Weekend Thread | Estimates per DHD (p.15): J 19.75M, 12S 15.3M, DoT 14.7M, TP 12.1M, TGS 11.1M, P2 8.3M, TC 6.8M, TLJ 6.5M, I:TLK 5.9M, FMG 4.3M

[Barnack]

13 hours ago, Harpospoke said:

What I meant was that you are alienating part of the audience if you make a movie political.   Going around claiming that "this movie is important and everyone should see it because of the political message" is going to turn away ticket buyers.

You are right, but except for the lowest possible common denominator type of movies, you will always do, make a movie a musical you are alienating the majority of ticket buyer that would never see it (but interesting musicals fans) , have Adam Sandler you are alienating half of the ticket buyer (but interesting the other half one of the biggest fanbase ever) and so on.

 

If you sales a ticket to 10% of ticket buyer, you are making around 250m at the domestic box office, you are not trying to please more than half of that (so trying to get 5% of the audience) most of the time and it can be better when you are not some giant blockbuster that need to do nothing to be sure to not displease any group to have a strong appeal among a smaller percentage of the audience than a moderate one among a larger one.

 

To test that question, imagine how much more (or less) The Post would be making if it was not perceived as a political charged title, a drama about the Washington post in the 70s, without any of the moment angle to it. Is the people lost by the political angle really larger than those that are gained by the free press surrounding the title (and maybe award attention) and by those interested by that angle ? I am not sure it is clear cut easy to answer that it is hurting is box office performance. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Barnack

[MovieMan89]

1-3 were very much written with a 4th-6th grade audience in mind. 5-7 are very much written with a teen audience in mind. 4 is the bridge - most of it is written with the same demo in mind as the first three until the ending establishes the tone of who the remainder of the series would be targeted at. 

[Harpospoke]

36 minutes ago, Barnack said:

YOu are right, but except for the lowest possible common denominator type of movies, you will always do, make a movie a musical you are alienating the majority of ticket buyer that would never see it (but interesting musicals fans) , have Adam Sandler you are alienating half of it (but interesting the other half) and so on.

 

If you sales a ticket to 10% of ticket buyer, you are making around 250m at the domestic box office, you are not trying to please more than half of that most of the time and it can be better when you are not some giant blockbuster that need to do nothing to be sure to not displease any group to have a strong appeal among a smaller percentage of the audience than a moderate one among a larger one.

 

To test that question, imagine how much more (or less) The Post would be making if it was not perceived as a political charged title, a drama about the post in the 70s, without any of the moment angle to it. Is the people lost not feeling for this larger than those gained, by the free press surrounding the title (and maybe award attention) gained by that angle ? I am not sure it is clear cut easy to answer that it is hurting is box office performance. 

The funny thing to me about a political movie is how futile it is.

 

The people that go see it already agree with the message.   Kinda like hoping to convert more people to heavy metal music by hosting a heavy metal concert.   Guess who shows up to the concert?    Not a lot of jazz fans out there.

 

So a political movie ends up with a crowd of people nodding their heads in agreement who agreed before they sat down.  "Right on!"

[Avatree]

3 hours ago, Harpospoke said:

Was American Sniper some political message movie?   I didn't see it.   I thought it was about some war hero.  (I guess that makes it "conservative"?)

No the film itself didn't have much of a political message, at least it didn't from what I remember, but the guy it was based on what was pretty extreme, iirc he gloated about shooting shoplifters during hurricane katrina, and said he'd happily kill every afghan man woman and child because they're not human. But that got pushed aside and the guy got promoted everywhere. In Spielbergs earlier version supposedly it was not particularly supportive of the main character.

[Noctis]

4 minutes ago, Tree Billboards said:

No the film itself didn't have much of a political message, at least it didn't from what I remember, but the guy it was based on what was pretty extreme, iirc he gloated about shooting shoplifters during hurricane katrina, and said he'd happily kill every afghan man woman and child because they're not human. But that got pushed aside and the guy got promoted everywhere. In Spielbergs earlier version supposedly it was not particularly supportive of the main character.

Exactly...AS was pure propaganda.

[Avatree]

sorry iraq not afghanistan.

