ROGUE ONE WEEKEND THREAD | Actuals R1 155.09m, Moana 12.7m, OCP 8.58m, CB 7.1m, FB 5.07m

[Plain Old Tele]

5 minutes ago, Highever said:

 

There is no desire on my part to rehash this. I only do what I must. 

 

I will discuss her ability as a duelist. I find her performance in that final confrontation with Kylo Ren to be the most egregious. Luke Skywalker, in canon, had years of experience with a lightsaber before being soundly beaten by Darth Vader at Cloud City. His first feat with a lightsaber that you highlight was in canon replicated by four year jedi younglings. I don't know of any lightsaber feats Anakin showed without training, but he did eventually lose to Count Dooku after a decade of experience in the Jedi Temple. Dooku's experience meant more than Anakin's potential (even with substantial training) as the greatest to ever live and so on. Three years later, Anakin would win. He claimed his powers had doubled. From 19-22. Rey is 19, and Kylo is 29. 

 

Luke demonstrably struggled with telekinesis months after being introduced to the force, but Rey would pull a lightsaber away from a telekinetic expert that minutes prior threw her in to a tree. With no experience doing so. 

 

Kylo is not untrained as you might think. He, at the very latest it is possible in canon, would have entered training at 23. Giving him 6 years. 

 

As for Kylo's diminished capacity, let's discuss Rey's for once. It seems plausible that being thrown in to a tree and then falling 20 feet or so would impact performance in a duel. So would fighting in cold while being acclimated to a desert climate. Further, Kylo had shown that he could engage in swordsmanship prior to fighting Rey. That he could run, and that he could use the force. This is to say little of Rey having to transition from a staff to a lightsaber with absolutely no preparation. 

 

I think there are fans far more knowledgable regarding the SW universe than Kasdan, fans that disagree with the outcome of this duel. 

 

It is not my claim that Rey's performance is necessarily a problem. Only that it can become so. Defenders of this scene often highlight Kylo's diminished capacity in pursuit of discrediting the massive success of Rey, but in doing so they argue what is essentially the narrative finale of the film is meant to be... meaningless. This victory is either significant, or it isn't. What was it supposed to be? If it is significant, then Rey's ability requires address. 

 

 

Kylo Ren isn't Vader. Not even close. Rey may not be Luke at the end of EMPIRE, but she doesn't need to be. My references to Anakin were more along the lines of the Force usage that Rey seemed to benefit from (though she spent more focused effort on it than young Anakin, to whom it was all instinctive): the pod-race, flying an alien starfighter for the first time and -- while goofily screwing up -- managing to pilot it expertly and avoiding all damage while taking down a whole series of battle droids and a Federation master-control ship.

 

In terms of telekinesis (or in fact any Jedi/Sith-related talent), I wouldn't call Ren a master of anything. He is the dark version of Luke in, say, EMPIRE or so, without the challenge of facing an infinitely more powerful opponent.

 

Defenders of this scene often highlight Kylo's diminished capacity in pursuit of discrediting the massive success of Rey, but in doing so they argue what is essentially the narrative finale of the film is meant to be... meaningless.

 

I wouldn't call it meaningless at all, because for me the point isn't that she managed to defeat some Ultimate Bad Guy, but that she accepted the Force, embraced whatever her future destiny is, and actively took on the quest of seeking out her own master to learn from. Her defeat of Ren -- or, more to the point, her ability to survive a confrontation and wound him -- is icing on the cake, as well as the indicator that she does indeed have far more to her than she ever expected. In terms of it being addressed, well my goodness, isn't this why we have EPISODE VIII coming down the pipeline? TFA managed to do a great job, I thought, in answering many basic questions and drawing the first act of a greater story to a close, all while opening up a slew of greater ones that clearly will be explored further by the next movies. Will they answer them well? I have no idea... but it seems completely wrong to me to fault TFA for the lack of answers so far.

[Jandrew]

33 minutes ago, shruth said:

 

 

I think you're forgetting I accurately predicted TFA and JW in my first post xD 

 

 

Haha wait a minute, were you serious or were these numbers sarcasm? 

Edited December 18, 2016 by jandrew

[cannastop]

2 minutes ago, jandrew said:

 

Haha wait a minute, were you serious or were these numbers sarcasm? 

Have to give him credit. The only movies he didn't overestimate were TFA and Jurassic World.

[JonathanLB]

The biggest problem with the in my opinion silly Rey criticisms is the first movie itself dispels your whole criticism. The Force controls your actions? "Partially, but it also obeys your commands." Did you watch the movies? Lol Rey doesn't need to be trained, THE FORCE AWAKENS. In Rey. They spelled it out in the title for you even!

[Talkie]

There's nothing more futile than Star Wars nerds arguing about force sensitivity and power levels. 

 

[kayumanggi]

1 hour ago, WrathOfHan said:

Arrival and Doctor Strange are ahead of them IMO

 

I haven't seen ARRIVAL yet. I thought DOCTOR STRANGE's visuals were good but not as good as those of ROGUE ONE or TJB.

[Highever]

17 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:

 

Kylo Ren isn't Vader. Not even close. Rey may not be Luke at the end of EMPIRE, but she doesn't need to be. My references to Anakin were more along the lines of the Force usage that Rey seemed to benefit from (though she spent more focused effort on it than young Anakin, to whom it was all instinctive): the pod-race, flying an alien starfighter for the first time and -- while goofily screwing up -- managing to pilot it expertly and avoiding all damage while taking down a whole series of battle droids and a Federation master-control ship.

