Superman | July 11, 2025 | James Gunn writing and directing | David Corenswet is Clark, Rachel Brosnahan is Lois

[Macleod]

1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:

I wouldn’t expect this to make as much as The Batman by simple virtue of the fact that Bats has consistently been the bigger moneymaker since the late 80s. I don’t know why people keep forgetting this. Just because Superman is seen as the quintessential superhero doesn’t mean he’s the one who sells the best. 

 

He sells best...on TV, over the years, that's for sure.  

[Spidey Freak]

6 hours ago, Macleod said:

He sells best...on TV, over the years, that's for sure.  

 

TBF that's only because they don't want to dilute the Bat brand by making a live action Batman show (at least not one that's about Adult Batman anyway). Ditto for Marvel and all of its most popular characters.

 

Which brings us to another problem... has Superman become TOO MUCH of a TV IP to be enjoyed on the big screen for most people?

Edited December 31, 2023 by Spidey Freak

[dallas]

3 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

Which brings us to another problem... has Superman become TOO MUCH of a TV IP to be enjoyed on the big screen for most people?

No. 

[TMP]

50 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

Which brings us to another problem... has Superman become TOO MUCH of a TV IP to be enjoyed on the big screen for most people?

This would imply real people watched Superman & Lois

[JustLurking]

Just now, TMP said:

This would imply real people watched Superman & Lois

I thought that referred to Smallville lol

[TMP]

15 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

I thought that referred to Smallville lol

If no-one saw the current TV take on Superman then he’s not “too TV” for the movies lol

[WittyUsername]

Do people actually like Smallville for non-ironic/non-nostalgic reasons? I thought everyone agreed that it’s a schlocky teen drama that was a product of its era. 

[Belakor]

1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:

Do people actually like Smallville for non-ironic/non-nostalgic reasons? I thought everyone agreed that it’s a schlocky teen drama that was a product of its era. 

It was a decent show, it respected the characters and the source material. it felt a little too repetitive with that " kryptonite freak of the week" but I recently watched it again and it's good.

[Belakor]

12 hours ago, WittyUsername said:

I wouldn’t expect this to make as much as The Batman by simple virtue of the fact that Bats has consistently been the bigger moneymaker since the late 80s. I don’t know why people keep forgetting this. Just because Superman is seen as the quintessential superhero doesn’t mean he’s the one who sells the best. 

I think you are right, Gunn thinks Superman it's going to carry the franchise but in reality Batman has been carrying the whole of DC since the 90's. Even if his movie, by some miracle, is good I don't expect big numbers like Batman in the Nolan era.

Having 2 versions of Batman at the same time it's going to bite back, no doubt. 

[dallas]

7 minutes ago, Belakor said:

I think you are right, Gunn thinks Superman it's going to carry the franchise but in reality Batman has been carrying the whole of DC since the 90's. Even if his movie, by some miracle, is good I don't expect big numbers like Batman in the Nolan era.

Having 2 versions of Batman at the same time it's going to bite back, no doubt. 

I mean, at its current state, of course Superman isn't going to carry the franchise. But that's what they're setting up to happen. They want Supes to be the linchpin of the universe which is why they're getting ahead on Legacy and the Supergirl movie

[ChipDerby]

6 hours ago, TMP said:

This would imply real people watched Superman & Lois

Superman & Lois is great. But it will have only 4 seasons before this comes out, and has less viewers than The Flash did. So it won't suffer that fate. Really hoping Gunn takes bits of how that Superman is written, and how My Adventures with Superman is written.

[Spidey Freak]

16 hours ago, TMP said:

This would imply real people watched Superman & Lois

 

Apparently it's the most popular of the post-Flash CW DC shows. Not AS popular as The Flash as ChipDerby said but there's general awareness. I didn't mean just S&L though but DC's tendency in letting the CW keep mining Superman post-Smallville, as opposed to how reluctant they are to have a show with an adult Batman (they have done Kid Bruce with Gotham but it's not the same obviously).

 

16 hours ago, JustLurking said:

I thought that referred to Smallville lol

 

Serious question to anyone who was following BO back then, DID Smallville in any way impact Superman Returns reception? Were there Welling fans vs. Routh fans flame wars? Did anyone consider it as a factor for SR underperformance coz ppl were comparing the two?  

[stephanos13]

New year, we should get many casting announcements this month.

 

Perry White, Superaman's parents or even new Supergirl (probably it's early for that but you never know).

[Human]

18 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

Serious question to anyone who was following BO back then, DID Smallville in any way impact Superman Returns reception? Were there Welling fans vs. Routh fans flame wars? Did anyone consider it as a factor for SR underperformance coz ppl were comparing the two?  

I was ten when it came out.  When I was 13 I started really using the internet, and I found many flame wars between them, but it was all after Superman Returns's theatrical run.  There was still talk of a Superman Returns 2 at the time, and that always resulted in huge flame wars on if that should be made or a Superman movie starring Welling.

