The Odd Case of the Disappearence of the “Non-Franchise” Film

[John Marston]

Knew this thread would basically be people crying about Booksmart flopping even though it has no stars and doesn’t stand out in any way? Lol

[The Panda]

56 minutes ago, CoolEric258 said:

Matt Zoller Seitz made a gigantic Twitter thread about this months ago, and he mentioned the biggest issue comes down to ticket prices.

 

 

 

 

This can also apply to what's selling at the moment. People are way more choosy, and want something that will give them their money's worth, both in quality and in the theatrical experience. So remakes and franchises reign supreme in that regard. It's familiar, so for many, it's not worth the risk. And that also applies to the non-franchise films that are currently hitting.

 

Looking at last year, Bohemian Rhapsody and A Star is Born benefit from surround sound playing awesome music full blast. Bohemian also benefits from songs people are familiar with. The Grinch is an iconic IP that's loved by all ages. A Quiet Place's concept basically forces people to stay quiet as a mouse throughout the movie ("I get to see a movie without annoying patrons? Ticket for me!"). Crazy Rich Asians not only was the first major representation for Asian-Americans in decades, but it also had gorgeous scenic shots of Singapore plastered on the big screen. The Meg and Rampage had giant monsters, whose impact can't be recreated on a TV or laptop. Ready Player One had spectacle for days (I know some people think that movie's ugly, but it certainly appealed to some people). And even A Wrinkle in Time had spectacle and minority representation that is still not that common.

 

The only two movies from last year that didn't fall into any categories that make something "worthy of seeing in a theater' were Peter Rabbit and The Mule. And even then, those movies got help from the time they released (Peter Rabbit was literally the only thing that appealed to little kids, while The Mule was out on Christmas, when people didn't have work or school, and had literally nothing else to do).

Wages is an interesting argument to make, but I’m not sure if it really paints the full picture or not.  

 

Stagnating wages has been true for a long long period of time (and yes you do see sequels become more prevalent over time), but you see the sudden drop-off in the 2010s decade.  This is where something like Netflix or the success the MCU model had can come in.

 

Im not sold that if real wages increased again that we’d necessarily see a return to non-franchise filmmaking.  Streaming services will still remain a strong substitute.

[That One Girl]

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Edited March 2, 2022 by That One Guy

[filmlover]

11 minutes ago, John Marston said:

Knew this thread would basically be people crying about Booksmart flopping even though it has no stars and doesn’t stand out in any way? Lol

Stick to complaining endlessly about what a so-called "flop" Toy Story 4 is.

[Cap]

They took away my MoviePass.

 

I am only half joking. 

 

This was my 2018

 

New Releases: 48

Special Screenings: 12

Repeats: Avengers: Infinity War (x11); Black Panther (x5); Love, Simon (x3); Ant-Man And The Wasp (x2); Crazy Rich Asians (x2); I, Tonya (x2); Ocean's Eight (x2), The Shape Of Water (x2), Won't You Be My Neighbor? (x2), Spider-man: Into the Spiderverse (x2), Mary Poppins Returns (x2)

Total: 84

 

This is my 2019

 

New Release: 14

Special Screenings: 2

Repeats: Avengers: Endgame (x10), Captain Marvel (x5), Rocketman (x2)

Total: 30

 

Looking at the rest of the year, I count 15 releases I will probably trek out for, with Frozen II and Knives Out the only candidates for multiple viewings. 

 

So I will probably be 1/2 of 2018 when the dust settles.

 

 

I think CoolEric’s point is very strong. This all comes down to prices. When I basically was getting a free ride / good deal, I went to the movies all the time. Now that I am having to pick up the full tab, I am way more... lazy. 

 

Why leave my house?  The other difference is entertainment has changed over the past decade. With the raise of mainstream video gaming, Streaming TV, and YouTube Channels and Personalities, there are more options for you to spend your money. Because we are moving more and more toward niche markets, you also can stay home and find exactly what you want on TV or in video games that movies are not providing.

