Steve Rogers Birthday Bash Weekend Thread | 5-Day #s: Indy 83.4, Elemental 18, Spidey 17.65, Sound of Freedom 14.2, No Hard Feelings 11.3

[JustLurking]

1 hour ago, Willowra said:

What RJ wanted to setup through TLJ & what JJ wanted to setup through TFA? Can you elaborate?

I could, but we have kind of been asked to stop twice, so...

[Issac Newton]

8 minutes ago, Gavin Feng said:

no more daily restriction? I think I'm back too.

Yeah I am thinking the same.

[XXR vs XXR]

3 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

I could, but we have kind of been asked to stop twice, so...

 

You're fine, as long as Cap's post is followed. 

[Torontofan]

Free reign to talk about TLJ? hmmm

 

(starts creating 4 hr youtube video called "The last Jedi - A Critical Essay)

 

lol

Edited July 2, 2023 by Torontofan

[Deep Wang]

TLJ is a masterpiece.

[JustLurking]

1 hour ago, Willowra said:

What RJ wanted to setup through TLJ & what JJ wanted to setup through TFA? Can you elaborate?

Alrighty then

 

Just off the top of my memory, the knights of ren, rey's vision, the big mystery about her parents are all things which TLJ either subverts entirely or throws out altogether. Finn's character arc from TFA is thrown out for some sort of soft reset of his character, the conflict about being a former stormtrooper doesn't matter anymore either. The entirety of TFA had the purpose of finding Luke on both sides of the conflict, so TLJ promptly decides that Luke is useless

 

Then TROS promptly does the same to TLJ by completely ignoring the "broom" kid tease (or really just the message that the force can touch anyone in general), basically nuking rose as a character, kylo being setup as the villain, bringing back the chosen one narrative that TLJ decided to do away with etc.

 

Not all of these are bad, but all of these very much remind you that this trilogy was made by people that wanted to take it in diametrically different directions, and neither one wanted the other's vision to stick or be followed upon, which made for a ridiculous chimera of a trilogy.

 

I'm not here to argue about which vision should've been the one to be used (I'm not a huge sw fan regardless and I don't think highly of any of the ST films), but the whole thing would've benefit if they'd atleast settled on one of them before moving forward

Edited July 2, 2023 by JustLurking

[PlatnumRoyce]

1 hour ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Wait poeple have a problem with force touching anyone!!!

This movie Definitely undermines the force but that's not one of the ways.

"Put that one under the dumb criticisms section Imo.

Quote

Fuck your Chosen One obsession,

Those aren't the same claims. The message of TLJ really is "Fuck your Chosen One obsession," because Rey, as a character...never expresses the idea that she's a chosen one or that her parents were heroes. She's not Taran the assistant pig keeper from the Chronicles of Prydan. It's a meta critique that completely ails because  The Force Awakens explicitly tells us Rey is a "chosen one" whose parentage is a smoking gun that will pay off in later films via the force visions inserted in the middle of the film.  

 

That can be a fun story but it's not the story they were setting up which makes it come off as mean spirited. Is Rian Johnson even right that a problem with star wars is that people think the force can only touch special bloodlines? For all of the prequel's flaws, did people think of the new jedis as coming from special bloodlines or being recipient of something like a Hogwarts letter? Is the random kid anakin murders really that different from the street sweeper? 

[KGPatt2]

The Force Awakens was fine. It was safe and easy. I wasn't impressed with how much of a remake it seemed like.

 

The Last Jedi is so up and down. Fantastic ideas and I respect the subversion at times, but he took it a little too far with Luke and the Canto Bite scenes just grind the movie to a halt. Rose is unbearable. Not the actress's fault, but her character just sucks. This was a movie I loved at first, but gets worse with each viewing. I enjoyed the Snoke twist and Kylo being set up as irredeemable/the big bad.

 

We were robbed of Duel of the Fates. The Rise of Skywalker is straight garbage. #NotMyEpisodeIX

[TomThomas]

27 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:

TLJ is a masterpiece.

Ratio

[Liiviig 1998]

7 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

Those aren't the same claims. The message of TLJ really is "Fuck your Chosen One obsession," because Rey, as a character...never expresses the idea that she's a chosen one or that her parents were heroes. She's not Taran the assistant pig keeper from the Chronicles of Prydan. It's a meta critique that completely ails because  The Force Awakens explicitly tells us Rey is a "chosen one" whose parentage is a smoking gun that will pay off in later films via the force visions inserted in the middle of the film.  

 

That can be a fun story but it's not the story they were setting up which makes it come off as mean spirited. Is Rian Johnson even right that a problem with star wars is that people think the force can only touch special bloodlines? For all of the prequel's flaws, did people think of the new jedis as coming from special bloodlines or being recipient of something like a Hogwarts letter? Is the random kid anakin murders really that different from the street sweeper? 

For me whether she is chosen one or not didn't really matter to me.  No that heavy into starwars lore accept what is set up in the films.

 

It's in the prequels where we really get this whole chosen one vibe and midichlorians.

 

Even don't think Luke is exactly reffered to as a  chosen one in the OT.

 

Even watching clone wars just assumed Jedi order were those who had the ability in them .

 

Force is definitely a bloodline and family related I agree but did Rey really need to be a somebody . Her parents can still be nobodies and have midichlorians in their bloodline.

 

Skywalker line is force sensitive and the previous saga being the Skywalker saga " the saga was told from their perspective which created some misconceptions.

 

Lots of the Jedi are probably "nobodies"

 

So personally when some say TLJ diversified  the force and made it for everyone ,don't find it that profound. Force is already is diversified in lots of race it's just and it tends to be hereditary and hey that's how biology works and it's that simple. 

