Weekend Thread | Estimates per DHD (p.15): J 19.75M, 12S 15.3M, DoT 14.7M, TP 12.1M, TGS 11.1M, P2 8.3M, TC 6.8M, TLJ 6.5M, I:TLK 5.9M, FMG 4.3M

[CJohn]

16 minutes ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

Well, the massive marketing push that it got must've helped. I saw ads for it all the Goddamn time on TV, in almost every single channel. In any case, the Age of Neeson blooms upon us. Better times await, my friend.

 

Also, is it just me or did Pitch Perfect 3 bomb like no one's business?

The marketing was INSANE, NOS put that shit everywhere.

 

It was the biggest of 3 here, so that shows how hard the other 2 tanked. The franchise never worked here.

[MaxAggressor]

 

[JonathanLB]

I'm not in the liberal crowd and I enjoyed The Post a lot, I thought it was a great movie. But it is a good point that not everyone is in the mood for "something important," and that's kind of the issue. There are a lot of great movies that are artistic and have a message and should be appreciated, but it's a lot easier to say that from a place of comfort where my daily schedule is basically pursuing whatever the fuck I want to do and being creative and just enjoying life. If I worked 8 hours at retail / fast food / soul-crushing corporate job every day, then the last thing I'd want to do is come home and hit up the theater to see some serious movie. No thanks. I'd rather see something funny like Jumanji or something with a lot of explosions, something enjoyable.

 

I'm going through lately and watching some "classic films" I missed out on and the same is true of most of them. When I watch them, I feel like I'm doing work, like I'm doing homework, and it's an educational experience that I appreciate as a filmmaker and I'm glad to be seeing these movies, but it's very rarely what I'd call "fun" to be honest. Even some of my favorite classics that I think are incredible movies, like Apocalypse Now, are not really that much fun to watch. I still think they're unquestionably great movies, because movies are an art form. But there are times I want to take a break from the Oscar nominees and "acclaimed movies" of the past and just pop in my favorite Arnold action movie or some old Jackie Chan movie and zone out and have fun. 

 

There are very few movies I think that can make you think a bit and also be a ton of fun. Ones that come to mind would be like Minority Report, Blade Runner, Inception, The Matrix, the Star Wars movies, maybe Fight Club (though I still don't watch it that often), etc. Otherwise, you get to choose between fun (Jumanji) and intelligent (The Post), and even if YOU are very intelligent, that doesn't always mean you're going to be in the mood for something serious. 

 

The irony is you see critics refer to fun movies as "disposable" entertainment, but I'd actually argue the opposite. Schindler's List is disposable -- see it once, never want to see it again. I have no interest in watching Good Night and Good Luck a second time, though I think it's a really good movie everyone should see once. It's disposable. It has no value beyond that first viewing to me, at all. Whereas fun movies are not disposable, I can keep watching them every year and derive the same enjoyment and fun out of them. 

[MCKillswitch123]

10 minutes ago, JonathanLB said:

I'm not in the liberal crowd and I enjoyed The Post a lot, I thought it was a great movie. But it is a good point that not everyone is in the mood for "something important," and that's kind of the issue. There are a lot of great movies that are artistic and have a message and should be appreciated, but it's a lot easier to say that from a place of comfort where my daily schedule is basically pursuing whatever the fuck I want to do and being creative and just enjoying life. If I worked 8 hours at retail / fast food / soul-crushing corporate job every day, then the last thing I'd want to do is come home and hit up the theater to see some serious movie. No thanks. I'd rather see something funny like Jumanji or something with a lot of explosions, something enjoyable.

 

I'm going through lately and watching some "classic films" I missed out on and the same is true of most of them. When I watch them, I feel like I'm doing work, like I'm doing homework, and it's an educational experience that I appreciate as a filmmaker and I'm glad to be seeing these movies, but it's very rarely what I'd call "fun" to be honest. Even some of my favorite classics that I think are incredible movies, like Apocalypse Now, are not really that much fun to watch. I still think they're unquestionably great movies, because movies are an art form. But there are times I want to take a break from the Oscar nominees and "acclaimed movies" of the past and just pop in my favorite Arnold action movie or some old Jackie Chan movie and zone out and have fun. 

