Not So Fantastic Weekend Thread | MI5 29.4, F4 26.2, Gift 12, Ricki 7, Shaun 4, Vac 9, AM 7.8

[Chewy]

BKB has put more thought into this Fantastic Four reboot than me and my Aaron Rodgers biopic.

 

Dammit, I'm in trouble

 

Hear me out, here

 

Cast Olivia Munn as Olivia Munn

[MrPink]

Hear me out, here

 

Cast Olivia Munn as Olivia Munn

 

Is this you?

 

 

(Of course she'll be in it. Jake Gyllenhaal to star. Colin Farrell as Peyton Manning)

[Dementeleus]

The guy who played Hank Schrader from BREAKING BAD will be Ben Grimm/ The THING.. Sue Storm will be played by Emily Blunt.. Johnny Storm will be played by Jai Courtney(just to fuck with you bitches  ) and Reed Richards is played by Jason Bateman.. Oh and the villain is the MOLEMAN played by Danny DeVito.. Perfect Casting indeed..

Dean Norris wants more money than the studio's willing to pay for "a TV dude", Emily Blunt is unavailable because she's booked on another franchise (and after that, a potential Oscar contender), Jai Courtney is stoked but wants top dollar and billing since he headlined T5, and Jason Bateman looks like he'll sign. DeVito isn't sure he wants to play another comic book villain.

Your turn.

[terrestrial]

There's nothing particularly specifically ethnic in the concept of the Fantastic Four. The core of the concept is family -- however, an adapted family can work equally well as a traditional one and the same emotional and thematic content remains the same.

In the greater context of the Black Panther example, you're looking at someone whose identity is very much rooted within the specific African culture. You could attempt to cover that by claiming your white version would grow up there as well, except the cultural and historic context changes a great deal. But even more simply, you're talking about a character created to actually offer some diversity within the incredibly vanilla palette of superheroes. By whitewashing him, you're making a deliberate effort to undo that.

 

Fully agree

 

Only meant as general information in case you (or other) do not know:

economy system, education,... smugglers, reason why Stark's father only got his hands on little ammounts of vibranium (the reason for the isolation),...

The smugggler character Klaw only exist bcs of that as an example.

Black Panther = that's not only a character, but also the title, like King or Czar or...

10000 years of many many Black Panthers of the same royal family....

It would be a really major story change and not a simple character detail like siblings 'status'.

[Avatree]

And we can thank FOX for screwing the pooch with this lighting a fire under my ass to get me going on this.. It's a fucking travesty what they did.. Fuck FOX.. You want the X-MEN TV Show rights, you got it, but you're giving up the rights to the F4 back to MARVEL.. No Sony, No FOX Involvements.. NOTHING.. Let MARVEL stick it on the shelf for about 5 Years and start all over from scratch.. Use my Casting choices and stick to the origin and story in general.. Use the MOLEMAN as the Villain and it'll be a hit..

 

FUCK FOX FOR MAKING BKB ENVISAGE HIS OWN FANTASTIC FOUR! BURN FOX TO THE GROUND!

[TServo2049]

Undiscovered, the film MovieMan89 is talking about, lost theaters too.

Well yeah. It happened after Keith started; we can't expect him to update the smaller records

If a movie was not in over 600 theaters on weekend 2, it does not make that list. It was that way before Ray left, I think a lot of these lists may get auto-populated based on variables matching certain criteria. Since The D Train was not in over 600 theaters on its second weekend, it doesn't qualify.

[ACCA]

There's nothing particularly specifically ethnic in the concept of the Fantastic Four. The core of the concept is family -- however, an adapted family can work equally well as a traditional one and the same emotional and thematic content remains the same.

In the greater context of the Black Panther example, you're looking at someone whose identity is very much rooted within the specific African culture. You could attempt to cover that by claiming your white version would grow up there as well, except the cultural and historic context changes a great deal. But even more simply, you're talking about a character created to actually offer some diversity within the incredibly vanilla palette of superheroes. By whitewashing him, you're making a deliberate effort to undo that.

