The Oscars 2017 on ABC | 89th Academy Awards | Discuss It Live Here | Super Sale to Honor the Steve Harvey moment! (p124)

[Valonqar]

Just now, BirdMan said:

12 years a slave was a damn masterpiece man , movies like that should win naturally 

don't dismiss movie qualities based on race please 

 

you opinion. I thought it was crap. Book was great. The movie didn't do it justice. 

[NCsoft]

14 minutes ago, BirdMan said:

My friend no movie in recent years has had such strong precursors , and the SAG ensemble thing was because it literally had an actor and an actress for the entire duration of the movie 

now there has been some movies with very strong award buzz before the oscars  and were considered the frontrunners such as The Social Network and Boyhood but when they lost best picture they lost a whole bunch of academy awards with them including best director , LLL won everything it was predicted to win except for sound mixing and film editing but lost BP , which means Moonlight did not in fact pull off a King's Speech , not even the same case with last year's Spotlight because it was still considered the frontrunner heading into the oscars despite losing in many categories 

 

 

What Moonlight pulled was very similar to Godfather vs Cabaret or 12 years a slave vs Gravity, there are also other examples of Supporting actor + Screenplay + BP.

SAG Ensemble thing is significant because if the actors liked it enough, they will find a reason to nominate it, they did nominated the Artist after all, which is not much of a ensemble movie at all, that suggest that LLL was not at the level of the The Artist in terms of oscar BP chances. Losing Editing to hacksaw ridge was another sign, losing WGA and Oscars to Moonlight and Manchester, it just shows that it's not a writer's favourite either. The signs are all there, LLL was the front runner but I don't think it is as strong as you make it out to be, it is no Slumdog, no Artist, maybe not even Birdman (which has SAG, PGA, DGA combo).

 

The statement about spotlight is also not true, because statistically speaking, The big short was probably stronger due to PGA win, momentum wise, everybody was talking about The Revenant (DGA, GG, BAFTA ), Spotlight (Critics Choice, SAG) was not actually the frontrunner, last year was a small upset, not a big one, but still an upset. 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2017 by NCsoft

[cookie]

13 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

No they didn't. Those movies were about white gays like them. They don't like to be reminded. It's easy to reward a movie where things happen to someone else. 

 

 

 

[Valonqar]

3 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

Your opinion is your opinion, but that's where it ends. Your continual refusal to grant all these various minorities any sort of worthwhile achievement is also sadly telling. 

 

I will not change my mind about 12YS since I actually saw it. I will remove myself from Moonlight discussion now cause I haven't seen it and shouldn't have discussed it to begin with. 

[filmlover]

Valonqar seems like the kind of person who asks "why is there a Black Entertainment Television channel and not a White Entertainment Television one?!"

[Arlborn]

I'm actually pretty bummed myself that La La Land, a lovely movie that didn't deserve any of its silly clickbaity backlash, didn't win but I'm getting pretty incensed right now with people who didn't even watch the damn winner calling the win a political one only because of its theme and characters.

 

So what's the thinking here, that no matter how good your movie is if it touches certain themes then it doesn't actually deserve to win anything and if it does it's only because its themes happened to be minority-related?

 

Do people even realize that they are basically dismissing every-single-minority-related movie ever made, being made or that's going to be made? I'm pretty sure that's one of the definitions of racism right there.

 

 

And by the way... YOU DIDN'T EVEN WATCH THE FREAKING MOVIE SO SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT ITS QUALITY

 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Arlborn

[Valonqar]

Just now, filmlover said:

Valonqar seems like the kind of person who asks "why is there a Black Entertainment Television channel and not a White Entertainment Television one?!"

 

And I don't know what kind of person you are nor I care cause I'm here to discuss movies, awards,etc not other posters. 

[BirdMan]

6 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

There's no way you (or I) know exactly why SAG members chose to vote the way they did, but they've certainly gone for the eventual winner a fair amount of time and it's worth noting that they didn't this time. And perhaps that was an unexpected weak link in LA LA LAND's Oscar chances: if you were an actor and you weren't over the moon for Stone or Gosling, there's a good chance you voted for something else.