 

There are very few movies I think that can make you think a bit and also be a ton of fun. Ones that come to mind would be like Minority Report, Blade Runner, Inception, The Matrix, the Star Wars movies, maybe Fight Club (though I still don't watch it that often), etc. Otherwise, you get to choose between fun (Jumanji) and intelligent (The Post), and even if YOU are very intelligent, that doesn't always mean you're going to be in the mood for something serious. 

 

The irony is you see critics refer to fun movies as "disposable" entertainment, but I'd actually argue the opposite. Schindler's List is disposable -- see it once, never want to see it again. I have no interest in watching Good Night and Good Luck a second time, though I think it's a really good movie everyone should see once. It's disposable. It has no value beyond that first viewing to me, at all. Whereas fun movies are not disposable, I can keep watching them every year and derive the same enjoyment and fun out of them. 

All I got from this big wall of text is #CASUAL @WrathOfHan

[Chad Stevens]

1 hour ago, JonathanLB said:

T'm not in the liberal crowd and I enjoyed The Post a lot, I thought it was a great movie. But it is a good point that not everyone is in the mood for "something important," and that's kind of the issue. There are a lot of great movies that are artistic and have a message and should be appreciated, but it's a lot easier to say that from a place of comfort where my daily schedule is basically pursuing whatever the fuck I want to do and being creative and just enjoying life. If I worked 8 hours at retail / fast food / soul-crushing corporate job every day, then the last thing I'd want to do is come home and hit up the theater to see some serious movie. No thanks. I'd rather see something funny like Jumanji or something with a lot of explosions, something enjoyable.

 

I'm going through lately and watching some "classic films" I missed out on and the same is true of most of them. When I watch them, I feel like I'm doing work, like I'm doing homework, and it's an educational experience that I appreciate as a filmmaker and I'm glad to be seeing these movies, but it's very rarely what I'd call "fun" to be honest. Even some of my favorite classics that I think are incredible movies, like Apocalypse Now, are not really that much fun to watch. I still think they're unquestionably great movies, because movies are an art form. But there are times I want to take a break from the Oscar nominees and "acclaimed movies" of the past and just pop in my favorite Arnold action movie or some old Jackie Chan movie and zone out and have fun. 

 

There are very few movies I think that can make you think a bit and also be a ton of fun. Ones that come to mind would be like Minority Report, Blade Runner, Inception, The Matrix, the Star Wars movies, maybe Fight Club (though I still don't watch it that often), etc. Otherwise, you get to choose between fun (Jumanji) and intelligent (The Post), and even if YOU are very intelligent, that doesn't always mean you're going to be in the mood for something serious. 

 

The irony is you see critics refer to fun movies as "disposable" entertainment, but I'd actually argue the opposite. Schindler's List is disposable -- see it once, never want to see it again. I have no interest in watching Good Night and Good Luck a second time, though I think it's a really good movie everyone should see once. It's disposable. It has no value beyond that first viewing to me, at all. Whereas fun movies are not disposable, I can keep watching them every year and derive the same enjoyment and fun out of them. 

I'm lean Liberal, however, I come here to escape Trump, politics and all that jazz. Movie's are my escape....

