MyMovieCanBeatUpYourMovie Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, New Year New Panda said: The fact they keep arbitrarily changing their TOS, especially the clause about being able to fine you if you don’t see a movie in its full, is off-putting. Doesnt make me want subscribe A lot of that language in the TOS is just to discourage bad behavior, even if they have no way to actually enforce it. They don't track their users' phones using GPS. They have zero way of knowing if someone stays for a movie or not. That language is in there because they don't want people buying a movie ticket because it includes free parking at a mall, or going every day and buying a ticket just to get the rewards bonuses from the theater chain. The service costs $9.95 a month and you can cancel at any time. How much of a risk is that really? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpot Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 51 minutes ago, MyMovieCanBeatUpYourMovie said: A lot of that language in the TOS is just to discourage bad behavior, even if they have no way to actually enforce it. They don't track their users' phones using GPS. They have zero way of knowing if someone stays for a movie or not. That language is in there because they don't want people buying a movie ticket because it includes free parking at a mall, or going every day and buying a ticket just to get the rewards bonuses from the theater chain. The service costs $9.95 a month and you can cancel at any time. How much of a risk is that really? What makes you think they don't/won't? They do track gps to know how far you are from a theater for check in and can certainly determine when you are no longer close enough to check in anymore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestranger Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 The paranoia on here about MoivePass is bizarre. They are literally paying for you to watch movies. Enjoy why it lasts. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMisfits Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) https://www.wired.com/story/moviepass-second-act/ Lots of actual info from the company itself...some of the more interesting pieces for box office... 1. They expect subscribers to TRIPLE by the end of this summer - so 1.5M to 4.5M (if you use the Jan 9 numbers - could be more if there were using numbers as of today) - not sure if they are planning another "push", but that would be sure to bump the BO of movies in that term... 2. They expect to more limit theaters and/or showtimes and/or actual movies at the "non-cooperative" chains if you read between the lines...AMC was mentioned (and Regal was also, for not commenting)...interestingly, Cinemark was not until the end...not big enough to matter as much as the other 2? Or not as against the company? And if a movie got excluded from the pass, that's gonna really hurt the bottom line for that movie as time goes on...maybe not the big, big movies, but the next tier down could get killed... 3. As of now, they estimate they have at least SEVEN months of cash flow, to cover super user use...they really are gonna play the "get on board" or "mutually assured destruction" game, b/c a full year of "cheap" movies will be an enormously tough habit to break...and since they will probably represent 15-20% of frequent movie goers by the end of summer (when in theory the money could run out)...the industry itself would probably crack if Moviepass ends without an immediate and equivalent replacement... Gonna be crazy times for the next 7 months, whether you love or hate Moviepass...it literally will have the ability to have a bigger and bigger effect (both positively and negatively) on movie box office, individual and chain theater profitability, etc... PS - I ignored some of their "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" ideas, but if you want more of all the different plans - read the article:)... PPS - This felt like a "throw down" article...and if I'm AMC, I'd be speeding up my own subscription service asap, b/c it sounds like the 10 theaters dropped were only the opening gambit in hardball from Moviepass...and at AMC, you may not be able to weather a serious hit any better than Moviepass can, b/c you don't have speculative investors pouring money into you at will... Edited January 30, 2018 by TwoMisfits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfHan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, TwoMisfits said: They expect subscribers to TRIPLE by the end of this summer They won't even be around this summer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMisfits Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, WrathOfHan said: They won't even be around this summer 7 months of free cash gets them through August with no change... And on this board, we've been hearing they wouldn't make it through Thanksgiving, and then not through Xmas, and then not through this month...continuing to bet against them seems like a fool's bet at this point until the spigot of financing shuts off... I appreciated the focus on Spotify in the article comments as another total money-losing subscription service that took over the entire music listening industry...and it's still money-losing...and no one bets against it, or even really goes against it anymore...instead, they adapt to working with it... Edited January 30, 2018 by TwoMisfits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnack Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said: I appreciated the focus on Spotify in the article as another total money-losing subscription service that took over the entire music listening industry...and it's still money-losing...and no one bets against it, or even really goes against it anymore...instead, they adapt to working with it... Those who can (like Adele, West-JayZ-Beyonce, etc.. Tidal experiment, Swift for a while) still do some sales only windows going on I think and I imagine they fight for exclusive better deal on the platform for themselves. But yeah they have little choice because of the piracy able to reproduce at 100% the experience of buying and listening to mp3 or an album being too strong, they have resigned to loose more than half their revenues. 