The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Porthos]

1 minute ago, cooldude97 said:

i think the bigger question is less what Marvel and feige are going to do but more what is Disney going to force them to do 

 

I think the real question is: Is anything that happens here so unexpected as to change decisions already made?

 

Personally, I would say: No.

 

[Issac Newton]

[MysteryMovieMogul]

4 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

I think the real question is: Is anything that happens here so unexpected as to change decisions already made?

 

Personally, I would say: No.

 

The way Disney/Marvel are treating this movie, I'm pretty sure they're already a step ahead behind the scenes.

[John Marston]

38 minutes ago, TheFlatLannister said:

DCEU is a dead franchise though and I think that played a MASSIVE role in Shazam 2 and Flash mega bombs. 
 

 

The Flash had a creepy weirdo criminal as the lead and Shazam 2 had an annoying Adam Sandler wannabe. I think having someone that people actually like will play to

Aquaman 2’s benefit 

[Mulder]

2 hours ago, CoolioD1 said:

i don't care i'm just making fun of the ones still around. 

Don't care if I get warned for this but dude you've been miserable on here for like a decade, just move on to somewhere else already instead of this schtick which got old years ago.

[HummingLemon496]

All we know for sure is that unless China goes nuts, these two will be the highest grossing CBMs of 2023

[Liiviig 1998]

20 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

No, they aren't. Mods don't have any reason to stop people from being mean to a franchise that has grossed $30b globally and had an unprecedented stranglehold on the culture and on moviegoing habits. You, and all other MCU fans on here can always just ignore people who you hate/disagree with instead of arguing 24/7.

This thread has just been about" MCU is dead /not dead discourse ,talking about it's decline , captain marvel ,

 

Yeah there have been some wierd takes thrown around but otherwise this is the most "BOT " type thread ever

 

Not as bad as even the flash thread IMO.

 

Conversation around MCU was fine and dandy when franchise was doing great and most were happy with the product but now that's not the case so we definitely seeing more criticisms and that will come with it's negative parts and yeah and those who were not fans will definitely chime in. Basically " there is  blood in the water"

 

Tracking numbers have just been bad from the get go. Anyone entering  and expecting a slither of positive discourse was kidding themselves.

 

 

We may cry " MCU/SW hate etc.... and yeah it's there but when you look through all that most  underlying occurrence is that those franchises  in question are not in exactly in the most healthy condition which creates this kind of discourse.

 

 

 

 

[WorkingonaName]

If this opens lower then the Flash then maybe Keaton walkups did count for something. 

[abracadabra1998]

12 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

This thread has just been about" MCU is dead /not dead discourse ,talking about it's decline , captain marvel ,

 

Yeah there have been some wierd takes thrown around but otherwise this is the most "BOT " type thread ever

 

Not as bad as even the flash thread IMO.

 

Conversation around MCU was fine and dandy when franchise was doing great and most were happy with the product but now that's not the case so we definitely seeing more criticisms and that will come with it's negative parts and yeah and those who were not fans will definitely chime in. Basically " there is  blood in the water"

 

Tracking numbers have just been bad from the get go. Anyone entering  and expecting a slither of positive discourse was kidding themselves.

 

 

We may cry " MCU/SW hate etc.... and yeah it's there but when you look through all that most  underlying occurrence is that those franchises  in question are not in exactly in the most healthy condition which creates this kind of discourse.

 

 

 

 

To be fair, there’s only so much we can talk about, but yes, it amazes me how we can fill out over 200 hundred pages of posts that really boil down to the same old dialogue. I find it kinda boring

[Porthos]

6 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

The way Disney/Marvel are treating this movie, I'm pretty sure they're already a step ahead behind the scenes.

 

Gonna pivot to something that I was kinda thinking of posting post-release.  But maybe I'll never make it, so might as well post it while the moment fancies. 

 

For me, even if it ends tomorrow, there will forever be an asterisk next to The Marvels because of the dual strikes.

 

I was thinking to myself a couple of days ago that one striking difference between The Marvels and other MCU film releases this year, never mind other years?  The fabled Marvel Hype Machine was never turned on.  One thing Marvel, the production company that is, has excelled at for years is marketing its product and getting people interested in upcoming events.

 

I don't think they suddenly forgot how to do that.

 

But think about it.  No presence at Comic Con.  Nearly nothing at Destination D23.  No special Disney Plus day.  Very very little actual Brand Promotion for months. At least compared to prior years.

 

I tend to think the strikes have/had a great deal to do with the lack of hype.  Folks may disagree and that's fine.  Not being a Marvel fan I don't feel like going on about it.  But also not being a Marvel fan, I've been able to watch them from the sidelines and note what they've been doing right all these years, and what felt like was missing this year.