Spoiler

For the record, I hate Trump. Anyone that is for the ethical advancement of ONLY white people should not be President of the United States, IMHO

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Chad Stevens

[KP1025]

WB finally released actuals:

 

1	(1)	Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle	Sony Pictures	$19,505,170	-31%	3,704	$5,266	$316,450,318	5
2	new	12 Strong	Warner Bros.	$15,815,025		3,002	$5,268	$15,815,025	1
3	new	Den of Thieves	STX Entertainment	$15,206,108		2,432	$6,253	$15,206,108	1
4	(2)	The Post	20th Century Fox	$11,716,960	-39%	2,851	$4,110	$44,758,372	5
5	(4)	The Greatest Showman	20th Century Fox	$10,644,824	-15%	2,823	$3,771	$113,125,431	5
6	(7)	Paddington 2	Warner Bros.	$8,009,129	-27%	3,702	$2,163	$24,810,362	2

[MCKillswitch123]

How the bloody fuck did everything drop so bad from estimates to actuals?

Edited January 22, 2018 by MCKillswitch123

[Barnack]

4 minutes ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

How the bloody fuck did everything drop so bad from estimates to actuals?

NFL playoff games ?

[Chad Stevens]

9 minutes ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

How the bloody fuck did everything drop so bad from estimates to actuals?

TLJ didn't though, which is funny

[That One Girl]

72

64

The Man Who Invented Christmas

BST

$1,778

-68.0%

8

-13

$222

$5,675,534

-

9

[filmlover]

3 hours ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

How the bloody fuck did everything drop so bad from estimates to actuals?

 

3 hours ago, Barnack said:

NFL playoff games ?

Pretty much.

[Harpospoke]

6 hours ago, Barnack said:

You could be right for a movie that target old white people, but in general that cutting in half your audience does not hold up that much.

 

Specially for a movie like The Post or All the president men, people are mostly for a solid and free press, Trumps supporter that would disagree on that question are bit on the extreme fringe and far from 50% of the US + Canada population. It is not really a hot issues that does not make overall consensus.

 

In the general case

 

Before Trump election, there was around 248m moviegoers in the domestic market, young, black, latinos are over represented in it, only 51% of the ticket are bought by white people.

https://www.mpaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2016-Theatrical-Market-Statistics-Report-2.pdf

 

And Young are vastly over represented.

 

Ticket sold

white   : 51%

hispanic: 21%

black   : 14%

asians  : 14%

 

Ticket sold By age group:

18-24: 12%

25-39: 23%

40-49: 13%

50-59: 13%

60+  : 13%

 

Trump support by age group and ethnics group in the 2016 election:

 

18-24: 35%

25-29: 39%

30-39: 40%

40-49: 50%

50-64: 53%

65+  : 53%

 

White:   58%

Black :   8%

Hispanic:29%

Asian:   29%

 

Now if Canadians for the most part really do not care (only 13% of Canadian like Trump presidency and it is just a foreign country affair) and if they are around 10% of those 250m movie goers, that leave us 225m in the US and say around 10b.

 

Say if it we would have around 10b of domestic box office from the US was by age:

18-24: 1.2b around 0.42b from Trump supporter age pro-rata.

25-39: 2.3b around 0.92b from Trump supporter age pro-rata.

40-49: 1.3b around 0.65b from Trump supporter age pro-rata.

50+  : 2.6b around 1.378b from Trump supporter age pro-rata.

 

That is 3.388 billion from Trump supporters vs 4.012b among americans adult if we adjust by age or 46% not 50%.

 

Adjust by ethnicity of the tickey buyer.

 

That 7.4b box office was from:

white   : 3.774b that 2.18892b from Trump voters

hispanic: 1.554b that 0.45066b from trump voters

black   : 1.036b that 0.08288b from trump voters

asians  : 1.036b that 0.30044b from trump voters

 

So that 7.4b among american adult end up being

3.03b from trump voters vs 4.3771 for non Trump voters or just 41%.

