BOT's top 100 black and white films the countdown is done

[Porthos]

36 minutes ago, captainwondyful said:

Oh.  It did.  Wilder made the film WITHOUT the approval of the Hayes Code (aka the pre-MPAA).  The Catholic League of Decency condemned it for being “seriously offensive to Christian and traditional standards of morality and decency.”  It was BANNED in Kansas.   

Yep. And the smash hit nature of it helped accelerate the demise of the already in decline by then Hays Code.

 

It'd stick around for a while, as these things take time to die/evolve into something else.  But the fact that this was successful without the seal of approval from the MPAA was a huge sign that the Hays Code's days were numbered.  At least when it came to forbidding this type of film from getting a wide release.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Porthos
Hays not Hayes - sorry

[cannastop]

49 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Yep. And the smash hit nature of it helped accelerate the demise of the already in decline by then Hayes Code.

 

It'd stick around for a while, as these things take time to die/evolve into something else.  But the fact that this was successful without the seal of approval from the MPAA was a huge sign that the Hayes Code's days were numbered.  At least when it came to forbidding this type of film from getting a wide release.

What about when Looney Tunes cartoons would call out the Hays Code by name in the 1940s?

Edited July 29, 2019 by cannastop

[Porthos]

25 minutes ago, cannastop said:

What about when Looney Tunes cartoons would call out the Hayes Code by name in the 1940s?

 

Well, that's the thing, isn't it?  I'm far from an expert on this.  But the Hays Code was never 100 percent applied rigidly with an iron fist of no exceptions.

 

If you look at the actual Hays Code, of "don'ts" and "be careful"  it's a wonder any film was ever made then (note that Wikipedia link says "some revisions were made to the proposed code", so don't take that list as gospel but more of the general sense of the initial Code).

 

Even from the beginning there were fights over it and attempts to weaken/flaunt it.   Just judging by the Wikipedia article (I know I know) it was probably more down to the power of Joseph Breen and a fear of federal censorship than anything else.  But even in the 40s and 50s attempts were made to get around it. Some more successful than others.

 

But mocking the code, like you mentioned? Well, that would be "okay" presumably because those shorts were damn popular and money makers "no one pays attention to such cartoons and thus won't be morally sinful".

 

When it comes right down to it, the Hays Code was self-censorship.  And thus it would be far easier to grant oneself exemptions/get around the rules than it would be with various censorship board that were around at the time.

 

---

 

I leave other discussion about this to our resident film historians/experts. 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Porthos
Again, Hays not Hayes

[Tower]

 

11

To Kill A Mockingbird

Points: 141

Number of lists: 10

Year: 1962

Director: Robert Mulligan

First place votes: 0

Top 5 (2-5): 1

Top 10 (6-10): 2

Average position: 25.5

 

The last film to miss out on the top 10 is one of the obvious heavy hitters that was always going to feature on this list. I didn't have it quite as high as this, but it's still a good and welcome addition to it.

[Cap]

26 minutes ago, Porthos said:

I leave other discussion about this to our resident film historians/experts. 

My favorite anecdote about the Hays Code was there was a limit on long a couple could kiss on screen.  I want to say it was like :30 seconds or something silly like that.  So Hitchcock said the hell with that during Notorious.  Instead he had his romantic leads Grant and Bergman embrace for two and a half minutes on screen, breaking up the kisses so they wouldn't go over the limit.  

 

In results in one of the sexiest scenes on film:

 

 

 

[Porthos]

17 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Even from the beginning there were fights over it and attempts to weaken/flaunt it.   Just judging by the Wikipedia article (I know I know) it was probably more down to the power of Joseph Breen and a fear of federal censorship than anything else.  But even in the 40s and 50s attempts were made to get around it. Some more successful than others.

I wanted to add something to this that folks might not know about or didn't think much about.

 

In the States,  nowadays we take a pretty expansive view of the free speech aspects of the First Amendment for granted.  But back then, the Supreme Court had previously unanimously ruled that motion pictures had no First Amendment protection. 

 

There was a very real fear that the patchwork local film censorship boards would be superseded by a national one.  So Hollywood decided to beat them to the punch and say "All okay here, boss.  No need to step in and stick your nose where it isn't wanted."

 

But by the late 50s a series of Supreme Court rulings had all but done away with the rationale of the Hays Code.  First one was probably the "Paramount Decision" that (mostly) banned studios from owning theaters.  This let filmmakers go outside the studio system to distribute their films, as well as more of an opening for foreign films that were outside the Hays Code.