 

Then there's the elephant in the room: Jonathan Majors.

 

I, again personally, think a great deal of excitement for the MCU in general evaporated (or at least got depressed) when the Majors scandal came to light.  Whether or not it is at the forefront of folks minds right now isn't really the point. 

 

Now don't get me wrong. I tend to think no matter what happens when all is said and done, The Marvels was always destined to drop quite a bit from the first.  But I earlier said there was a perfect storm of events this year, and the above are only some of said events.

 

Plenty of other factors at play here, yes.  But gonna die on the hill that the Marvel Hype Machine was never turned on for this film and that matters, at least around the edges.

 

NB:  The Marvel Hype Machine might not have turned on also because the MCU *IS* in transition behind the scenes.  Kinda hard to Hype Up The Future, when the Future Is Being Re-Written.

 

In fact, perhaps the surest sign that the MCU is already in flux and has been for months, besides, you know, literally all the reporting in the trades, is the silence from the the Marvel Hype Machine.

 

The dog that didn't bark, as it were.

[ZattMurdock]

1 hour ago, Arlborn said:

This is precisely the type of thing that left untreated will fester and slowly erode a community like this one, driving away members and productive engagement.

 

It should be relatively easy to track down which members made their way in here from that place, if the willingness to do so is there. But I'm honestly not sure anymore if the willingness to do it is even there at the moment. I suspect it might not be.

 

If a message board has a very bad understanding of how to foster productive engagement, it dies. As a MCU fan, I don’t think any of us are asking for ‘safe spaces", but the bare absolutely minimum that it doesn’t revolve on people hating the film ‘ franchise 24/7 and mocking the MCU fans for not being around as much. If me or anyone said most of the stuff that is said here on different threads, I’d be rightfully threadbanned / suspended. 
 

No one is asking for special treatment, just that there is a glaring double standard going on. It didn’t start with The Marvels, but I do think that the end of the Franchise Wars thread did actual more harm than good for BOT’s healthy discourse as a whole. 
 

34 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

The purpose of fan wars is kinda moot when all of the teams are losing… 

If every thread has become a  fan wars shitfest, then have they even gone away actually? As far as I can tell, The Marvels thread is shock full with the same kind of vitriol you’d see on any MCU thread that came before, or Disney’s for that matter.
 

You can’t have a thriving message board based on who hates more x franchise. It was the reason those flame war threads were created to begin with, to help isolate poisoning the well discourse. Interestingly, and to agree with @Porthos point, success breeds contempt, and what is happening now is kinda no different than what old timers like me or @druv10 that doesn’t even post here haven’t seen before. The difference between now and then isn’t really  a “Marvel’s decline", but unlike other franchises, BOT has become more and more aggressively unwelcome to MCU fans.

 

I sincerely have lost any will insisting on being an active BOT member, I just reacted to the post about the lack of the MCU fans presence here because I feel like it’s kind of a shame that this place has become a place where people will make their personalities hating x thing. As an active member here for the last 11 years, I talked about all kinds of films, from blockbusters to indies, and I kinda wish the new gen could see what BOT was when it was at its prime. 
 

TL;DR: Users that have their whole online personality on BOT based on hating The Marvels shouldn’t be posting here to begin with, hence why when there was a Flame Wars thread still around things were at least somewhat more controlled. If BOT is content on providing material to incels to make threads about  us talking here, if that’s the current state of BOT, I’d wager all of us have better use of our time than keyboard warrioring here.

 

51 minutes ago, Kon said:

 

I mean, forums turning into "franchise wars shit" are a pretty common thing. I assure you a lot of people would feel alienated from this forum if the moderators are extremely protective with this movie too. There is no perfect way the forum can handle it.

 

I've understand it's tiresome to hear constantly criticism/hate towards something you like. I have been in many forums where people hate something that I like (for example, I like The Last Jedi), but you have to learn to accept it or stay away from a forum.

This would be fair if this was the case on the several different film threads here. It isn’t. It’s not okay to mock fans of any franchises or films in my book, but I think the question here shouldn’t be why MCU fans don’t post here more often, but why people that clearly hate and mock those who actually enjoy these films get so much free reign to begin with. 
 

54 minutes ago, SaltyPistola said:

This has to be a joke post... 

 

- Unnecessary comment about her looks? ✅

- "sHe's ToO sErIoUs"? ✅

- The mandatory Ripley and Sarah Conner defense? ✅ 

 

"Lara Croft, Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Selene, Black Widow and so on have been loved by almost entire audiences. These are female characters that got full franchises around them, which means they were and they are loved." Yeah geez I wonder why the internet and misogynistic chuds go easy on these characters. Real mystery there.  

 

 

 Good and underrated post.

