American Sniper (2014)

[Lordmandeep]

Hmm... Come on, everyone, this movie really isn't nearly compelling enough to prompt this kind of discussion.

 

 

Imo it is a film that after a long time warrents some kind of discussion as its about war and person many see as a hero or villain and it will become one of the most successful award and adult dramas of recent times. 

[Lordmandeep]

Also I think it is very elitist and downright snobbish for us to be sitting behind computers being individuals who have never put our lives on line for anything, to poke fun of and dismiss members of the military if they thought going to Iraq was about "defending America".

 

 

 

They were lied to by the media and their leaders and President. 

 

Do not blame the solider, blame the US  government for Iraq. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Lordmandeep

[luna]

1. triumph of the will

2. american sniper

3. 300

4. life is beautiful

5. the adventures of huckleberry finn (1960)

[Ozymandias]

1. triumph of the will

2. american sniper

3. 300

4. life is beautiful

5. the adventures of huckleberry finn (1960)

 

I'm surprised Birth of A Nation isn't on that list. 

[DAR]

Huck Finn?

[Noctis]

Oh, you can blame a lot of soldiers. A lot of them tortured innocent civilians...and a group of soldiers raped a 14 year old girl and then proceeded to murder her entire family.

Nah, many soldiers are to be blamed.

[Lordmandeep]

It was a small % of soldiers and no doubt their actions tarnished the reputation of the army and that of the US government. 

 

 

 

However, It appears to me that it is okay to paint everyone with the same brush  if the people you are generalizing are part of something you do not agree with. 

 

Good to know, however a point to be noticed that if f I or others on here applied such thinking to other groups, they would be labeled many terrible things by the same users who think that way. 

 

 

It just seems many of you have an ax to grind against the US government and rightly so, but lets go after the real targets please. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Lordmandeep

[Noctis]

Don't twist my words and be an idiot. Of course the majority of soldiers wouldn't do that. OBVIOUSLY.

But a shitload of soldiers either participated in torture or saw and did nothing, among other things.

Of course it's not all. What are you, five? That I need to state the blindingly obvious?

Every single soldier is different. But for goodness' sake, do some research and read about the endless war crimes and human rights abuses the US soldiers did in Iraq. There was a huge amount that knew and did/said nothing.

[Noctis]

Do I also need to make it clear to you that the Iraqi Security Forces were appalling and that they committed unbelievable torture?

But we're discussing soldiers now. There are good and bad. And a lot of them were thrown into a terrible situation, but that does not excuse some of their behavior and actions.

[Lordmandeep]

Do I also need to make it clear to you that the Iraqi Security Forces were appalling and that they committed unbelievable torture?

But we're discussing soldiers now. There are good and bad. And a lot of them were thrown into a terrible situation, but that does not excuse some of their behavior and actions.

 

 

 

The issue is the solider shown in the film known to have done war crimes, or was he simply not a nice guy who really good at what he did and did not feel bad for doing so. 

[Noctis]

The answer is in his book. Clearly stated.

[luna]

I'm surprised Birth of A Nation isn't on that list. 

 

i haven't seen it yet, but i expect it to replace AMERICAN SNIPER in the #2 spot.

[luna]

Huck Finn?

michael curtiz's version. the most condescending treatment of black people i've ever seen in a film.

[Warhorse]

Don't twist my words and be an idiot. Of course the majority of soldiers wouldn't do that. OBVIOUSLY.

But a shitload of soldiers either participated in torture or saw and did nothing, among other things.

Of course it's not all. What are you, five? That I need to state the blindingly obvious?

Every single soldier is different. But for goodness' sake, do some research and read about the endless war crimes and human rights abuses the US soldiers did in Iraq. There was a huge amount that knew and did/said nothing.

Come on now, lets not act like US is the only one that has soldiers being accused  of warcrimes. [ur]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2627228/BREAKING-NEWS-British-soldiers-investigated-International-Criminal-Court-claims-committed-war-crimes-Iraq.html

[Dark Jedi Master 007]

I would give it a solid B/B+ after my first viewing. There were many emotional moments (particularly the ones detailing the strain of Kyle's service on his marriage and the effects of PTSD) , but a few dull moments as well (all of the training scenes in the beginning/the final shootout, which was too long for my taste).

As for the controversy surrounding the film, I have a lot of thoughts. Basically, I think the film makes it clear that the experience of war/the actions taken during war are not something to celebrate. Yet, at the same time, even though it doesn't endorse Kyle's actions, I do think it holds him up as a hero (the end credits confirm it). I wish the film did a better job articulating why Kyle should be idolized even if his actions shouldn't, without really explaining that distinction, it makes its message rather murky.