 

The experts I saw on the various Oscar blogs more or less picked LLL to win 9. Several thought it would win more. This story that "it basically won what it was expected to win" isn't true. Even if you grant that it missed out on some of its fringe categories, the Best Editing loss is a huge red flag -- that's an Oscar most BPs win, especially if they're a heavy front-runner in general. 

My friend stone won the Sag and Gosling was nominated for it , they were not however nominated for ensemble cast because the movie has only those two in it's entirety and as you know those two were nominated with one of them winning 

and about the editing thing it's not like Moonlight won it over LLL , freakin Hacksaw Ridge took the damn thing ( sorry but it made me very angry that Arrival or LLL did not take that ) so Moonlight had the same chink in the armor that LLL had but without having LLL's arsenal of weapons 

[Plain Old Tele]

12 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

I will not change my mind about 12YS since I actually saw it. I will remove myself from Moonlight discussion now cause I haven't seen it and shouldn't have discussed it to begin with. 

 

It's fine to dislike it, I'm not asking you to change your mind on that. Just consider that others have the opposite opinion and they arrived at that opinion because they flat-out loved it, not through any inherent white guilt or PCness or anything. 

 

Movies are like any any other art form -- people can love and hate the same thing and one opinion doesn't invalidate the other. In this case, the Academy happened to love one movie (12YS) more than another one (GRAVITY). And given the split with Cuaron, it's fair to say that preferential balloting probably impacted the BP vote there too (along with SF not being quite as reputable a genre as historical memoirs).

[Valonqar]

1 minute ago, Telemachos said:

 

It's fine to dislike it, I'm not asking you to change your mind on that. Just consider that others have the opposite opinion and they arrived at that opinion because they flat-out loved it, not through any inherent white guilt or PCness or anything. 

 

Movies are like any any other art form -- people can love and hate the same thing and one opinion doesn't invalidate the other. In this case, the Academy happened to love one movie (12YS) more than another one (GRAVITY). And given the split with Charon, it's fair to say that preferential balloting probably impacted the BP vote there too (along with SF not being quite as reputable a genre as historical memoirs).

 

That's totally fair and I can accept this reasoning. It sucks that AMPAS still feels that sci fi would demean them or something because sci fi has given the cinema masterpieces that put to shame Oscar winning dramas, biopics, historical movies, etc. 

[Cmasterclay]

6 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

And I don't know what kind of person you are nor I care cause I'm here to discuss movies, awards,etc not other posters. 

You literally said one page ago that the reason most black people succeed in public life, with a few "special exceptions," is because they've been granted political advantage. That's like the literal definition of a racist comment. I've been cutting out calling people racist in fear of being called a "reactionary" person, but Jesus H. Christ, man.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Cmasterclay

[Plain Old Tele]

6 minutes ago, BirdMan said:

My friend stone won the Sag and Gosling was nominated for it , they were not however nominated for ensemble cast because the movie has only those two in it's entirety and as you know those two were nominated with one of them winning 

and about the editing thing it's not like Moonlight won it over LLL , freakin Hacksaw Ridge took the damn thing ( sorry but it made me very angry that Arrival or LLL did not take that ) so Moonlight had the same chink in the armor that LLL had but without having LLL's arsenal of weapons 

 

Personally I was rooting for ARRIVAL but HACKSAW is a very well-cut movie and clearly it had some admirers within the Academy too. The Best Editing loss didn't necessarily indicate more strength for MOONLIGHT, it just indicated LA LA LAND was weaker than expected. 

 

Even before the show, some prognosticators we're talking about if LLL didn't win outright on the first ballot pass, it was in trouble, because it was the sort of movie that had its share of passionate supporters but many others would put it further down the list. Meanwhile MOONLIGHT was a movie that was getting a ton of love and likely showed up as the second or third choice on many ballots. 

 

Heck, look at how much love the LLL people themselves gave MOONLIGHT. Even above and beyond the plot of the movie, the idea of a writer/director passionately finding a way to make his movie despite so many years of struggle and denial clearly spoke to a lot of people. Maybe that's something we should explore more: that Barry Jenkins essentially lived out the story of LLL in his actual life. 

[Cmasterclay]

Also, La La Land is an old fashioned colorful musical in 2017. It's not some bang-up safe choice that everyone likes. Shit is very divisive. I know alot of people that didn't like it, either because a. It was too hyped or b. It's an old fashioned musical in 2017 and that shit is not most people's cup of tea. And I say that as someone who loved it. La La Land always had the potential, especially with the hype, to divide people, and that ended up hurting it. It was not a safe bet at all.

