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Dementeleus

ROGUE ONE WEEKEND THREAD | Actuals R1 155.09m, Moana 12.7m, OCP 8.58m, CB 7.1m, FB 5.07m

By Dementeleus, in Numbers and Data

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JonathanLB Box Office Gold

JonathanLB

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, ThePanda A Star Wars Story said:

 

Not always.  However, they seem to rarely go with a blockbuster for the actual win.

 

Id still say Arrival is the frontrunner, though.

 

Wait for what?! Most overrated pile of crap? No Arrival wasn't THE most overrated that's Manchester, but Arrival is a close second. My god what a stupid movie lol

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junkshop36 Blockbuster

junkshop36

Posted
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50 minutes ago, Highever said:

 

They both had their piloting accomplishments. In addition to Rey's piloting, she was a linguist *droid and wookiespeak*, a duelist *never handled a lightsaber*, a telekinetic practitioner *never done it* etc... 

 

In canon, if Rey were to have done what she had without training, she has far surpassed Luke. Heir to the Jedi portrays Luke struggling with abilities Rey picked up in moments. 

 

I'm cool with her being able to understand droid speak as she had clearly spent most of her life around droids and probably figured out how to decipher the general language. Ezra, on Rebels, can understand what Chopper is saying. Same for being able to understand Wookie. 

 

She clearly has some combat skills as established early on when she uses her staff to fend off those thugs attempting to steal BB-8. No reason she couldn't pick up the lightsaber and be able to swing it around enough to at least attempt to keep off an attacker. Which is exactly what she's doing against Kylo. She spends the most of the fight running, swinging and jabbing at him just keep him off her. It's not until he mentions the Force that she  calms herself, lets the force in and kicks his ass; which is no different than Luke suddenly using the Force to perfectly fire and guide the torpedoes down the exhaust port.

 

I sort off agree on the last one though. I took it not so much that she force pulled the saber to her but that the saber went to her, like how it was apparently calling out to her earleir in the movie. That's how I took it and it worked for me.

 

Who she is and why she's as powerful as she is will be explained through the coarse of the next two movies. 

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DealWithIt Indie Sensation

DealWithIt

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Grand Moff Tele said:

 

Yes, just the way Luke was. These arguments were hashed out here 11 months ago.

 

Some people just can't handle that a woman could be powerful like Luke was shown to be before his training began. We go from Luke whining about not being able to get some power converters to him hitting the impossible shot and blowing up the Death Star (with the guidance of Obi Wan's voice) in a two hour span. His training in A New Hope consisted of five minutes of deflecting blaster shots from what's essentially a training dummy. Oh but wait, he DID miss one and it got him in the side. I guess that counts as struggling. 

 

Rey firing off desperate blaster shots as Kylo effortlessly deflects them and keeps getting closer, then freezes her and reads her mind before knocking her out and taking her back to their base is more of a physical struggle then anything Luke went through in ANH.

Edited by DealWithIt
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JonathanLB Box Office Gold

JonathanLB

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:

 

ARRIVAL and MANCHESTER are both amazing. :lol: 

 

edit: I guess @WrathOfHan was right?

 

Amazingly boring lol. I thought I would really like Arrival but wow I was wrong and yes Wrath was right. I liked the visual style, very well shot. The ending was abrupt and didn't justify what was a boring slog. I think these recent movies have confused poor editing and slow pacing with thoughtful. I can think fast, no need to make them slow! :P

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Highever Straight-to-DVD

Highever

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:

 

I can't believe you want to rehash this, but:

 

A- she wasn't "a linguist", she had picked up the same basic couple of random languages that other SW characters have done through the course of their lives, including Luke (who seems to have lived a more sheltered life than Rey). Is Luke a linguist? He understands at least some basic droid languages in A NEW HOPE. 