As for how the film treats Iraqis: I think it tries to humanize the Iraqis a little bit (for example, the Iraqi sniper is seen with a wife and kid and you also get that poor family that's being terrorized by the butcher). However, I think it does a mediocre job in this department. Sure, some Iraqis are humanized, but most are treated as 1-D people who serve merely to be shot down. Moreover, even when the film does try to humanize certain people, it doesn't really do it in a detailed way. (The scene with the Iraqi sniper and his wife/kid lasts for about 5 seconds). Ultimately, I wish Eastwood had done a better job here (he should take notes from Paul Greengrass's work in Captain Phillips).







 

[Jessie]

jessie's comment about military psychopaths is probably the only true thing he's ever said, though for completely wrong reasons. and for every crazy person who loves killing people, there are another ten that think killing people, whilst not enjoyable, is honourable in the name of sucking up to your precious little nation-state.

 

i'm going to see this just to see how fucking awful it is.

 

From Chris Kyles mouth about navy seals

 

'Well I mean if you’re out there, you definitely don’t want to be just sitting there. I mean same reason when I said I was lucky to be in combat. When you sign up, you sign up because you want to go to war. Or at least the SEALS, we do. We don’t sign up to go be the best just so we can sit at home, walk around the bars and say, Hey, look at me, I’ve got a trident on. I’m a SEAL. We do it because we want to go to war. And then when you go to war you don’t want to just sit there. I mean what’s the point of deploying if you’re just going to sit there? You want to actually do your job or bring me home. So when your guy, it’s his turn to be on the gun, he wants to do his job. I mean we know the whole country was full of bad guys, and then our guys are constantly getting killed day after day, so we want to do something to make it safer.'

[Hatebox]

Also I think it is very elitist and downright snobbish for us to be sitting behind computers being individuals who have never put our lives on line for anything, to poke fun of and dismiss members of the military if they thought going to Iraq was about "defending America".

 

I've met a few military personnel at social gatherings and, if they're willing to talk about it, am always interested to find out about their experiences. But the hero-worship of them is bizarre to me. That sentiment has always been there a little in the UK but it seems to be pathologically ingrained in the US psyche. Who knows, maybe by the next century we'll all be over it.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Hatebox

[JohnnyGossamer]

Imo it is a film that after a long time warrents some kind of discussion as its about war and person many see as a hero or villain and it will become one of the most successful award and adult dramas of recent times. 

I don't know. Given the liberties taken with the source, I don't view this one much differently than Lone Survivor, Fury, Act Of Valor, Zero Dark Thirty, Homeland, Hurt Locker, Body Of Lies, Black Hawk Down, etc. There's a whole jumble of 'em. Some of 'em, I like very much. Others, as in Fury, Lone and Sniper, left me bored and checking my watch. I wish they'd have portrayed him exactly as his book did, supposed untruths included, would've allowed for a far more compelling insight in my view. Doesn't help that Eastwood hasn't directed a great flick in almost 10 years either. Lacked his usual conviction and I'd say it's maybe his least interesting film since Changeling. And, damn, he gave us Flags and Letters about a decade ago. Letters pandered some but was brutal, honest, angry, solemn and I bought it. If only this one moved me like that one did...

 

For me, it's closest cousin in terms of unexpected success and a wave of persons venturing to theaters that usually don't is Gibson's Passion. But, I find Mel's direction far more fun to watch than anything in Sniper. Hell, if only Mel could've directed?

Edited January 21, 2015 by JohnnyGossamer

[baumer]

Don't twist my words and be an idiot. Of course the majority of soldiers wouldn't do that. OBVIOUSLY.

But a shitload of soldiers either participated in torture or saw and did nothing, among other things.

Of course it's not all. What are you, five? That I need to state the blindingly obvious?

Every single soldier is different. But for goodness' sake, do some research and read about the endless war crimes and human rights abuses the US soldiers did in Iraq. There was a huge amount that knew and did/said nothing.

 

Dude, you are really going to have to change your choice of words.  You've been getting away with this for a long time.  Calling people idiots and morons and such is not accepted here.  Not sure why you feel the need to talk this way to other members.  But if you like being a member here I suggest you tone it down.  

[Lordmandeep]

I think blind worship of soldiers is wrong.

In Canada we are not over fond of any war but even reserved Canadians (compares to Americans) can become quite patriotic about soldiers.

Furthermore look at the reaction of the beheaded soldier in UK and you will see hero worship of soldiers is not only America specific.

point being is that on a forum with mostly younger demo groups we can get by attacking soldiers. However dare you to try that in general society.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Lordmandeep