 

It absolutely impacted the reception amongst Superman fans, since so many of us criticized the movie compared to Smallville.

 

I do not think it was so much compared to Smallville as much as it was compared very negatively to other recent superhero blockbusters like Spider-Man 2 and Batman Begins.

 

I was following and enjoying many flame wars between Man of Steel and Smallville always liking the comments saying Welling was better than Cavill and Smallville is so much better.

[Macleod]

41 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

Serious question to anyone who was following BO back then, DID Smallville in any way impact Superman Returns reception? Were there Welling fans vs. Routh fans flame wars? Did anyone consider it as a factor for SR underperformance coz ppl were comparing the two?  

 

Yes, to a degree.  But I don't know if it was a categorizable huge factor in the performance of the movie -- that was merely down to the malaise of the movie, itself...and of course the reaction to *that* costume...and its muddled story/continuity...

But @filmnerdjamie was around the original SuperHeroHype forums at that time, and can attest to some of this back-and-forth discussion amongst the fanbases... (I know you were there, but I'm not sure you know who *I* am...) 😉

 

Welling had previously met with Brett Ratner (a previous possible director for Superman) but was always adamant in published quotes that if the movie happened, SMALLVILLE would have to end.  And no one wanted that, as it was making too much money!  The show remained on the air five years post-Superman Returns, and remains a cultural touchstone of its time.  It is rumored to be one of the most monetarily successful TV shows Warner Bros. ever produced...possibly generating hundreds of millions of dollars in profit.  And yes, the show's legacy fanbase and support dwarfs Superman Returns by far.

 

Superman & Lois is clearly what Warner Bros./The CW wanted as a loose follow-up to SMALLVILLE; and (I have no evidence for this, but) I would be very surprised if they didn't offer it to Welling (Clark) and Durance (Lois) first.  But Welling is obviously not interested (his CRISIS cameo was very Meta in how it commented on his disinterest in playing into people's expectations -- and I loved it for that), and Durance obviously couldn't/wouldn't do it without Welling.  

 

To get this back to movies, it must also be reiterated that even Snyder understood SMALLVILLE's impact by inserting into MoS not only numerous nods to the show within the visual/story iconography...but even a couple of character actors who had appeared on the show, as well!

Edited January 1 by Macleod

[excel1]

Veteran of SuperHeroHype too and followed the development of the project which became Superman Returns closely from day 1 way back in 2002 when it first started off as Batman vs Superman and moved into solo film s. Smallville helped reinvigorate interest in the character but it was obvious from the JJ Abrams script onward that they would casting someone else as Superman in their feature film. There were absolutely some fans who initially wanted Tom Welling as Superman but they died down quickly when it was clear that the studio was going a different direction. Welling was in a couple of films ala Cheaper by the Dozen and The Fog remake but they clearly wanted someone who FILM audiences knew.

 

Mind you, fanboys were impossible to please back then. There was no consensus candidate for Superman as there had been for Batman where 90% of fanboys #1 pick was Christian Bale prior to his casting. If there was any unity, it was against certain people.

 

Josh Hartnett was clearly the studio and medias first choice but he made it clear early on it wasn't his thing, and at that point we got into some really crazy territory. See below for my memories of fan reactions on the web:

 

"Josh Hartnett? Did you not see Pearl Harbor? The wooden teeny bopper pretty boy can't play a serious role. He would be great for the trailer, terrible for the movie. Why is Hollywood trying so hard to make us like him?"

"Ashton Kutcher? Kelso is the absolute last person who would be Superman!! So goofy, the guy works in stoner comedies and nothing else, he is better served continuing to work with MTV on Punkd than playing a serious superhero"

"Paul Walker?! He makes Josh Hartnett and Ashton Kutcher look like Marlon Brando! And he is blonde!"

"Brendan Fraser? Would have been awesome 10 years ago, now he is old and looked puffy in Mummy 2"

"Jude Law could do it, but he would need to grow 6 inches, add 40 sounds of muscles, wear a wig, and change his accent. Other than that, yeah he could do it"

"Matt Bomer? Who?"

Edited January 1 by excel1

[ChipDerby]

Bro lmao come on

[Warmaster506]

This will be the most debated film of 2025. The mods will have to close it several times. 

[excel1]

43 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

Bro lmao come on

 

That is pretty much how it was 2002-2003. When Routh was finally cast in 2004, it shut everyone up because he looked the part, had a great vibe throughout the filming process, and nobody knew a thing about him. 

[ChipDerby]

1 hour ago, excel1 said:

 

That is pretty much how it was 2002-2003. When Routh was finally cast in 2004, it shut everyone up because he looked the part, had a great vibe throughout the filming process, and nobody knew a thing about him. 

Dude, Matt Bomer was never mentioned in that casting. Stop being dumb lol