 

Also, I love how the narrative has gone from "La La Land is an old-fashioned Hollywood musical! Just shows how pretentious and out of touch Hollywood is!" to "La La Land got robbed for PC reasons! It's a huge hit that everyone loves" in the course of about about two days. Cognitive dissonance, y'all.

[misafeco]

3 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

Also, La La Land is an old fashioned colorful musical in 2017. It's not some bang-up safe choice that everyone likes. Shit is very divisive. I know alot of people that didn't like it, either because a. It was too hyped or b. It's an old fashioned musical in 2017 and that shit is not most people's cup of tea. And I say that as someone who loved it. La La Land always had the potential, especially with the hype, to divide people, and that ended up hurting it. It was not a safe bet at all.

 

Also, I love how the narrative has gone from "La La Land is an old-fashioned Hollywood musical! Just shows how pretentious and out of touch Hollywood is!" to "La La Land got robbed for PC reasons! It's a huge hit that everyone loves" in the course of about about two days. Cognitive dissonance, y'all.

La La Land was divisive and Moonlight wasn't? 

9 out of 10 predicted LLL to win Best Picture it's easy to say it now that it wasn't a rock solid frontrunner. I thought it was easily the most predictable winner compared to the recent winners.

[BirdMan]

4 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

Personally I was rooting for ARRIVAL but HACKSAW is a very well-cut movie and clearly it had some admirers within the Academy too. The Best Editing loss didn't necessarily indicate more strength for MOONLIGHT, it just indicated LA LA LAND was weaker than expected. 

 

Even before the show, some prognosticators we're talking about if LLL didn't win outright on the first ballot pass, it was in trouble, because it was the sort of movie that had its share of passionate supporters but many others would put it further down the list. Meanwhile MOONLIGHT was a movie that was getting a ton of love and likely showed up as the second or third choice on many ballots. 

 

Heck, look at how much love the LLL people themselves gave MOONLIGHT. Even above and beyond the plot of the movie, the idea of a writer/director passionately finding a way to make his movie despite so many years of struggle and denial clearly spoke to a lot of people. Maybe that's something we should explore more: that Barry Jenkins essentially lived out the story of LLL in his actual life. 

Agreed . in the end it went to one of the top 3 movies of the year so it is not like Lion or Hacksaw Ridge won 

the important thing is justice was delivered in the acting categories ( especially Affleck , not so especially Stone as she is the only controversial winner ) and both screenplay categories were very well deserved , Chazelle won Director so it was a very fine year I would say 

[misafeco]

7 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

Personally I was rooting for ARRIVAL but HACKSAW is a very well-cut movie and clearly it had some admirers within the Academy too. The Best Editing loss didn't necessarily indicate more strength for MOONLIGHT, it just indicated LA LA LAND was weaker than expected. 

Hacksaw Ridge editing was one of the most deserved award last night in my opinion. Those battle scenes. 

[Cmasterclay]

3 minutes ago, misafeco said:

La La Land was divisive and Moonlight wasn't? 

9 out of 10 predicted LLL to win Best Picture it's easy to say it now that it wasn't a rock solid frontrunner. I thought it was easily the most predictable winner compared to the recent winners.

Outside of baumer, pretty much everyone who saw Moonlight loved or at least liked it, whereas LLL is more mixed in terms of general reaction. The people who don't like Moonlight have, for the most part, admitted that they haven't even seen it. Hmmmm, I wonder why they're shitting on it....

[Valonqar]

To the surprise of no one, Oscars take another viewership dip:

 

http://deadline.com/2017/02/oscars-ratings-2017-down-best-picture-mistake-jimmy-kimmel-abc-1202009034/

 

Universe is back in balance. 

 

It's stupid to blame the mix-up, arguably the only worthy thing, for the dip. People have taste and stir clear of this boring af overlong show with nominees and winners they don't care about.

 

I also have a theory that Beatty didn't want to tell anyone that the envelope was wrong as a payback for Benning snub. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Valonqar

[4815162342]

I'll refrain from judging the merits of Moonlight's win until after I see it.

[franfar]