 

Now if we add the 17 or less and Canadian, it probably get closer to 35% vs 65%

 

 

And that is using peak Trump + republican no matter what support, December 2017 Trump numbers were

 

Approve of Trump

18-34: 26%

35-49: 33%

50-64: 42%

65+  : 41%

 

Using those number instead of those who voted for the republican candidate, we would probably end up more 20-25% vs 75-80%

 

There is part of the reason I imagine we saw no down effect for the very openly and loudly anti-Trump Disney in general or MCU title and that movie like Patriot Day flopped, Trump strong base is not a big portion of the domestic box office and the vast majority of people probably do not follow or mind stuff like that thatmuch, the very vocal always triggered by cultural product Breitbart crowd is not necessarily representative.

So this still supports the point that a political message isn't going to help a movie either.  Either way you aren't going to gather a mass audience or turn off a mass audience.

 

So the complaints about this movie "not making what it should" must mean it's getting bad WOM or people just aren't interested in it.     Can't be turning off part of the general audience with the "message" right?

 

The thing applies to a right wing movie too.  I don't see that kind of thing getting people into a theater.   I get the feeling you were in "defense of liberal politics" mode here.

6 hours ago, JonathanLB said:

The irony is you see critics refer to fun movies as "disposable" entertainment, but I'd actually argue the opposite. Schindler's List is disposable -- see it once, never want to see it again. I have no interest in watching Good Night and Good Luck a second time, though I think it's a really good movie everyone should see once. It's disposable. It has no value beyond that first viewing to me, at all. Whereas fun movies are not disposable, I can keep watching them every year and derive the same enjoyment and fun out of them. 

Now that is an interesting idea.   I agree.   I've probably watched Back to the Future 10 times but only watched Sophie's Choice once.   Supposedly the former is  "disposable popcorn fun".

[Barnack]

20 minutes ago, Harpospoke said:

So this still supports the point that a political message isn't going to help a movie either.  Either way you aren't going to gather a mass audience or turn off a mass audience.

It is doing significantly more than the much better and best picture winner Spotlight, I am not sure about the Post not making the what it should message. Drama like those will not gather mass audience, it is certain.

 

Political message can help in some case, would a movie like The Post not based on a real story and absent of any political message have made much more ?

 

Quote

The thing applies to a right wing movie too.  I don't see that kind of thing getting people into a theater.   I get the feeling you were in "defense of liberal politics" mode here.

When Fox news goes on to promote them (like American Sniper) it possibly can I imagine.

 

20 minutes ago, Harpospoke said:

I get the feeling you were in "defense of liberal politics" mode here.

Maybe (I am a bit astonish each them some element of liberal political like free speech or even more so free press does not seem to make consensus or bit that controversial), but it is just I have very often read that split the audience in 2 or 50% on a side and every time I see the MPAA breakdown of the ticket buyer I feel like that statement was never calculated and just repeated without taken time if it hold up and being curious about doing that calculation to see what it would look like.

 

20 minutes ago, Harpospoke said:

Now that is an interesting idea.   I agree.   I've probably watched Back to the Future 10 times but only watched Sophie's Choice once.   Supposedly the former is  "disposable popcorn fun".

There is something there, but it can of work both ways, saying that :

 I can keep watching them every year and derive the same enjoyment and fun out of them. 

 

Is a bit saying that it changed absolutely nothing to watch it, it was simple popcorn fun to the extreme that the rewatch is the same experience, i.e. that you were the exact same person before and after, that it was completely useless outside the having fun during that moment and that is probably what they meant by that expression, not the literal made to be consumed only one time like a disposable camera.

 

That said I imagine that the Back to the future type of classic loose that disposable popcorn aura around them, we are talking about a movie that 33% of the metacritic reviews are perfect score with a 86MC vs 68 for Sophie Choice.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Barnack

[WrathOfHan]

Tickets sold at my theater today:

 

The Post: 71 (the evening show only sold 2 tickets; DAMN)

Showman: 70

12 Strong: 63 (the late afternoon and evening shows only sold 7 each; JESUS)

Jumanji: 61 (34 2D/27 3D)

My Girl: 49

Thieves: 47

Commuter: 36
Darkest Hour: 26 (late afternoon show was empty)

Star Wars: 16 (13 2D/3 3D)

Insidious: 12 (morning show was empty)

Paddington: 12 (early afternoon show was empty)

Proud Mary: 12

 

The overall total of tickets sold today are down about 50% from last Tuesday. I can't imagine how terrible they're going to get over the next two weeks with so little coming out.