[lorddemaxus]

Wow, this sounds alien to me. I am only able to watch movies (almost always blockbusters) once a month (sometimes twice) in cinemas where I live because it's pretty expensive but I was able to watch 4 movies in a week when I went to visit America last summer. And two of them were not blockbusters (Sorry to Bother You and Won't You Be My Neighbor). This is something I would never do where I live because of how much more they cost. But that's me as a tourist speaking. Maybe I'll feel different when I move to America in a few months.

Edited July 6, 2019 by lorddemaxus

[JB33]

1 hour ago, The Panda said:

Wages is an interesting argument to make, but I’m not sure if it really paints the full picture or not.  

 

Stagnating wages has been true for a long long period of time (and yes you do see sequels become more prevalent over time), but you see the sudden drop-off in the 2010s decade.  This is where something like Netflix or the success the MCU model had can come in.

 

Im not sold that if real wages increased again that we’d necessarily see a return to non-franchise filmmaking.  Streaming services will still remain a strong substitute.

A resounding YES! from me to that MZS guy. He brings up a great point. It's a problem beyond movies obviously. Everything, including most importantly the cost of living, has skyrocketed but not wages. It's a gigantic issue facing society going forward. It seems like soon we'll only have those who are rich and those who are just over/under the poverty line and living paycheque to paycheque.

[Legion Again]

I think part of this is that franchise movies got better. Just look at the MCU. Obviously not every single person can like any movie (okay, except Paddington 2 ) but the audience reception as a whole is incredibly good. Didn’t it used to be that sequels were rarer because there was a perception they tended not to do that well because they tended to be worse than the original?

Edited July 6, 2019 by Thanos Legion

[Eric Duncan]

4 hours ago, The Panda said:

Wages is an interesting argument to make, but I’m not sure if it really paints the full picture or not.  

 

Stagnating wages has been true for a long long period of time (and yes you do see sequels become more prevalent over time), but you see the sudden drop-off in the 2010s decade.  This is where something like Netflix or the success the MCU model had can come in.

 

Im not sold that if real wages increased again that we’d necessarily see a return to non-franchise filmmaking.  Streaming services will still remain a strong substitute.

Obviously that's not the main factor, but it's certainly a big one. If people can't afford, or can only go to the movies so many times, they want something they know, or at least something they can trust to have a good time.

 

This is anecdotal of course, but both of my parents got laid off during the Recession, which hurt my family crazy hard. They had to do a bunch of odd jobs to make ends meet, my brother and I had to take care of my sisters more often, we barely got to travel or do anything fun. When it comes to movies, not only did my parents barely go during that time, but it was pretty much either movies they heard were really good from friends (The Dark Knight), or based on brands and names they already like or have a lot of trust in (Pixar, Dreamworks, Sex and the City, Harry Potter, Langdon. As you can see, they really only went whenever my sibilngs and I pestered them, with a couple exceptions). Obviously things aren't anywhere near as bad as the Recession era, but tickets are still a wee bit costly compared to plenty of other entertainment options that it just feels better to go for what's safe.

 

@captainwondyful also brings up a good point about MoviePass. When you take away a service that basically gave you free tickets, even if you did just fine without it, there's a weird thing in your brain where things cost way more money without it, even if it isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things. It's why streaming is so popular. And even with A-List or the upcoming Regal ticket service, only having it available for one chain still isn't the most ideal, especially if you live nearby a mom-and-pop or non-profit theater.

[The GOAT]

• Stagnate/Lower Wages for middle / lower class. 
• Evolution of streaming services and home media entertainment (4k tvs and renting movies digitally)
• Rising Ticket prices ($15 for regular ticket in SoCal)
• Rise of Internet and Social Media.

 

[Morieris]

Anything that had to be said has already been said. We, as film pundits, will go see any kind of movie that strikes our fancy, but people will also see an MCU movie 8+ times. 

 

Do what you want, but we do contribute a bit to the problem. I say this as someone who saw "Black Panther" twice in the theater.

 

I've seen 4 movies in theaters this year (The other 2019 movies I just waited for digital), and two of them ("Us", "Fighting With My Family") were 'original' "Aladdin" wasn't, and "Alita"...kind of sorta wasn't. Well, it's an adaptation. 