[baumer]

5 hours ago, Tree Billboards said:

No the film itself didn't have much of a political message, at least it didn't from what I remember, but the guy it was based on what was pretty extreme, iirc he gloated about shooting shoplifters during hurricane katrina, and said he'd happily kill every afghan man woman and child because they're not human. But that got pushed aside and the guy got promoted everywhere. In Spielbergs earlier version supposedly it was not particularly supportive of the main character.

 

I read the book and you are taking things out of context.  And he did not say he would kill every man woman and child, he said he would kill any man woman and child who posed a threat to his unit or to the USA.  

 

I'm Canadian, so don't list me as being a jingoistic supporter of Chris Kyle.  But you are distorting his words.  I also don;t remember anything about him shooting people during hurricane Katrina.

[Avatree]

https://www.snopes.com/politics/military/kyleclaims.asp

[JonathanLB]

Chris Kyle was a hero unlike most of the whiny little Social Justice Warriors who don’t do a goddamn thing to make their country a better place. In fact they actively make it a worse place to live by their constant bitching about everything, including a great movie like American Sniper. Maybe they should learn what a hero looks like - it’s not a goateed man-bun wearing little hipster in a coffee shop pontificating about our heteronormative gender binary country. It’s someone who puts his life on the line to protect that little clueless Che Guevara hero worshipper so he can pontificate into the future from the safety of American soil. Maybe some of these people will grow up one day and learn that! I won’t hold my breath though.

[IronJimbo]

8 minutes ago, JonathanLB said:

Chris Kyle was a hero unlike most of the whiny little Social Justice Warriors who don’t do a goddamn thing to make their country a better place. In fact they actively make it a worse place to live by their constant bitching about everything, including a great movie like American Sniper. Maybe they should learn what a hero looks like - it’s not a goateed man-bun wearing little hipster in a coffee shop pontificating about our heteronormative gender binary country. It’s someone who puts his life on the line to protect that little clueless Che Guevara hero worshipper so he can pontificate into the future from the safety of American soil. Maybe some of these people will grow up one day and learn that! I won’t hold my breath though.

American Sniper was a great movie and Chris Kyle went through immense mental torture which requires a lot of courage, there is no doubt he is a hero by the dictionary definition of the word.

 

On the other hand there is nothing heroic about American foreign policy, all invading Iraq and Afghanistan did was increase hatred for America in the middle east.

 

[Avatree]

29 minutes ago, JonathanLB said:

Chris Kyle was a hero unlike most of the whiny little Social Justice Warriors who don’t do a goddamn thing to make their country a better place. In fact they actively make it a worse place to live by their constant bitching about everything, including a great movie like American Sniper. Maybe they should learn what a hero looks like - it’s not a goateed man-bun wearing little hipster in a coffee shop pontificating about our heteronormative gender binary country. It’s someone who puts his life on the line to protect that little clueless Che Guevara hero worshipper so he can pontificate into the future from the safety of American soil. Maybe some of these people will grow up one day and learn that! I won’t hold my breath though.

 

America. Never change.

[grey ghost]

Liberals hate the troops. Yet Obama brought most of them home and never insulted POWs and gold star families or dodged the draft. And Democrats are rarely the ones voting against more funding for veteran services.

 

 

[grey ghost]

There was only a handful of wars I feel America was completely justified:  Civil War, WW2, Korean War, and the War against ISIS (specifically).

 

Vietnam went on too long and didn't justify a draft. Persian Gulf War was about oil. Iraq War was based on lies and had no exit strategy. And the Afgan War has been going on way too long.

 

So sometimes our troops are being used in a righteous way and other times their patriotism and sacrifice is exploited by rich men in suits.

[Barnack]

2 hours ago, JonathanLB said:

Chris Kyle was a hero unlike most of the whiny little Social Justice Warriors who don’t do a goddamn thing to make their country a better place.

You could be right but it is not obvious how the USA military intervention in Irak made the United State a better place or augmented the security of any of is citizen (particularly on their home ground), that seam highly speculative and argument that it made the US a worst with giant dept place and less secure to be an US Citizen (specially abroad) could probably also be made.

