American Sniper (2014)

[Phil in the Blank]

I guess we needed to show Kyle pissing on iraqi children he had randomly shot to satisfy your bloodlust against America hey Lisa?

[luna]

lmao. i didn't say it had to show everything, it should just be, y'know, a little less flag-waving pro-american evil foreigners bullshit. that's all.

 

the best film about the holocaust didn't show anything at all. it's called SHOAH.

[Phil in the Blank]

well, that's what the film does. it labels all iraqis as evil.

No it doesnt. The movie shows Kyle and a few other soilders holding these views. It doesnt try to justify it or say they were right in that thinking. Merely that this was their view.

Honestly if you are someone who sees this movie as an 'Iraq apology movie' OR as a 'Kyle is a flawless hero movie', that reflects much more on your particular poltical leanings than on any actual politics found in the movie imo.

[ShouldIBeHere]

No it doesnt. The movie shows Kyle and a few other soilders holding these views. It doesnt try to justify it or say they were right in that thinking. Merely that this was their view.

 

 

Yeah... but I didn't think the movie "worked" sufficently with these views... I don't know. I think I am pretty close to lisa's view here.

[Asyulus]

I changed my rating. Now a-

[luna]

No it doesnt. The movie shows Kyle and a few other soilders holding these views. It doesnt try to justify it or say they were right in that thinking. Merely that this was their view.

Honestly if you are someone who sees this movie as an 'Iraq apology movie' OR as a 'Kyle is a flawless hero movie', that reflects much more on your particular poltical leanings than on any actual politics found in the movie imo.

of course it reflects my political leanings. if anyone imagines they watch a film without any preconceived bias, they're deluding themselves. there is no such thing as 'neutral' or 'unbiased'.

[Jessie]

Because that was about the fairy tale known as finding Osama Bin Laden and killing him.  Surprised there was no porridge at his house, or frogs that turn into princes or bread crumbs...

 

also it didn't smash the box office. If AS earned 30m over the weekend, people here wouldn't go so hard on it.

[Jessie]

well, that's what the film does. it labels all iraqis as evil.

 

yeah that kid getting drilled in the head was an evil little bastard wasn't he?

[luna]

yeah, okay - it didn't paint the children as evil as the adults. good god, do i really need to qualify my statement with that nonsense?

[Noctis]

yeah that kid getting drilled in the head was an evil little bastard wasn't he?

You're grasping at straws. Here's the problem:

Iraq was an illegal war and America invaded because of artificial facts (WMD, hiding terrorist leaders)

Nearly a million have died due to the invasion (the vast vast majority of them innocent)

I have no problem with the film showing the atrocities committed by some Iraqi militants. I'm glad they did. What they utterly failed to do was to also reflect the mistakes and horrors the American military committed.

And my biggest qualm...turning a raving lunatic that lusted over murder into a person he was not. And then show the goddamn ridiculous tribute towards him at the end was just lol-worthy.

So much fabrication.

[Asyulus]

So many positive reviews. Im going to watch this tommorow at 6 oclock

[JohnnyGossamer]

You're grasping at straws. Here's the problem:

Iraq was an illegal war and America invaded because of artificial facts (WMD, hiding terrorist leaders)

Nearly a million have died due to the invasion (the vast vast majority of them innocent)

I have no problem with the film showing the atrocities committed by some Iraqi militants. I'm glad they did. What they utterly failed to do was to also reflect the mistakes and horrors the American military committed.

And my biggest qualm...turning a raving lunatic that lusted over murder into a person he was not. And then show the goddamn ridiculous tribute towards him at the end was just lol-worthy.

So much fabrication.

Yeah. That's my issue too. Politics aside... As character study, it's not very compelling. As a movie, it's sloppily cut together. As a narrative, it's duller than most and it's about a sniper that killed 160+... That unforgivable. Loads of war movies come out. Some suck. Some are great. Others in between. This one kind of sucked.

[dashrendar44]

And my biggest qualm...turning a raving lunatic that lusted over murder into a person he was not. And then show the goddamn ridiculous tribute towards him at the end was just lol-worthy.

So much fabrication.

 

And that has a name, it's called "propaganda" wherein glossing over the troubling and negative aspects of the subject at hand to portray an imaginary version of reality in order to create or fuel into some collective ideal's cliche narrative (the sanctification of a heroic martyr fighting evil at the gates) relating to US geopolitical history.

 

What I think is that Eastwood and especially Bradley Cooper didn't really care about depicting the real Chris Kyle-the man in all his shades. No, they cherrypicked what they want (the sniper's mythical legend, the family man) and left all the controversial aspects in the proceedings to fit a classic Hollywood narrative in terms of biopic and american war movies specifically "the tough killing machine with a heart of gold torn between heroic duty and the burden of life far from his loved ones".