In terms of the specific Johnny Storm casting, it's extremely common for directors to re-hire actors they've worked with before and had a good relationship with. Given Trank's one previous experience, it makes complete sense he'd least at the chance of at least some continuity with his cast, moving forward into a bigger, more high-profile project. And Jordan hits all the marks you'd need for Johnny Storm: young, charismatic, engaging, etc. Claiming his casting is just to satisfy some sort of diversity quotient shows you just don't know much about how Hollywood works.

 

Yes you're right, aside from the source material, there is nothing deeply rooted into the story itself that requires the Storm family to only be white. However it would have made much more sense to make the WHOLE family black. In fact, one could argue it was "racist" to still keep Susan Storm white, since they had already made Franklin Storm and Johnny Storm black. The current modern Western culture we live in is very open to mixed-racial families, in some circles and local areas even encouraging it. So the choice of making Johnny Storm black and Franklin Storm black, but, keeping Susan Storm white was not one of racial equality, or even getting the best possible cast for the job. It was likely more so to fit into the current Western cultural trend of being open and accepting of mixed-racial families. Fox likely was trying to target all racial demographics, and at the same time be politically correct by tying in current Western cultural trends directly into the film. Additionally, anyone who reads about Trank, and has watched Chronicle, knows that he is a director who is in tune with the current cultural trends among Western young people. So it is very likely one reason Fox chose Trank for the project, was to be in tune to current cultural trends, and to generate some sort of similar appeal to young people as Chronicle had. This also would support why in the film, the Fantastic Four and Doom are quite younger than they mostly were depicted in the comics, as well as the previous films.

 

That's part of my point. Black Panther was a character specifically created for diversity, and I appreciate and celebrate that. I see nothing wrong with that, and my example was purely hypothetical. The key here being that Black Panther was an original, new character. There is no logical point to fundamentally change some aspect of an existing character, other than just for the sake of doing it in hopes of attracting new fans, etc. However this often can and does backfire as it alienates the existing loyal fans of such a character or property. So why not simply create more, new black and other diverse characters?

 

Yes fair point, and a point that happens to go directly against the idea that he was "the best actor for the job". You and I both know that's not really true. As you said, Jordan was hired mainly because Trank has familiarity with him, and not to mention is friendly with him. Yes he happens to hit some of the characterization marks for Johnny Storm. However they had to make changes from the source material in order to accommodate him in the film. His inclusion in the film, as mentioned above, also perfectly fits into the current Western culture and social thinking, and subsequently makes him a very politically correct addition due to the increased diversity of the cast. However, again as mentioned above, this alienates a large number of the existing Fantastic Four fanbase.

 

Here's an idea; what if they had cast Jordan as another character, possibly a new character, to fit into the film? That way Trank still would have been working with a familiar actor, the film still would have had diversity, and it still would have been a fairly politically correct look for Fox. Also importantly, such an option would not have alienated the existing Fantastic Four fanbase. So why was that option not taken?

 

I never claimed the casting of Jordan was just to satisfy a diversity quotient. As I explained right above, the diversity aspect was one of several reasons that Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm. That doesn't really make it a great casting choice however.

 

If the goal was to hire the best cast for the job, well we know that's not really true. Jordan was first and foremost cast because of familiarity and friendship with Trank. If one of the goals was racial diversity or equality, they didn't really succeed either, as I mentioned above. The entire Storm family could have been made black, which would have been a stronger example of diversity and equality in comparison to the rest of the white cast. If one of the goals was to appeal to current culture and young people, there are very clear indications that such an attempt was made with the film, however this failed as the film is almost universally disliked by all audiences.

 

Last but not least; neither you nor I know 100% what Fox was thinking, nor what Trank was thinking. However I have attempted to make some educated guesses, as explained above. Two things are crystal clear though about the film; the Fantastic Four fanbase was alienated, and the film has not connected with the general audience, who are giving the film poor ratings. I think it would be highly respectful and professional to keep out any personal comments out of discussion, in terms of knowing how Hollywood works. Unless you have worked for, currently work for, or have direct access to Fox studios, and can provide proof, as I said you don't know 100% what was going through the minds of Fox executives or Trank during the entire workflow and process for this film. I and others have made some educated guesses. Others here on the forum disagree. Personal comments are thrown around and the entire discussion degenerates.