Edited January 23, 2018 by WrathOfHan

[filmlover]

Just now, WrathOfHan said:

Tickets sold at my theater today:

 

The Post: 71 (the evening show only sold 2 tickets; DAMN)

Showman: 70

12 Strong: 63 (the late afternoon and evening shows only sold 7 each; JESUS)

Jumanji: 61 (34 2D/27 3D)

My Girl: 49

Thieves: 47

Commuter: 36
Darkest Hour: 26 (late afternoon show was empty)

Star Wars: 16 (13 2D/3 3D)

Insidious: 12 (morning show was empty)

Paddington: 12 (early afternoon show was empty)

Proud Mary: 12

 

The amount of tickets sold today are down about 50% from last Tuesday. I can't imagine how terrible they're going to get over the next two weeks with so little coming out.

Time to start praying for some Oscar players opening near you!

[kowhite]

6 hours ago, Chad Stevens said:

I'm lean Liberal, however, I come here to escape Trump, politics and all that jazz. Movie's are my escape....

  Hide contents

For the record, I hate Trump. Anyone that is for the ethical advancement of ONLY white people should not be President of the United States, IMHO

 

 

I agree with everything you said.  Granted, maybe lean described me a couple years ago, I think I fell over since then.

[The Futurist]

Liberal means people that like Disney movies, right ?

[dxmatrixdt]

8 hours ago, JonathanLB said:

I'm not in the liberal crowd and I enjoyed The Post a lot, I thought it was a great movie. But it is a good point that not everyone is in the mood for "something important," and that's kind of the issue. There are a lot of great movies that are artistic and have a message and should be appreciated, but it's a lot easier to say that from a place of comfort where my daily schedule is basically pursuing whatever the fuck I want to do and being creative and just enjoying life. If I worked 8 hours at retail / fast food / soul-crushing corporate job every day, then the last thing I'd want to do is come home and hit up the theater to see some serious movie. No thanks. I'd rather see something funny like Jumanji or something with a lot of explosions, something enjoyable.

 

I'm going through lately and watching some "classic films" I missed out on and the same is true of most of them. When I watch them, I feel like I'm doing work, like I'm doing homework, and it's an educational experience that I appreciate as a filmmaker and I'm glad to be seeing these movies, but it's very rarely what I'd call "fun" to be honest. Even some of my favorite classics that I think are incredible movies, like Apocalypse Now, are not really that much fun to watch. I still think they're unquestionably great movies, because movies are an art form. But there are times I want to take a break from the Oscar nominees and "acclaimed movies" of the past and just pop in my favorite Arnold action movie or some old Jackie Chan movie and zone out and have fun. 

 

There are very few movies I think that can make you think a bit and also be a ton of fun. Ones that come to mind would be like Minority Report, Blade Runner, Inception, The Matrix, the Star Wars movies, maybe Fight Club (though I still don't watch it that often), etc. Otherwise, you get to choose between fun (Jumanji) and intelligent (The Post), and even if YOU are very intelligent, that doesn't always mean you're going to be in the mood for something serious. 

 

The irony is you see critics refer to fun movies as "disposable" entertainment, but I'd actually argue the opposite. Schindler's List is disposable -- see it once, never want to see it again. I have no interest in watching Good Night and Good Luck a second time, though I think it's a really good movie everyone should see once. It's disposable. It has no value beyond that first viewing to me, at all. Whereas fun movies are not disposable, I can keep watching them every year and derive the same enjoyment and fun out of them. 