 

The rumors about Cooper crafting himself the movie in editing room don't surprise me. He wanted that juicy Oscar-bait role and from the sound of it, he tooled Chris Kyle into Tom Hanks in SPR, the humble ole all-american hero doing the job while missing homeland. No wonder everybody loves him in that movie as it fuels that fantasy.

Edited January 23, 2015 by dashrendar44

[CJohn]

He had a love for killing because of what he went through.  None of us can relate to what he went through.  None of us have had to make those kinds of decisions.  None of us have seen a kid killed with a drill, up close.  None of us have seen their friends, brothers, killed and have their brains blown out all over the wall.  None of us have walked into a room and found a man hanging in chains with his feet cut off.  

 

Sure you can be disgusted at what he says, but this film at least gives you a window into what he saw, felt and eventually turned into.  Of course he thinks they are all savages, look at what he had to endure.  As many of you know, I'm not the biggest supporter of the military, the official story of 9/11 and so on.  But this guy did what was asked of him and he did it to defend his nation and his friends.  Is it really a shock that he had a penchant for killing?  That's what they made him.  They asked him to be a killer and now some of you are shocked and disgusted that he isn't a great person?  How can you go to war and see what he did and then come out well adjusted on the other side?  Until we walk in his shoes, I don't think we can know how he felt.  

 

This is one of the best films I've ever seen and Cooper gave one of the best performances I've ever seen.  Miller was stunning as well.  This was a total anti-war film and there were a lot of scenes and a lot of lines that went to great lengths to be anti-war.  This might on the surface look like blind jingoism but it's not.  Even the bad guy sniper was shown to be a parallel of Kyle.  He too had a family and he too felt like he was protecting his comrades.  They both had a job to do.  

 

As for Cooper's performance, his coming undone was unbelievably frightening.  The few quiet and not so subtle scenes of his PTSD were riveting.  The tire drill, his furtive look at a truck with a middle eastern man passing him, the dog, all shows him becoming more and more imbalanced from the war.  And yet he felt that he had to do what he did because it was his duty.  I'm sure the book makes him out to be much more egotistical and maniacal than the film but as I said, unless you can see what he sees and have to make the decisions that he's made, there's no way for us to know how he feels or how we would react in the same way.

 

For example, I've been driving bus for 8 months (he was in Iraq for about 4 years) and already I'm getting preconceived notions towards certain types of people.  It's typically the same people that try to get on for free, show me phony or expired transfers or just plain try to sneak on for free.  So there are times when I become jaded and I have to remind myself that it's wrong to be that way.  That's from minor issues.  He had to deal with kids getting killed with drills and men getting their feet cut off, of course he was going to be adversely affected by it.

 

I originally thought Birdman might be the best film of the year of the films nominated, but that has changed.  American Sniper is the best of the bunch and in my opinion, it's one of the best I've ever seen.

 

10/10

So much this.

Edited January 24, 2015 by CJohn

[Noctis]

Don't you all love it when mods hide from the facts and support each other like sheep?

[Claire of Themyscira]

There was more torture in Zero Dark Thirty, in which no-one complained.

Are you stupid?

 

ZDT had a ton of controversy because of the torture.

 

Did y'all like miss that? Y'all damn selective then.

[Claire of Themyscira]

Not surprised seeing some of y'all blind to this.

 

Y'all always seemed problematic. Well, guess what?

 

You fucking are.

[baumer]

Don't you all love it when mods hide from the facts and support each other like sheep?

 

Don't you love it when you make no sense at all what so ever?

[baumer]

Not surprised seeing some of y'all blind to this.

 

Y'all always seemed problematic. Well, guess what?

 

You fucking are.

 

You can think a movie is great without thinking the person is also great.  This is a film.  It's an art form.  You don't have to agree with it to accept that it's a well made film on every level.

[Lordmandeep]

Eastwood pretty much made a film for the audience then making his opinion or message.

 

Many Directors these days have fallen into a trap of making films that has to send their own message or opinion and "I hope audiences like it". That is why I think so many recent well made films fail to resonate among a wide audience especially last year. 

 

He made a film he knew Audiences would love because he made a film that was different from the other films on the modern wars.

He did not make a true film, but he made a film audiences would have liked and it was successful.

 

If he made a film as his opinion or version of what he thinks about Iraq and Kyle, then it would have not been anywhere near as successful.

 

That is why people are angry at the film as it was made for the audiences and they love it.... 

Edited January 24, 2015 by Lordmandeep