18 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said: the industry itself would probably crack if Moviepass ends without an immediate and equivalent replacement... Clearly their plans, trying to squeeze/force industry to give them share of the revenues directly from the theater, without taking any care of the studios business into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattW Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Ok so earlier I said it looked like a gym membership model but that wasn't right. Here's my updated take on things: So their model is to gain subscribers at a loss, then use a large base to negotiate better deals with exhibitors on tickets and a cut of concessions and other in-theater revenue (if there is any other). It's a combination of 'unionizing' movie-goers and then using them to shake down theater owners, so that in the end theaters get fewer dollar per movie watched, and moviepass gets a cut of other theater revenue, both of which lead to exhibitors making less money. Of course moviepass wants to argue that it is increasing admissions overall, but right now I'd guess that it's unlikely to be enough to make up the difference to theaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnack Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, MattW said: It's a combination of 'unionizing' movie-goers and then using them to shake down theater owners, so that in the end theaters get fewer dollar per movie watched, and moviepass gets a cut of other theater revenue, both of which lead to exhibitors making less money. Of course moviepass wants to argue that it is increasing admissions overall, but right now I'd guess that it's unlikely to be enough to make up the difference to theaters. It could work, make the theatrical pie bigger so that even with the share going to Moviepass you end up winning (concession sales I imagine being an important part, but someone going to theater many time a month and because it is cheap I will imagine will be the kind to rarely buy any of those cost more than tickets food&beverage). Maybe it can work for both MP and theater (again I imagine they would have preferred their own and exclusive pass at a bit higher price, not having to share anything with MP), The looser here could be all the future windows/netflix of the world and the studios. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniNate Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Spotify has basically become "Too big to fail" before it's actually succeeded. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnack Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, tribefan695 said: Spotify has basically become "Too big to fail" before it's actually succeeded. Wonder if Twitter, Amazon and a list of other co. are not also in that group. Destroying all competition for long enough will almost certainly make them able win and really big at some point I imagine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovieMan89 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Will be interesting to see if there's a big spike in subscriptions over the next two weeks with Black Panther coming up. Appeal for the movie is massive and for those who live in bigger cities, signing up for MP just for the month even if BP is the only thing they plan to see would already save them money. Of course then they find out about the 9 month restriction period if they cancel and would likely end up just keeping it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireCity Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 11 hours ago, TwoMisfits said: 7 months of free cash gets them through August with no change... And on this board, we've been hearing they wouldn't make it through Thanksgiving, and then not through Xmas, and then not through this month...continuing to bet against them seems like a fool's bet at this point until the spigot of financing shuts off... I appreciated the focus on Spotify in the article comments as another total money-losing subscription service that took over the entire music listening industry...and it's still money-losing...and no one bets against it, or even really goes against it anymore...instead, they adapt to working with it... If they say they have 7 months of free cash that means they likely have half that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1stpierre Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Ah, speaking of the devil: I just ordered my moviepass yesterday as a friend told me about it. So it's 9.95 a month and you can see unlimited amount of movies? Seems to good to be true and a huge cost saver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK007 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 13 hours ago, Barnack said: Wonder if Twitter, Amazon and a list of other co. are not also in that group. Destroying all competition for long enough will almost certainly make them able win and really big at some point I imagine. At what point does the backlash begin though? The dam will break because there is no actual innovation but a lot of scum practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMisfits Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, BK007 said: At what point does the backlash begin though? The dam will break because there is no actual innovation but a lot of scum practices. Millenials seem to love the subscription concept, so all of these plans have catered to their desires...they want to pay one price and get what they want when they want it...how can there be backlash when you are giving them exactly what they want? The folks who may not love it are getting older and older, and the next generation is just getting used to it as the "reality", so why would they rock the boat? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnack Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, BK007 said: At what point does the backlash begin though? The dam will break because there is no actual innovation but a lot of scum practices. Backlash from the industry started at day one I think. