Terminator: Dark Fate | Nov 1 2019 | Estimated to lose 122.6M

[Barnack]

1 hour ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Warcraft over performed too. Over performed doesn't automatically mean hit. Alita is going to do as well as The Mummy worldwide on an even larger budget. 

Tarzan also being an example of over performer, for an other somewhat clear overperformer while not clear hit type imo.

 

1 hour ago, The Futurist said:

A 70's+ old Terminator is not the sexiest thing ...

Having seen any since T2, but are not making younger CGI version of the Arnold by now ?

Edited March 20, 2019 by Barnack

[ZattMurdock]

I love Tim Miller but all the pics from the production plus this title don't inspire me with too much confidence. Hoping to be wrong. 

[Warmaster506]

Let me guess they will puss out of the R rating?

[NCsoft]

12 hours ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Yeah because Cameron turned Alita into a big hit that all other films were afraid of. Oh wait, that didn't happen, Captain Marvel destroyed Alita. Dark Fate is not guaranteed success. Avatar 2 is because it's an actual Cameron film.

I'm just going to put it this way, James Cameron turned Alita into the kind of hit that no other director could turn a film like Alita into, the niche is really that small. Had most other directors worked on it, it would have performed worse than GITS, which is more known and had Scarlett in it. Cameron managed to do it while still being faithful to the source material, and he didn't even direct the film. 

[ZattMurdock]

3 minutes ago, NCsoft said:

I'm just going to put it this way, James Cameron turned Alita into the kind of hit that no other director could turn a film like Alita into, the niche is really that small. Had most other directors worked on it, it would have performed worse than GITS, which is more known and had Scarlett in it. Cameron managed to do it while still being faithful to the source material, and he didn't even direct the film. 

That's awfully misguided and flat out wrong. Tim Miller is the one directing the new Terminator film, Robert Rodriguez was the one directing Alita. Saying that Cameron producing a film make the film "his" is laughable and a clear signal that you don't understand how these things work at all. 

[NCsoft]

20 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

That's awfully misguided and flat out wrong. Tim Miller is the one directing the new Terminator film, Robert Rodriguez was the one directing Alita. Saying that Cameron producing a film make the film "his" is laughable and a clear signal that you don't understand how these things work at all. 

What clear signal?

Oh, It's Robert's film as well, have I said otherwise? The point I was making was that Cameron was the key to this film's over-performance, GITS made around 169M, that is pretty much going to be the standard performance for this type of films in the current era. 

Alita would not even exist without Cameron, it's his passion project, he produced and co-wrote the film, it involved technology which he co-developed, it  got a 170 Million budget because of Cameron... It would not be a stretch to call it his film. However, I didn't even call it "his", I specifically said that Cameron turned Alita into the kind of "hit" and no other director can turn Alita into. I only used the wording "Turned Alita into" because it is a parallel to the poster I quoted, that was the exact original wording...

When a "predestined failure,  a massive 200M bomb" manage to gross 400M WW, what would you say is the primary reason, the prowess of Robert Rodriguez's directing power?

Edited March 20, 2019 by NCsoft

[Barnack]

22 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

That's awfully misguided and flat out wrong. Tim Miller is the one directing the new Terminator film, Robert Rodriguez was the one directing Alita. Saying that Cameron producing a film make the film "his" is laughable and a clear signal that you don't understand how these things work at all. 

Movie auteurship isn't that clear and dry cut, I am not sure people would have such an averse reaction that despise Lucas being not the director or  doing the tiring part of the writing jobs of the star wars sequels that they were still "his", has the main auteur of them.

 

Sorkins writing is so distinctive, precise and voluminous, executed down to the words that it can make feel is film has "his"

Edited March 20, 2019 by Barnack

[The Futurist]

13 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Movie auteurship isn't that clear and dry cut, I am not sure people would have such an averse reaction that despise Lucas being not the director or  doing the tiring part of the writing jobs of the star wars sequels that they were is film, has the main auteur of them.

 

Sorkins writing is so distinctive, precise and voluminous, executed down to the words that it can make feel is film has "his"

Philosophically, movie making is probably the most communist artform and yet in the west they made it all about the mighty and visionary  director that knows everything about everything, which would be called a dictator in other parts of the world.

How freaking ironic.

 

In the original french auteur theory, a director would have to be the writer of his film to claim authorship.

[dashrendar44]

8 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

That's awfully misguided and flat out wrong. Tim Miller is the one directing the new Terminator film, Robert Rodriguez was the one directing Alita. Saying that Cameron producing a film make the film "his" is laughable and a clear signal that you don't understand how these things work at all. 

 

When a movie wins a "Best Movie" academy award, the academy award goes to the producers. And yes, a movie is owned by its producers in Hollywood. Black Panther was nominated for best movie under Kevin Feige's name as runner up, not Ryan Coogler's because the latter didn't have producing credits. That's how these things work in the real world.