 

In terms of telekinesis (or in fact any Jedi/Sith-related talent), I wouldn't call Ren a master of anything. He is the dark version of Luke in, say, EMPIRE or so, without the challenge of facing an infinitely more powerful opponent.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't call it meaningless at all, because for me the point isn't that she managed to defeat some Ultimate Bad Guy, but that she accepted the Force, embraced whatever her future destiny is, and actively took on the quest of seeking out her own master to learn from. Her defeat of Ren -- or, more to the point, her ability to survive a confrontation and wound him -- is icing on the cake, as well as the indicator that she does indeed have far more to her than she ever expected. In terms of it being addressed, well my goodness, isn't this why we have EPISODE VIII coming down the pipeline? TFA managed to do a great job, I thought, in answering many basic questions and drawing the first act of a greater story to a close, all while opening up a slew of greater ones that clearly will be explored further by the next movies. Will they answer them well? I have no idea... but it seems completely wrong to me to fault TFA for the lack of answers so far.

 

I accept that Kylo isn't Vader in Empire, but do you accept Rey isn't Luke in said movie? 

[Plain Old Tele]

Just now, Highever said:

 

I accept that Kylo isn't Vader in Empire, but do you accept Rey isn't Luke in said movie? 

 

Sure, Luke had gone through some formal training with Yoda at that point. I'm not trying to argue an exact match, or even any sort of power-level type status, merely that what we've seen of Rey so far more-or-less matches what we've seen in other key, Force-sensitive protagonists in the SW movie saga. Honestly, Luke in ANH probably wins all the medals for doing the most with the least concept or direction of what it is he's dealing with (and trying to control). But somehow that's never been an issue at all -- nor do I think it should be! What Luke did was awesome and cool and fun and a great movie experience. And so is what Rey did -- in a somewhat different capacity and with a somewhat different goal. I cheered Luke when I was a kid. I cheer Rey as an adult.

[shruth]

26 minutes ago, jandrew said:

 

Haha wait a minute, were you serious or were these numbers sarcasm? 

those were sarcastic #s. Real predictions were much lower

[Ozymandias]

14 minutes ago, Talkie said:

There's nothing more futile than Star Wars nerds arguing about force sensitivity and power levels. 

 

 

I've already seen a hilarious complaint about a certain scene at the end of Rogue One involving the force.

[narniadis]

I have a feeling the ignore feature will be in use before the week is up.... that being said, it's annoying to see people quoting people I have on ignore wish that function carried over lol. 

 

Great Saturday, probably the best that we could have expected. 

[Daxtreme]

I just re-watched ANH after seeing Rogue One and holy crap, does Rogue One work in giving gravitas to it all. (no spoilers, don't worry)

 

Sure it's not up-to-date visuals wise, but the beginning of the movie is strengthened so much by the end of R1.

 

And when Luke fires that damn torpedo, and the Rebels celebrate... you know it means something more than it did before

 

A damn worthy prequel if you ask me. That's what prequels should strive to be.

 

I saw ANH in a new light today, never thought that would have been possible... My favorite of the OT 

[Mojoguy]

So Rogue One makes $156.6m OW, if we go by Rth's Sat Number!

Edited December 18, 2016 by Mojoguy

[Highever]

9 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:

 

Sure, Luke had gone through some formal training with Yoda at that point. I'm not trying to argue an exact match, or even any sort of power-level type status, merely that what we've seen of Rey so far more-or-less matches what we've seen in other key, Force-sensitive protagonists in the SW movie saga. Honestly, Luke in ANH probably wins all the medals for doing the most with the least concept or direction of what it is he's dealing with (and trying to control). But somehow that's never been an issue at all -- nor do I think it should be! What Luke did was awesome and cool and fun and a great movie experience. And so is what Rey did -- in a somewhat different capacity and with a somewhat different goal. I cheered Luke when I was a kid. I cheer Rey as an adult.

 

I will reply to this in about 12 hours or so. Be ready. 

[JonathanLB]

4 minutes ago, Daxtreme said:

I just re-watched ANH after seeing Rogue One and holy crap, does Rogue One work in giving gravitas to it all. (no spoilers, don't worry)

 

Sure it's not up-to-date visuals wise, but the beginning of the movie is strengthened so much by the end of R1.

 

And when Luke fires that damn torpedo, and the Rebels celebrate... you know it means something more than it did before

 

A damn worthy prequel if you ask me. That's what prequels should strive to be.

 

I saw ANH in a new light today, never thought that would have been possible... My favorite of the OT 

 

I watched ANH Thursday night after R1, I totally agree. Though I'm always amazed every time I watch ANH and try to remind myself it's an older movie now, I forget immediately. It looks amazing on Blu-ray! It's so sharp and crisp and just holds up fantastic. That was a huge part of the appeal for me when I became a fan in 1997.

[RobinHood26]

39 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:

 

I wouldn't call Ren a master of anything. He is the dark version of Luke in, say, EMPIRE or so,

 

 

 

I like this a lot 

[Eevin]

57 minutes ago, JonathanLB said:

 

Amazingly boring lol. I thought I would really like Arrival but wow I was wrong and yes Wrath was right. I liked the visual style, very well shot. The ending was abrupt and didn't justify what was a boring slog. I think these recent movies have confused poor editing and slow pacing with thoughtful. I can think fast, no need to make them slow!

[Daxtreme]

Look, I'm gonna be brief, here's how Rogue One ties into A New Hope

 

 

[Mulder]

Btw expect tonight to be hampered by the snow in the northeast a bit. At my theater tonight fell below our expectations for turn-out to the point where we cancelled a 2 AM IMAX show.

[elcaballero]

3 minutes ago, Daxtreme said:

Look, I'm gonna be brief, here's how Rogue One ties into A New Hope

 

 

I stared at this gif way longer than I should have.