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXT Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 19 hours ago, TwoMisfits said: https://www.wired.com/story/moviepass-second-act/ Lots of actual info from the company itself...some of the more interesting pieces for box office... 1. They expect subscribers to TRIPLE by the end of this summer - so 1.5M to 4.5M (if you use the Jan 9 numbers - could be more if there were using numbers as of today) - not sure if they are planning another "push", but that would be sure to bump the BO of movies in that term... 2. They expect to more limit theaters and/or showtimes and/or actual movies at the "non-cooperative" chains if you read between the lines...AMC was mentioned (and Regal was also, for not commenting)...interestingly, Cinemark was not until the end...not big enough to matter as much as the other 2? Or not as against the company? And if a movie got excluded from the pass, that's gonna really hurt the bottom line for that movie as time goes on...maybe not the big, big movies, but the next tier down could get killed... 3. As of now, they estimate they have at least SEVEN months of cash flow, to cover super user use...they really are gonna play the "get on board" or "mutually assured destruction" game, b/c a full year of "cheap" movies will be an enormously tough habit to break...and since they will probably represent 15-20% of frequent movie goers by the end of summer (when in theory the money could run out)...the industry itself would probably crack if Moviepass ends without an immediate and equivalent replacement... Gonna be crazy times for the next 7 months, whether you love or hate Moviepass...it literally will have the ability to have a bigger and bigger effect (both positively and negatively) on movie box office, individual and chain theater profitability, etc... PS - I ignored some of their "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" ideas, but if you want more of all the different plans - read the article:)... PPS - This felt like a "throw down" article...and if I'm AMC, I'd be speeding up my own subscription service asap, b/c it sounds like the 10 theaters dropped were only the opening gambit in hardball from Moviepass...and at AMC, you may not be able to weather a serious hit any better than Moviepass can, b/c you don't have speculative investors pouring money into you at will... There is no "Mutually Assured Destruction". Moviepass with 5 million subscribers and no cash is not a threat to studios/exhibitors. People are not going to change their movie watching habits just because they have used moviepass for a few months. I was actually rooting for MP but it is becoming more and more obvious everyday that they don't have a sound business plan. For example, they want a share of the exhibition pie but they are not bringing anything (capital, investment) to the table. They are also growing too fast for their own good. Unless they can demonstrate that a few months of free movies has changed their customers' movie watching habits, why would you negotiate with them if you are an exhibitor ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpot Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Here's what confuses me: Moviepass adds an amount to your card equal to the cost of a regular ticket at the theater you check in at. After that you can spend that amount on literally anything at that theater. -They don't know if you actually see a movie. This is highly relevant to a theater that hopes to make concession money off taken seats...no chance if the person never enters the theater. -If you do see a movie they don't really know which one you saw - only the one you clicked on. This is of course highly relevant to studio deals. I, Tonya's distributor isn't going to want to take Moviepass' word for it and kick them back money on sales that weren't necessarily even for their movie. When Moviepass put out a "contest" to enter you to win something if you get a ticket to I, Tonya this led to plenty of users clicking I, Tonya and then showing up at the kiosk and getting a ticket for another movie. -They don't know if you bought concessions so they can't prove that they are increasing concession purchases. Moviepass is using being a plain old debit card to its advantage, but it has major disadvantages when it comes to them trying to sell data. They don't really have any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Panda Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I get Spotify and Amazon’s model. They’re attempting to force themselves into a “natural monopoly/oligopoly” position (yes I know they’re not a monopoly, they have competitors). In a sense they continue to produce, thinking their industry has high economies of scale, and once they get large enough they’ll be able to make a profit and be to far ahead for any competitors to reach them due to the high costs of the industry. The difference is Spotify and Amazon require investing and building an infrastructure for the company. Signing on artists to put their music on your app. Amazon, building the whole prime network, which isn’t currently making them much money, but they’re now so big (with too many other companies and consumers relying on them) that they have a safety net from failing. MoviePass is not the same in that regard. It’s s high cost environment, but they aren’t investing in anything, and they don’t really have leverage, even when subs grow. Their model can be replicated much easier, and for much less cost, by the actual theater chains themselves. Essentially it’d be like a company that you sub to and they’ll pay to download x amount of songs for you everyday. If that company tries to leverage its way into getting better deals from the actual sellers (say, iTunes), there’s nothing stopping that seller from simply offering their own sub service which gives you access to their songs, and cut out the middleman. It’s the main reason I don’t think MP will be sustainable with this model. It’s easy to compare them to Spotify or Netflix, but the nature of their industry is much different and their future competitors (theaters) have much more effective cost structures so even if movie theater subs from MP take off, theaters can simply offer their own sub plans with a much lower cost structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