 

The only other movie I have to see in theaters this year is "Rise of Skywalker". Nothing's interesting, from franchises to standalones this year for me (and apparently many others) since they pushed back Sonic and Artemis.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Morieris

[Darth Lehnsherr]

Thinking we're reaching saturation point with franchise films that even though so many of them underperform they still make some money which just sucks up the potential dollar that could be given to non-IP films instead. 

 

A bit unrelated but it's also important to note how we in the past 5 years we haven't really had many new franchise starters. All the major franchises today are at least 10 years old (thank goodness one exception is John Wick).

Edited July 7, 2019 by Darth Lehnsherr

[Mekanos]

Am I the only one that keeps mixing up Booksmart and Book Club?

 

Anyway, it's all been said. Movie ticket prices are ridiculous and if you have a family of 4-5, it better be something really awesome. I either go to the movies by myself or with friends who pay for their own ticket so it's not really an issue there, but I'm also a big fan of the theater experience like I assume other film fans here are. The problem is Hollywood is losing young adult audiences; people 16-25 go to the movies less than any other demographic, easily. They have the least amount of money and most amount of options for other, cheaper entertainment. In a few years people will grow up without the experience of "what movie do we wanna see this weekend?" that was so central to many people's experiences growing up, including myself.

 

Either it's gonna be all Marvel, all the time, or ticket prices go down. That's really it. The more Disney expands, the more it's gonna be all Marvel. Not just because of their own success, but because other companies want to emulate them.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Mekanos

[Legion Again]

17 minutes ago, Darth Lehnsherr said:

Thinking we're reaching saturation point with franchise films that even though so many of them underperform they still make some money which just sucks up the potential dollar that could be given to non-IP films instead. 

 

A bit unrelated but it's also important to note how we in the past 5 years we haven't really had many new franchise starters. All the major franchises today are at least 10 years old (thank goodness one exception is John Wick).

Despicable Me is only 9 years old       

 

Hunger Games is kind-of an active franchise, in that there’s a prequel movie expected. 7 years old (books are older of course).

 

But yeah, I hadn’t really thought before about what a barren decade the 2010s were for new franchises. I guess it’s also the only decade with 21 movies from one franchise in it.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Thanos Legion

[CJohn]

No MCU, no buy. This is how the GA works now.

[Mekanos]

The internet has also completely changed how word of mouth spreads. 

 

Two weeks before the movie is out, critics are already talking it up.

 

One week before the Rotten Tomatoes score drops.

 

One day before people from Australia talk about the movie (good or bad).

 

Thursday night/Friday morning all the diehard fans have already rushed to seen it and talk about how mindblowing it is/how stupid and dumb it is. By Monday the movie is basically already decided on in the public's mind. Yes, exceptions exist, sometimes you get a Jumanji, but by and large audiences will figure out if they like the movie or not before the second weekend even starts. While obviously there are still many older moviegoers who generally ignore the internet buzz, it's huge for the 20/30 somethings and will continue to be huge as they grow up and continue these habits. 

[TMP]

47 minutes ago, CJohn said:

No MCU, no buy

You say that like it's a bad thing...

[Morieris]

1 hour ago, Darth Lehnsherr said:

A bit unrelated but it's also important to note how we in the past 5 years we haven't really had many new franchise starters. All the major franchises today are at least 10 years old (thank goodness one exception is John Wick).

 

Kingsman? Then again I have no idea how the second one did.

[filmlover]

1 hour ago, Mekanos said:

The problem is Hollywood is losing young adult audiences; people 16-25 go to the movies less than any other demographic, easily.

This is pretty accurate tbh. Then again, Hollywood has long assumed that teenage boys are the main demographic that needs to be catered to despite all the evidence of otherwise.

[Cap]

3 hours ago, CoolEric258 said:

And even with A-List or the upcoming Regal ticket service, only having it available for one chain still isn't the most ideal, especially if you live nearby a mom-and-pop or non-profit theater.

Just want to quote this for the people in the back.  I would love a subscription program.  But my local theater is regional with only 8 locations.  You'd need the smaller theater to agree to work as a bloc for it to work.