Edited March 20, 2019 by dashrendar44

[Deep Wang]

1 hour ago, dashrendar44 said:

 

When a movie wins a "Best Movie" academy award, the academy award goes to the producers. And yes, a movie is owned by his producers in Hollywood. Black Panther was nominated for best movie under Kevin Feige's name as runner up, not Ryan Coogler's because the latter didn't have producing credits. That's how these things work in the real world.

 

Of course someone brought up this argument in the Alita thread because this is literally the same thing over again.

 

You can say it however you want, most people will say 'the new Spielberg film' meaning one he actually directed, not produced.  

 

For example, I can't wait for the new Nolan film.

[Plain Old Tele]

Just now, Deep Wang said:

 

Of course someone brought up this argument in the Alita thread because this is literally the same thing over again.

 

You can say it however you want, most people will say 'the new Spielberg film' meaning one he actually directed, not produced.  

 

For example, I can't wait for the new Nolan film.

 

Of course, Nolan also produces his movies.  

[TMP]

A James Cameron written/directed Terminator film would be my most anticipated big budget film of the year. A David Goyer scripted/Tim Miller directed Terminator film? Not so much

[Elessar]

1 minute ago, TMP said:

A James Cameron written/directed Terminator film would be my most anticipated big budget film of the year. A David Goyer scripted/Tim Miller directed Terminator film? Not so much

I get that. But i'd still take a Terminator with Cameron as producer and with direct input to story over pretty much anything else that's coming out for the rest of the year.

[Deep Wang]

13 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

Of course, Nolan also produces his movies.  

Well, yes today's filmmaking model is somewhat different from when the Academy started giving out awards. 

[NCsoft]

I have to agree though that picture that's been posted everywhere doesn't exactly inspire too much... confidence. We really need more promotional material!

[MyMovieCanBeatUpYourMovie]

No one can make a Cameron film except James Cameron because he's simply too much of a control freak and too detail-oriented for anyone to replicate or imitate him.  

 

I remember Arnold talking about how Cameron would adjust individual lights on set himself to get the exact look he wanted, and there's that anecdote about how he personally arranged the photographs in that last shot of Titanic.  It's his hands-on nature working on every aspect of movie-making that makes his films what they are.  

Edited March 20, 2019 by MyMovieCanBeatUpYourMovie

[sabrecmc]

Terminator, along with Aliens and Predator, remains one of those big Could Have Been Great franchises.  I think we cling to all that lost potential.  I certainly hope this is good, but nothing so far really inspires a lot of realistic belief that it is going to be much better than other non-Cameron takes on it, I don't care if he is producer or not.  The only one I can think of like that other than Alita is Sanctum, and neither of those movies make me exactly excited for this. 

[Elessar]

2 minutes ago, sabrecmc said:

Terminator, along with Aliens and Predator, remains one of those big Could Have Been Great franchises.  I think we cling to all that lost potential.  I certainly hope this is good, but nothing so far really inspires a lot of realistic belief that it is going to be much better than other non-Cameron takes on it, I don't care if he is producer or not.  The only one I can think of like that other than Alita is Sanctum, and neither of those movies make me exactly excited for this. 

Both, Alien and Terminator had two amazing entries which is more than what you can say for most franchises. But we want more, MORE, so yes, clinging to lost potential and hope for a better future is part of it. I don't think Cameron would have put his name down on T3, T4, T5. T3 was a pretty lame rehash for the most part, T4 future "war" he doesn't care for (which i disagree with btw - would love a proper future war film) and T5... i dunno what that was but it certainly didn't look good. So i believe it does inspire some confidence that he is directly involved. And Alita was great.

[sabrecmc]

1 hour ago, Elessar said:

Both, Alien and Terminator had two amazing entries which is more than what you can say for most franchises. But we want more, MORE, so yes, clinging to lost potential and hope for a better future is part of it. I don't think Cameron would have put his name down on T3, T4, T5. T3 was a pretty lame rehash for the most part, T4 future "war" he doesn't care for (which i disagree with btw - would love a proper future war film) and T5... i dunno what that was but it certainly didn't look good. So i believe it does inspire some confidence that he is directly involved. And Alita was great.

I imagine that if you really loved Alita, that probably gives some comfort.  I didn't. I thought it was resoundingly fine, but it didn't make me think that Jim as a producer is going to give me the kind of movie that I think this property deserves.  I sincerely hope I'm wrong.  I truly do. I'm fully prepared to like this movie, because I loved the first 2. They are still touchstones of my childhood movie-going experiences.  I just am keeping my expectations in check because I don't think having his story input is the same as having him as a writer/director, and based on what I've seen, "not the same" means of far lessor quality, at least for me personally.  Not to mention that I tend to prefer his older movies, like the ones mentioned, and not the newer ones, so his...movie-making course in life has not gone the way I would have personally hoped.  T1, T2, and Aliens are vastly more entertaining to me than Titanic (meh) and Avatar (which is pretty much unwatchable as a movie for me personally, though the ride is amazing).  Dark Fate could surprise, and hopefully, it does.  I'm genuinely a fan of the story and want a good movie. 

[The Futurist]

If only Titanic and Avatar have been Rated R, there would have been much better films.

Yo.

Edited March 20, 2019 by The Futurist