B- she wasn't a particularly good duellist, but she managed to hold off an angry and and overconfident and wounded Dark Side-ish apprentice (who had limited formal training of his own) for a few moments and managed to strike a blow. Kylo Ren might have some Dark Side ability, but Rey clearly is Force-sensitive and also had some basic latent ability to explore it. Again, this is the same sort of case with Luke, not to mention Anakin, who (at the age of eight! or however old he was) had far, far more natural abilities.

C- see B. Luke's "training" at the beginning of TESB consists of five minutes with a training droid while Obi-Wan watched and a whispered "The Force is with You" during the Trench Run. It's about the same as what Rey had when she managed to unexpectedly do the same thing.

 

I've been a Star Wars fan for 35 years, roughly speaking. Not once did any of these concerns cross my mind until I wandered onto message boards and discovered a bunch of people suddenly bitching that a young woman -- who clearly is destined to be some sort of future Jedi or powerful Force-enabled person -- showed the few flashes of basic ability that had already been demonstrated by other major characters in previous Star Wars movies.

 

I also hesitate to use an appeal to authority, but in this particular case the movie was shepherded through production and co-written by someone who arguably has had as much creative power in the Star Wars universe as anyone not named George Lucas. If anyone (aside from Lucas) has the creative understanding and "right" chops to add a new character with the potential to become some great Force in the galaxy, it's Kasdan.

 

There is no desire on my part to rehash this. I only do what I must. 

 

I will discuss her ability as a duelist. I find her performance in that final confrontation with Kylo Ren to be the most egregious. Luke Skywalker, in canon, had years of experience with a lightsaber before being soundly beaten by Darth Vader at Cloud City. His first feat with a lightsaber that you highlight was in canon replicated by four year jedi younglings. I don't know of any lightsaber feats Anakin showed without training, but he did eventually lose to Count Dooku after a decade of experience in the Jedi Temple. Dooku's experience meant more than Anakin's potential (even with substantial training) as the greatest to ever live and so on. Three years later, Anakin would win. He claimed his powers had doubled. From 19-22. Rey is 19, and Kylo is 29. 

 

Luke demonstrably struggled with telekinesis months after being introduced to the force, but Rey would pull a lightsaber away from a telekinetic expert that minutes prior threw her in to a tree. With no experience doing so. 

 

Kylo is not as untrained as you might think. He, at the very latest it is possible in canon, would have entered training at 23. Giving him 6 years. 

 

As for Kylo's diminished capacity, let's discuss Rey's for once. It seems plausible that being thrown in to a tree and then falling 20 feet or so would impact performance in a duel. So would fighting in cold while being acclimated to a desert climate. Further, Kylo had shown that he could engage in swordsmanship prior to fighting Rey. That he could run, and that he could use the force. This is to say little of Rey having to transition from a staff to a lightsaber with absolutely no preparation. 

 

I think there are fans far more knowledgable regarding the SW universe than Kasdan, fans that disagree with the outcome of this duel. 

 

It is not my claim that Rey's performance is necessarily a problem. Only that it can become so. Defenders of this scene often highlight Kylo's diminished capacity in pursuit of discrediting the massive success of Rey, but in doing so they argue what is essentially the narrative finale of the film is meant to be... meaningless. This victory is either significant, or it isn't. What was it supposed to be? If it is significant, then Rey's ability requires address. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Highever
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#ED Global Phenomenon

#ED

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ThePanda A Star Wars Story said:

 

It's kind of like how Tele's troll Interstellar under BB post/club ended right to some degree.

 

He's banned from Dunkirk threads.

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Merkel Indie Sensation

Merkel

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Until the whole trilogy plays out, we really don't know much about Rey's Force abilities. We don't know if she had previous training or not. We don't if she is roughly as strong with the Force as Luke was at the same point, or if she is some sort of supreme Force manifestation the likes of which we have never seen before.

 

Plus, Kylo Ren, besides being severely injured (and the movie did emphasize this quite a bit) and in a state of emotional turmoil, did not want to kill Rey but rather make her join his cause and receive training

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