[John Marston]

9 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

Gonna pivot to something that I was kinda thinking of posting post-release.  But maybe I'll never make it, so might as well post it while the moment fancies. 

 

For me, even if it ends tomorrow, there will forever be an asterisk next to The Marvels because of the dual strikes.

 

I was thinking to myself a couple of days ago that one striking difference between The Marvels and other MCU film releases this year, never mind other years?  The fabled Marvel Hype Machine was never turned on.  One thing Marvel, the production company that is, has excelled at for years is marketing its product and getting people interested in upcoming events.

 

I don't think they suddenly forgot how to do that.

 

But think about it.  No presence at Comic Con.  Nearly nothing at Destination D23.  No special Disney Plus day.  Very very little actual Brand Promotion for months. At least compared to prior years.

 

I tend to think the strikes have/had a great deal to do with the lack of hype.  Folks may disagree and that's fine.  Not being a Marvel fan I don't feel like going on about it.  But also not being a Marvel fan, I've been able to watch them from the sidelines and note what they've been doing right all these years, and what felt like was missing this year.

 

Then there's the elephant in the room: Jonathan Majors.

 

I, again personally, think a great deal of excitement for the MCU in general evaporated (or at least got depressed) when the Majors scandal came to light.  Whether or not it is at the forefront of folks minds right now isn't really the point. 

 

Now don't get me wrong. I tend to think no matter what happens when all is said and done, The Marvels was always destined to drop quite a bit from the first.  But I earlier said there was a perfect storm of events this year, and the above are only some of said events.

 

Plenty of other factors at play here, yes.  But gonna die on the hill that the Marvel Hype Machine was never turned on for this film and that matters, at least around the edges.

 

NB:  The Marvel Hype Machine might not have turned on also because the MCU *IS* in transition behind the scenes.  Kinda hard to Hype Up The Future, when the Future Is Being Re-Written.

 

In fact, perhaps the surest sign that the MCU is already in flux and has been for months, besides, you know, literally all the reporting in the trades, is the silence from the the Marvel Hype Machine.

 

The dog that didn't bark, as it were.

 

 

I feel like interest completely died probably as soon as the plot was announced, You needed to Civil War this movie badly and they didn't 

Edited November 1, 2023 by John Marston

[Bob Train]

7 minutes ago, Porthos said:

I was thinking to myself a couple of days ago that one striking difference between The Marvels and other MCU film releases this year, never mind other years?  The fabled Marvel Hype Machine was never turned on.  One thing Marvel, the production company that is, has excelled at for years is marketing its product and getting people interested in upcoming events.

They succeeded in making people aware of The Marvels, as is shown by metrics like Quorum and Fandango polls. They completely failed at making people interested in it. 

[Liiviig 1998]

28 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

Gonna pivot to something that I was kinda thinking of posting post-release.  But maybe I'll never make it, so might as well post it while the moment fancies. 

 

For me, even if it ends tomorrow, there will forever be an asterisk next to The Marvels because of the dual strikes.

 

I was thinking to myself a couple of days ago that one striking difference between The Marvels and other MCU film releases this year, never mind other years?  The fabled Marvel Hype Machine was never turned on.  One thing Marvel, the production company that is, has excelled at for years is marketing its product and getting people interested in upcoming events.

 

I don't think they suddenly forgot how to do that.

 

But think about it.  No presence at Comic Con.  Nearly nothing at Destination D23.  No special Disney Plus day.  Very very little actual Brand Promotion for months. At least compared to prior years.

 

I tend to think the strikes have/had a great deal to do with the lack of hype.  Folks may disagree and that's fine.  Not being a Marvel fan I don't feel like going on about it.  But also not being a Marvel fan, I've been able to watch them from the sidelines and note what they've been doing right all these years, and what felt like was missing this year.

 

Then there's the elephant in the room: Jonathan Majors.

 

I, again personally, think a great deal of excitement for the MCU in general evaporated (or at least got depressed) when the Majors scandal came to light.  Whether or not it is at the forefront of folks minds right now isn't really the point. 

 

Now don't get me wrong. I tend to think no matter what happens when all is said and done, The Marvels was always destined to drop quite a bit from the first.  But I earlier said there was a perfect storm of events this year, and the above are only some of said events.

 

Plenty of other factors at play here, yes.  But gonna die on the hill that the Marvel Hype Machine was never turned on for this film and that matters, at least around the edges.

 

NB:  The Marvel Hype Machine might not have turned on also because the MCU *IS* in transition behind the scenes.  Kinda hard to Hype Up The Future, when the Future Is Being Re-Written.

 

In fact, perhaps the surest sign that the MCU is already in flux and has been for months, besides, you know, literally all the reporting in the trades, is the silence from the the Marvel Hype Machine.

 

The dog that didn't bark, as it were.