 

Midichlorians shit introduced in TPM just needlessly complicates shit.

 

 

 

 

[Napoleon]

To me, The Force Awakens is a rehash of the original sort of like these new Scream movies have kind of remade the first two. It didn't feel pointless, it felt at the same time something comfortable but also something fresh with a promising future. It was a great theater experience, and a perfect blockbuster/franchise movie.

[lor15]

Curious to see #2 and #3 on Saturday and Sunday 🤓

[ThomasNicole]

TLJ is the best SW movie, yeah, surpassed ESB

 

good morning

[Godzilla]

3 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

TLJ is the best SW movie, yeah, surpassed ESB

 

good morning

[Kon]

2 hours ago, Hatebox said:

Lucasfilm not having a plan for the trilogy when they gave Johnson the reigns is completely insane and as a non SW fan I’m glad he exposed their poor management in the most hilarious way. “Fuck your Chosen One obsession, the Force can touch anyone, etc…”

 

Honestly, I've never understand why "the Force can touch anyone" idea in TLJ was considered new or polarizing.

 

I mean, we've already seen that "the Force can touch inyone" in the Prequel Trilogy.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Kon

[filmnerdjamie]

Feels less like a movie and more a conversation starter nowadays.

 

Regardless of how one felt (loved it, hated it, somewhere in between), there's no denying that it was the exact moment the tide turned against Disney/Lucasfilm in the eyes of fans and the bad taste left in the general public's mouths.

 

I, myself, didn't like The Last Jedi. It was nowhere near as clever or convention-flipping as it thought it was. Saw it at an IMAX in the state capitol opening day with my lovely life wife and haven't seen it since. Nor have I thought about it outside of the division it created. I just... moved on.

 

*SHRUGS*

[Eric Lasagna]

1 hour ago, Cap said:

Admin Post:

 

Mornin’ All. Please disregard @Eric Jones previous moderation posts. As long as everyone is behaving, and not calling each other names, please proceed however, you see fit.

 

If you don’t wanna have this conversation again, I suggest putting the people on mute, or just scrolling by.

This is gonna be a long day 🙃 

[Liiviig 1998]

24 minutes ago, KGPatt2 said:

The Last Jedi is so up and down. Fantastic ideas and I respect the subversion at times, but he took it a little too far with Luke and the Canto Bite scenes just grind the movie to a halt. Rose is unbearable. Not the actress's fault, but her character just sucks. This was a movie I loved at first, but gets worse with each viewing. I enjoyed the Snoke twist and Kylo being set up as irredeemable/the big bad

Now where I have issues with TLJ subversion. 

The whole relationship between Kylo and Rey so Rian can basically do a reverse Rotj . While Rotj Luke trying to turn vadar made sense .

Vadar is Luke's father and years have passed in film since Luke got the reveal and one can at least infer he has had time to come to that choice to save vadar.

Kylo just killed han solo who was like a father figure to her and he hates his guts at the start of the film and in the space of a film she believes she can  change Kylo she barely knows!! and they try to ship them together and whatever relationship where she had actual sensible chemistry with Finn is just pushed away.

 

To make it worse the whole scene in the throne room is basically a rehash  of Rotj and why ? Because Rian is solely obsessed with deconstructing that scene in ROTJ and has little much do with telling a new story .

 

The most interesting scene in the movie is when Kylo tells her about her parentage and tries to turn her to his side by inticing her they can form something new . That should have been the subversion IMO instead of playing opposite day with ROTJ.

 

The movie should have stopped there . First order fleet half destroyed , rebels have escaped, Luke is alive and returning to the resistance . Instead we got Kylo reverting to his old crybaby attitude again . Sure he became the main villain but who Rey has already outsmarted twice ... no tention..

 

Him turning Rey would have made him more forbidable and absolutely taken the ST in an interesting direction 

Instead we desend into the battle at not hoth which has considerable dumb and contradictory moments.

[Zakiyyah6]

9 minutes ago, filmnerdjamie said:

Feels less like a movie and more a conversation starter nowadays.

 

Regardless of how one felt (loved it, hated it, somewhere in between), there's no denying that it was the exact moment the tide turned against Disney/Lucasfilm in the eyes of fans and the bad taste left in the general public's mouths.

 

I, myself, didn't like The Last Jedi. It was nowhere near as clever or convention-flipping as it thought it was. Saw it at an IMAX in the state capitol opening day with my lovely life wife and haven't seen it since. Nor have I thought about it outside of the division it created. I just... moved on.

 

*SHRUGS*

My controversial opinion is that The Last Jedi was the sequel trilogy's Batman v Superman. I think it is a much better film overall but like that film it spends more time trying (and failing) to subvert expectations that just being an enjoyable film takes too much of a backseat. 

[Flopped]

17 minutes ago, filmnerdjamie said:

Feels less like a movie and more a conversation starter nowadays.

 

Regardless of how one felt (loved it, hated it, somewhere in between), there's no denying that it was the exact moment the tide turned against Disney/Lucasfilm in the eyes of fans and the bad taste left in the general public's mouths.

 

I, myself, didn't like The Last Jedi. It was nowhere near as clever or convention-flipping as it thought it was. Saw it at an IMAX in the state capitol opening day with my lovely life wife and haven't seen it since. Nor have I thought about it outside of the division it created. I just... moved on.

 

*SHRUGS*

 

Those cardboard Star Wars "movies" that Disney makes aren't interesting enough to love or hate. You just see them and then they're gone, like food that passes through you and gets flushed down the toilet.