 

If you or others disagree, it would be wise to simply keep this respectful and focus on the conversation, not on any personal comments. Or anyone who disagrees can simply let it be.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Null

[grey ghost]

There's nothing particularly specifically ethnic in the concept of the Fantastic Four. The core of the concept is family -- however, an adapted family can work equally well as a traditional one and the same emotional and thematic content remains the same.

In the greater context of the Black Panther example, you're looking at someone whose identity is very much rooted within the specific African culture. You could attempt to cover that by claiming your white version would grow up there as well, except the cultural and historic context changes a great deal. But even more simply, you're talking about a character created to actually offer some diversity within the incredibly vanilla palette of superheroes. By whitewashing him, you're making a deliberate effort to undo that.

In terms of the specific Johnny Storm casting, it's extremely common for directors to re-hire actors they've worked with before and had a good relationship with. Given Trank's one previous experience, it makes complete sense he'd least at the chance of at least some continuity with his cast, moving forward into a bigger, more high-profile project. And Jordan hits all the marks you'd need for Johnny Storm: young, charismatic, engaging, etc. Claiming his casting is just to satisfy some sort of diversity quotient shows you just don't know much about how Hollywood works.

Just because a director is comfortable aka buddies with an actor doesn't mean they're right for the part.

And saying we should ignore race changes simply because Jordan can be young and arrogant misses the point.

Making the Fantastic Four a non-traditional family deviates from the themes and symbolism.The FF are supposed to be a very traditional family who's powers and personalities are the main cause the friction and uncertainty their bond ultimately overcomes. Adding new family dynamics is actually distracting from the main focus which is how their personalities and powers, which mirror each other, cause dysfunction in an otherwise traditional family setting.

[Dementeleus]

Making the Fantastic Four a non-traditional family deviates from the themes and symbolism.

Are you kidding me?

[Chewy]

oh my god

[CoolioD1]

See, they love fantastic four so much they're doing reed richards impressions with all this reaching.

[Chewy]

I'm off to see this thing, hopefully I come back to find this thread nuked from existence

[miketheavenger]

[Mattrek]

What big stars are in SOC? How many white people still deeply care about NWA?

Just because there's a lot of no or little name actors doesn't mean anything. People know it's about Ice Cube, Dr. Dre and Eazy E. That will bring people to the theater regardless of who portrays then. As to your other question have you seen his newest album release sales? I'd say they're still well known and liked. Not to mention Twitter and facebook are plastered with this movie.

[CJohn]

People went full super retard again. Goddammit, 3 nights in a row now!

[Blankments]

The guy who played Hank Schrader from BREAKING BAD will be Ben Grimm/ The THING.. Sue Storm will be played by Emily Blunt.. Johnny Storm will be played by Jai Courtney(just to fuck with you bitches  ) and Reed Richards is played by Jason Bateman.. Oh and the villain is the MOLEMAN played by Danny DeVito.. Perfect Casting indeed..

I'll go with 

 

David Oyelowo as Reed Richards

Bill Hader as Johnny Storm

Naomi Harris as Sue Storm

Lebron James as Ben Grimm

Anil Kapur as the Moleman

 

Give me your franchise Fox.

[Hangman]

When's the last time a superhero movie didn't open at #1? GR2?

[K1stpierre]

This thread.....

[DAJK]

This thread

[TServo2049]

Kick-Ass 2. Though does that really count?

If you don't count Kick-Ass 2, you're absolutely right, we have not had a superhero CBM not open at #1 since TA1 opened. We haven't had a "Big Two" superhero movie really and truly flop in the 3 years and 3 months since TA1 (really, the 3.5 years since GR2) - until now. (Even TASM2 merely disappointed compared to studio expectations for the film and the future plans for the franchise, and didn't recoup all the money poured into it. It didn't actually TANK.)

Edited August 9, 2015 by TServo2049