 

I am curious if you are just repeating that without much thought or you really have built a argument on how it made the USA a better place what he did.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Barnack

[redfirebird2008]

1 hour ago, grey ghost said:

Liberals hate the troops. Yet Obama brought most of them home and never insulted POWs and gold star families or dodged the draft. And Democrats are rarely the ones voting against more funding for veteran services.

 

 

 

Obama was born too late to attempt draft dodging. Bill Clinton dodged it though. 

[Hatebox]

2 hours ago, JonathanLB said:

Chris Kyle was a hero unlike most of the whiny little Social Justice Warriors who don’t do a goddamn thing to make their country a better place. In fact they actively make it a worse place to live by their constant bitching about everything, including a great movie like American Sniper. Maybe they should learn what a hero looks like - it’s not a goateed man-bun wearing little hipster in a coffee shop pontificating about our heteronormative gender binary country. It’s someone who puts his life on the line to protect that little clueless Che Guevara hero worshipper so he can pontificate into the future from the safety of American soil. Maybe some of these people will grow up one day and learn that! I won’t hold my breath though.

GOD BLESS AMURICA!!!

[MrGlass2]

2 hours ago, JonathanLB said:

Chris Kyle was a hero unlike most of the whiny little Social Justice Warriors who don’t do a goddamn thing to make their country a better place. In fact they actively make it a worse place to live by their constant bitching about everything, including a great movie like American Sniper. Maybe they should learn what a hero looks like - it’s not a goateed man-bun wearing little hipster in a coffee shop pontificating about our heteronormative gender binary country. It’s someone who puts his life on the line to protect that little clueless Che Guevara hero worshipper so he can pontificate into the future from the safety of American soil. Maybe some of these people will grow up one day and learn that! I won’t hold my breath though.

[grey ghost]

1 hour ago, redfirebird2008 said:

 

Obama was born too late to attempt draft dodging. Bill Clinton dodged it though. 

Draft dodging is sometimes bad. (Muhammad Ali had valid reasons)

 

Being a CHICKEN HAWK who insults POWs and gold star families is on another level of cowardice, hypocrisy and disrespect to those who served.

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by grey ghost

[MCKillswitch123]

4 hours ago, JonathanLB said:

Chris Kyle was a hero unlike most of the whiny little Social Justice Warriors who don’t do a goddamn thing to make their country a better place. In fact they actively make it a worse place to live by their constant bitching about everything, including a great movie like American Sniper. Maybe they should learn what a hero looks like - it’s not a goateed man-bun wearing little hipster in a coffee shop pontificating about our heteronormative gender binary country. It’s someone who puts his life on the line to protect that little clueless Che Guevara hero worshipper so he can pontificate into the future from the safety of American soil. Maybe some of these people will grow up one day and learn that! I won’t hold my breath though.

 

Havin' fun with them Big Macs and gun laws?

 

@CJohn So glad we're from a place in this world that knows better.

Edited January 23, 2018 by MCKillswitch123

[Barnack]

11 hours ago, Harpospoke said:

The funny thing to me about a political movie is how futile it is.

 

The people that go see it already agree with the message.   Kinda like hoping to convert more people to heavy metal music by hosting a heavy metal concert.   Guess who shows up to the concert?    Not a lot of jazz fans out there.

 

So a political movie ends up with a crowd of people nodding their heads in agreement who agreed before they sat down.  "Right on!"

That is often true on that sense (Some exception obviously, like Avatar did reach people that didn't agree with it I would imagine, Casablanca was seen by isolationists, etc...)

 

But movie are not about learning things at a rational level and political opinions and even more so actions are not rationally motivated, they need an emotional involvement to push people into actions.

 

If you poll people, almost everyone is for an healthy, good and free press, I imagine but it is not all of them that subscribe to newspaper's and read them to take responsibility to make that happen, that is were a movie can "work".

 

Take for example, everyone that saw that Alan Kurdi photo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Alan_Kurdi

 

Had already the opinion before seeing it that the refugee crisis was terrible and their country should do some minimal effort to help, rationally seeing that photo changed nothing at all for 99% people (or any figure), emotional involvement to support/put pressure on their government and agreeing to have their tax money spent on it is what changed and not for any rational reason, they learned nothing new, they felt something new. That was cinema can do.