Film Piracy (opinions and box office effect)

[GirafficPark]

1 minute ago, Lordmandeep said:

I think for the Revenant it for sure effect after market revenue.

 

Back in the days people would have rented the film or would have bought the DVD to check it out.

 

 

I think almost everyone I know watched the film pirated. 

I agree home cinema is suffering somewhat, but as i said before its largely due to the effect of crappy UX of DVD and BR. The problem is streams on netflix etc arent tracked properly, so all people see is falling disc sales, when they have been for many years anyway. Streaming sales need charting. DVD is worthless these days, and BR, if it wants to be taken seriously, needs to act like the premium format it claims to be, so NO ADS.

[Lordmandeep]

1 minute ago, EmpireCity said:

 

I'll gladly look like an asshole to shame thieving ass pirates.  

 

 

Your a good person and poster, but shaming people wont stop people from pirating. 

[GirafficPark]

1 minute ago, EmpireCity said:

 

I'll gladly look like an asshole to shame thieving ass pirates.  

lol good luck with that.

[Bishop54]

2 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

 

Even if that was true (which it very likely isn't), the only metric worth measuring on this is how much content you watched illegally that you didn't pay for.  Mine is zero and your's is more than zero, so you easily lose that one.  

Let me guess, because he pirates means you're financially better off than he is and allows you to pay for more content, right?

[filmlover]

20 hours ago, Grand Moff Tele said:

The entitlement here is astonishing. 

I feel like Tele has said all that needs to be said. Also, just goes to show that adults really are what's keeping the industry afloat these days, cause it sure isn't the younger demographic.

Edited January 1, 2017 by filmlover

[GirafficPark]

6 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

 

Even if that was true (which it very likely isn't), the only metric worth measuring on this is how much content you watched illegally that you didn't pay for.  Mine is zero and your's is more than zero, so you easily lose that one.  

Fine, but if i download a movie thats already on my subs no one loses anything. I do that sometimes because via a PC I have more control of the image and sound quality than I do via a usually cheaply made crappy STB. If you think that makes me a thief and immoral than keep thinking that, I dont care one little bit.

[Lordmandeep]

2 minutes ago, filmlover said:

I feel like Tele has said all that needs to be said. Also, just goes to show that adults really are what's keeping the industry afloat these days, cause it sure isn't the younger demographic.

 

 

What you talking about ...

 

they made Suicide Squad into a huge hit 

[The Dark Alfred]

There are various kinds of piracy. Morally flawed and oppressed countries with freedom somewhat limited like China with fake copies of films on the street and people seeking a product online is not the same ballpark. I love cinema, but I do download films that are not reachable for me. I think it's fantastic that I can watch a small indie film online that will never get anywhere near me. I despise people however who watch films available in cinema in inferior quality and dare to criticise the film. An average film like Everest is a brilliant cinematic experience while it might not be such fun at home.

 

I think the debate is decided based on one thing: quantity. If you happened to be downloading films every once in a while based on circumstances or even simply laziness: fine. If you ONLY stream and watch everything online then it is theft and surely to be punished. If anyone who downloaded The Dark Nnight instead of watching it in the cinema, put that eejit to prison, please. ?

[filmlover]

Just now, Lordmandeep said:

 

 

What you talking about ...

 

they made Suicide Squad into a huge hit 

4-quadrant movies are immune in this argument.

[EmpireCity]

It is also hilarious to see how bad the knowledge of the film business is as well.  Way to many people think movies are made to make revenue at the box office and then home video and it all stops there.  

 

Piracy affects everything.  Filmmakers and studios are eventually trying to get their product seen by as many people as possible.  The revenue stream isn't a 1 year thing, it is intended to last for decades if possible.  Many actors and others involved count on and live off residuals.  

 

It may not have some gargantuan impact on the box office, but it trickles down much more into the home video and then subsequent showings on premium movie channels and then cable.  Licensing to local stations.  Netflix and other streaming service licensing.  

 

Going around thinking you have some harmless act isn't true.  If everyone thought along these lines and had hard drives full of pirated content they could pull up at any moment, not much incentive to keep their cable subscription.  Cord cutting increases and now TNT can't bid at the rates they used to for content.  The price goes down and the thousands of people who worked to produce that entertainment suffer in the long run.  

[GirafficPark]

2 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

It is also hilarious to see how bad the knowledge of the film business is as well.  Way to many people think movies are made to make revenue at the box office and then home video and it all stops there.  

 

Piracy affects everything.  Filmmakers and studios are eventually trying to get their product seen by as many people as possible.  The revenue stream isn't a 1 year thing, it is intended to last for decades if possible.  Many actors and others involved count on and live off residuals.  

 

It may not have some gargantuan impact on the box office, but it trickles down much more into the home video and then subsequent showings on premium movie channels and then cable.  Licensing to local stations.  Netflix and other streaming service licensing.  

 

Going around thinking you have some harmless act isn't true.  If everyone thought along these lines and had hard drives full of pirated content they could pull up at any moment, not much incentive to keep their cable subscription.  Cord cutting increases and now TNT can't bid at the rates they used to for content.  The price goes down and the thousands of people who worked to produce that entertainment suffer in the long run.  

Then why do they make it so difficult, or even impossible to get older stuff? Movies are bad enough, but TV shows are often impossible. Kodi is often the only source possible at all, however much money you might be willing to throw at it.

 

Cable TV packages are dead or dying, not because of piracy, but because of on-demand, that doesnt make you pay for 150 channels of utter worthless junk just so you can see a few premium shows.