I find revisiting older movies can be a satisfying experience.  If your not really feeling any new serious movies, and you have no idea what else to see, revisiting decades like 2008, 1998,1988 etc always seemed to grab my time and make it worthwhile.  Also, maybe you should try reewatching Good Night and Good Luck, Imitation Game, Theory of Everything, The King's Speech, or Frost/Nixon.  You never knw.....  someone times it helps to watch Good Night and Good Luck a second time years later, but with someone else and with a different POV.  it is like you come away with a different experience which matches whatever you 100% got out of it on just that sole viewing.  its happened w me before

Edited January 23, 2018 by Matrix4You

[Harpospoke]

2 hours ago, Barnack said:

It is doing significantly more than the much better and best picture winner Spotlight, I am not sure about the Post not making the what it should message. Drama like those will not gather mass audience, it is certain.

 

Political message can help in some case, would a movie like The Post not based on a real story and absent of any political message have made much more ?

 

When Fox news goes on to promote them (like American Sniper) it possibly can I imagine.

 

Maybe (I am a bit astonish each them some element of liberal political like free speech or even more so free press does not seem to make consensus or bit that controversial), but it is just I have very often read that split the audience in 2 or 50% on a side and every time I see the MPAA breakdown of the ticket buyer I feel like that statement was never calculated and just repeated without taken time if it hold up and being curious about doing that calculation to see what it would look like.

 

I think you got caught up in the "50% of the audience" thing.   What I meant was that you are alienating part of the audience if you make a movie political.   Going around claiming that "this movie is important and everyone should see it because of the political message" is going to turn away ticket buyers.

 

I know I lost interest in seeing it due to how it was described on this board.  (and I love Hanks and Streep)  I'll go see Jumanji again instead.

 

Was American Sniper some political message movie?   I didn't see it.   I thought it was about some war hero.  (I guess that makes it "conservative"?)

 

Both parties love freedom of speech and the press....

 

....but of course only when they agree with the message.   Both work really hard to shut people up they don't agree with.   The hypocrisy there is pretty thick.   Neither understand that free speech is about freedom to say things people don't like or agree with.   It's easy to let people talk who say things you like.  Hitler and Stalin pulled that one off without any effort.   Real freedom of speech is hard.   That's why laws are required to allow it.

 

2 hours ago, Barnack said:

 

There is something there, but it can of work both ways, saying that :

 I can keep watching them every year and derive the same enjoyment and fun out of them. 

 

Is a bit saying that it changed absolutely nothing to watch it, it was simple popcorn fun to the extreme that the rewatch is the same experience, i.e. that you were the exact same person before and after, that it was completely useless outside the having fun during that moment and that is probably what they meant by that expression, not the literal made to be consumed only one time like a disposable camera.

Oh no thanks.   I don't need or want a movie to "change me".   I'm fully capable of forming my own opinions without guidance from an "important" movie.   Any movie with a political message is going to conveniently leave out any details that don't support the opinion of the filmmaker.   Anyone can make a compelling case when they do that.    

[Barnack]

45 minutes ago, Harpospoke said:

Oh no thanks.   I don't need or want a movie to "change me".   I'm fully capable of forming my own opinions without guidance from an "important" movie.   Any movie with a political message is going to conveniently leave out any details that don't support the opinion of the filmmaker.   Anyone can make a compelling case when they do that.    

Not sure I would call Tree of Life, Manchester by the sea or Beast of no Nation particularly political, it can be about seeing a point of view of life experience to live it a little bit by empathy for a little while in the protection of a seat in front of the screen and have a little bit different view of what child soldier, grief, meaning of the life experience, etc.... is. I do not think most of non disposable pop corn movie are political, take Moonlight it was seen as important and is pretty much apolitical, arguably much less than the usual Transformer. that is seen as popcorn fun while being used by the US military for an Army publicity.

 

49 minutes ago, Harpospoke said:

I think you got caught up in the "50% of the audience" thing. 

Yes that is my main point it is something people say without testing if that 50% figure used is close to the truth.