Think GA doesn't much care about this Knitty gritties around MCU being in flux. They just don't care about the marvels for now .

 

 Think marvels is in this weird reverse goldilocks zone were  audience interest is low  and everything else not working in it's favor .  it's sort of paying most  for the sins of the current saga .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Liiviig 1998

[Porthos]

4 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

They succeeded in making people aware of The Marvels, as is shown by metrics like Quorum and Fandango polls. They completely failed at making people interested in it. 

 

20 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Now don't get me wrong. I tend to think no matter what happens when all is said and done, The Marvels was always destined to drop quite a bit from the first.  But I earlier said there was a perfect storm of events this year, and the above are only some of said events.

 

Plenty of other factors at play here, yes.  But gonna die on the hill that the Marvel Hype Machine was never turned on for this film and that matters, at least around the edges.

 

As @TheFlatLannister said you don't get sub-10m previews (and even if there is a dramatic reversal, I think sub-10m in previews is 99% certain right now) with just a lack of (star) promotion.

 

On the other hand, you don't get sub-10m in previews without A LOT GOING WRONG. 

 

What I was drawing attention was to some of the other things that have been going wrong since

 

1] More than enough pages in this thread have been wasted been spent on those topics.

 

and

 

2] I really don't care about those discussions and wanted to bring something new/different to the table. 

 

Better that than Discussion Number 456,127 about Brie Larson and Internet Chuds and many of the other topics that have caused this thread to have "Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter" slapped on it as a Warning Label. 

[Eric Prime]

Things will be locked for a while, as it’s clear there are tensions that are beyond the movie and MCU. I will unlock this thread in a few hours. I also wanted to say things to certain members.

 

@CoolioD1 we don’t need this trolling and baiting towards Marvel fans. Posts like these are uncalled for and only instigate fanboy war nonsense. Do this again and a threadban will come your way.

 

@Arlborn please note that posters who are problematic for whatever reason are getting treatments and are getting punished, including that boxoff53 fellow, who was given warning points for their behavior. The staff are trying their absolute best to make sure such posters are taken care of swiftly and properly punished. We are not perfect at this, and we are not going to censor everything that some posters may not like, but we are trying to take care of it. Reporting such posters is also very beneficial and helpful for us.

 

@ZattMurdock let me be here to say the staff is sorry that we have made this place hostile towards MCU fans. We do not intend for that, especially since a majority of the staff are huge MCU fans in the first place. Intentions however don’t equal actions, and we can and should do better. So thank you for bringing this to our attention.

 

However, that doesn’t absolve everything you have done, nor mean we will not hold you accountable for your actions. I understand you are frustrated with people’s dismissiveness of the MCU and the Marvels. It sucks to see something you love get dunked on, no matter how popular and loved it is. But people are allowed to be critical and negative and have a right to do so. And attacking other users, derailing threads, and starting flame wars is not something we need.

 

This isn’t just something you are doing of course. And we have and are willing to stand up and defend you and other MCU fans here if we believe you are getting mistreated and attacked. We have even been called Disney shills in the past. And I know you have good intentions. But intentions do not equal actions, like I said.

 

And as a message to everybody, if you feel you or others are being mistreated or abused in some way, please report the offending posts. The staff can’t be here at all times, and reports guarantee that somebody on the staff will at least look at it. It’s better than criticizing people who are only doing this as volunteer work.

 

If anybody wants to discuss things I said here with me privately, please PM me. And to @ZattMurdock, because I know you have had problems before, you have to delete messages in your inbox, and then you will be able to PM me. Your inbox is full.

[Eric Prime]

Time has passed, so now the thread is open. Now as a reminder to everybody, this is just a silly kids movie. It bombing or succeeding won't change your life in any way, you're not seeing any of that money anyways, and if you don't like a conversation, just ignore it and move on. You aren't being forced against your will to respond in this thread, so why do it if you don't like how things are going?

[Hatebox]

7 hours ago, CoolioD1 said:

The fanboy wars thread brought on a bad sort who'd spread to all the other threads anyway imo. I don't think this thread is as disastrous as others are hyping it up as. It'd be more fun if it was but we're all being a little dramatic here.

this forum has always had a weird, naval-gazing habit of claiming threads are so much worse than they are. Never understood it. 
 

the projections for the film are bad, and people are talking about that. It’s all been perfectly civil.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Hatebox

[Torontofan]

15 minutes ago, Hatebox said:

this forum has always had a weird, naval-gazing habit of claiming threads are so much worse than they are. Never understood it. 
 

the projections for the film are bad, and people are talking about that. It’s all been perfectly civil.

 

 

This is civil compared to 2017 18 talks about star wars movies on here 😆🤣😂😹😆

[eddyxx]

So umm…I just caught up with the thread.