[The Panda]

I think trying to discuss the moral aspect of this is rather pointless.  People obviously have two rather strong opinions on it.  Weirdly I'm on the in-between, that I understand why people pirate, I just prefer not to do it myself and prefer to support theater going.  I don't really buy blu-rays though, anymore, pretty much I just stream my movies off of Netflix, HBOGo, or AmazonPrime (and rent off of Amazon).

 

I think there's a better discussion to be had on what effect does piracy play on the box office and home video (which my argument is minimal for box office, and most likely a decent bit for home video).  But most people seem to only really care about whether it's right or wrong.

[EmpireCity]

1 minute ago, GirafficPark said:

Then why do they make it so difficult, or even impossible to get older stuff? Movies are bad enough, but TV shows are often impossible. Kodi is often the only source possible at all, however much money you might be willing to throw at it.

 

Cable TV packages are dead or dying, not because of piracy, but because of on-demand, that doesnt make you pay for 150 channels of utter worthless junk just so you can see a few premium shows.

 

Not sure, but doesn't really matter as they own the product.  

 

Again your argument is nothing more than entitlement.  You're a cheeky asshole pirate who like to steal because you think you are special.  

[terrestrial]

I think a very high percentage of small / smaller actual (the last some years) films is available, if taking a bit of an effort.

Like searching in small countries in the EU, where the population is too small for an own translation or... often get a distributor for material not gotten out anywhere else on the world till that date. Or in Australia or... 

Then there is very often the possibility to get the films legally per the film-makers contact. And...

I start to get Empire's formulation, even if a bit too general for my taste.

Older films usually still have VHS... versions, even if not available as DVD for now. I still have a multi-format VHS for that (can US and Eutope, inlc. France and our PAL)

Yeah, so sometimes I have to wait 2 or 3 months for post if it is travelling per a very cheap way (ship) and based on weight (sometimes I buy a lot at once) a ship can be very much the only way to can afford the price for postage, especially if coming from the US the last few years (depends very much in which region the seller sits).

= in this case not meant as criticizing people who search for gems, but if they only do it as claimed by some, based on not finding their wished for material... there might be more ways than they are aware of.

[EmpireCity]

I will be honest and say that because I view movies as not only product but art, the only time I even sympathize with pirates is something like Harmy's Despecialized Editions.  

 

When someone released a piece of art and then decides decades later to shit all over it and change it, then I can at least see why people work to preserve the original art as it was shown.  

 

Haven't downloaded them ever, but can see on some level why millions of people have.  I'm going to wait until they finally release the unaltered content at some point but it fucking sucks not having the originals to own.  

[The Panda]

9 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

It is also hilarious to see how bad the knowledge of the film business is as well.  Way to many people think movies are made to make revenue at the box office and then home video and it all stops there.  

 

Piracy affects everything.  Filmmakers and studios are eventually trying to get their product seen by as many people as possible.  The revenue stream isn't a 1 year thing, it is intended to last for decades if possible.  Many actors and others involved count on and live off residuals.  

 

It may not have some gargantuan impact on the box office, but it trickles down much more into the home video and then subsequent showings on premium movie channels and then cable.  Licensing to local stations.  Netflix and other streaming service licensing.  

 

Going around thinking you have some harmless act isn't true.  If everyone thought along these lines and had hard drives full of pirated content they could pull up at any moment, not much incentive to keep their cable subscription.  Cord cutting increases and now TNT can't bid at the rates they used to for content.  The price goes down and the thousands of people who worked to produce that entertainment suffer in the long run.  

 

 

I'd be interested about seeing the data on it.  As my first thought was that the box office effect is likely minimal, but I did think there could be a potential impact on the home video market (including things like channel bids).

 

But I am still skeptical to blame it all on piracy.  TV Ratings in general have also been dropping, which is another potential reason for why those channels can no longer bid as much as they used to.  I'm also skeptical that piracy is the reason for the drop in cable subscriptions and overall TV ratings.  I think it's more likely that there are now cheaper alternatives to get your TV Shows (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, to an extent HBOGo), and so with as costly as Cable subscriptions are, people are cutting them in favor of those cheaper programs.  Piracy, would likely have some effect, but not to the extent where I think studios can change the blame to it.  

 

Anecdotally, I know a few people that pirate, but on the other hand nearly everybody I know uses a program like Netflix, Hulu, HBOGo, Amazon Prime, etc.  

 

Piracy is a blackmarket, and blackmarkets are always going to exist.  I think it's a hopeless effort to try and shame people out of using them.  It'd be much more efficient for a studio to adjust to the new state of the market (that is a streaming based one) when it comes to home video and TV and provide proper incentives to use them (such as providing more streaming options), then to try and blame piracy for their problems and shut their eyes and ears on why their channels aren't doing as well as they used to.

[DMan7]

I can't believe there are folks in here trying to justify stealing. What's next justifying killing?

[stuart360]

56 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

 

I'll gladly look like an asshole to shame thieving ass pirates.  

 

lol good luck with that one.

 

You're 50% of the way to your target though.

 

Edited January 1, 2017 by stuart360

[Bishop54]

8 minutes ago, DMan7 said:

I can't believe there are folks in here trying to justify stealing. What's next justifying killing?

Yes because the two are equivalent. 

[That One Girl]

Well, since you guys seem to think piracy has little to no effect, here's a little test for you!  The next time you pirate a movie, send a tweet to that director's Twitter saying you pirated that director's movie.  Hell, for good measure, if they don't respond, try sending emails or something to make it so they will respond to you.  Let's see if they appreciate their movie being stolen .