 

The other big one would be when the Supreme Court did an about face and said that movies (and other art) did in fact have First Amendment protection with the famous "Miracle Decision".  

 

After those two rulings and other societal developments, the writing really was on the wall for the Code.

[TalismanRing]

1 hour ago, Tower said:

 

12

Some Like It Hot

Points: 139.25

Number of lists: 11

Year: 1959

Director: Billy Wilder

First place votes: 0

Top 5 (2-5): 1

Top 10 (6-10): 3

Average position: 29.8

 

Billy Wilder returns for a leading 5th time in this cross dressing comedy. Actually, because of the time I would have thought that having cross dressing and homosexuality would have caused more of a problem, but it didn't seem to and became a big success at the box office.

Maybe the best ending scene and line of all time.

 

Reportedly the original line was "I know" but they were forced to change it (so Wilder bent - a wee bit)

 

 

 

[DAR]

3 hours ago, Tower said:

 

14

It's A Wonderful Life

Points: 134.5

Number of lists: 8

Year: 1946

Director: Frank Capra

First place votes: 2

Top 5 (2-5): 1

Top 10 (6-10): 0

Average position: 22.1

 

Our first entry with 2 number votes, and also Capra's 4th film bringing us to a 6 way tie for directors. If you want my opinion though, you can read my (scathing) review over at the "review that movie!" section.

I don’t hate the film. But I am puzzled by its popularity 

[Cap]

13 minutes ago, DAR said:

I don’t hate the film. But I am puzzled by its popularity 

The cynical answer is it fell out of copyright back in the 1970s when NBC picked it up and started airing in the US at Christmas as a tradition.  A whole generation of people have grown up with it as "the Christmas Movie".  (Despite upon its initial release being considered a flop.)

 

The sentimental answer is: ... I have to go show a house and can't write out an 1000k essay on how George Bailey is All That Is Good And Prue and every scene in the movie makes me cry.

Edited July 29, 2019 by captainwondyful

[terrestrial]

1 hour ago, captainwondyful said:

"the Christmas Movie"

we do not have The X-Mas movie here, but a ~ short play that gets aired every year at 31 December later afternoon or early evening = this version, in English, depending on the station with an intro / before explanation in German. Really not needed, as self-explanatory

 

 

[Tower]

 

10

Paths Of Glory

Points: 142

Number of lists: 11

Year: 1957

Director: Stanley Kubrick

First place votes: 0

Top 5 (2-5): 0

Top 10 (6-10): 2

Average position:  30.5

 

Didn't realise that this film had so much support. I thought it was OK, but too preachy. This film's content was considered controversial enough to get banned in various European countries, and US military bases.

[Jake Gittes]

Two Kubricks in the top 10 yessss

[Tower]

 

9

Sunset Boulevard

Points: 157

Number of lists: 10

Year: 1950

Director: Billy Wilder

First place votes: 0

Top 5 (2-5): 2

Top 10 (6-10): 1

Average position:  24.6

 

An obvious inclusion high up on this list. A film widely considered one of the all time greats, a sentiment I share. The sixth Wilder film putting him 2 clear of the rest.

[Avatree]

Should have waited until next year for this list so all the pompous "cinephiles" on the board can put The Lighthouse at #1.

[Tower]

 

8

Citizen Kane

Points: 161.5

Number of lists: 12

Year: 1941

Director: Orson Welles

First place votes: 0

Top 5 (2-5): 3

Top 10 (6-10): 1

Average position:  28.1

 

Quite a few years ago now, I tried watching this film as my first black and white film. I ended up hating it so much that I stopped in the middle and figured that these old black and white films just aren't for me. The whole ordeal may have delayed my watching of these films for a few years. eventually though I did see some and realised that they're fine. Eventually I got around to making this list at which point I figured that I should really make sure to see all the most known stuff, including the entirety of Citizen Kane, hoping that my tastes have changed. 

 

And the result... I found it to be fine. I still think that a top 10 on this list or its accolade as one of the greatest ever is far too much, but it was good enough to make it somewhere on my list, and my strong hate for it just seems like young foolishness now.

[baumer]

Citizen Kane is a putrid piece of trash. 

[baumer]

Allow me to repeat:

 

Citizen Kane is a horribly awful film. 

[Tower]

 

7

Seven Samurai

Points: 172.5

Number of lists: 11

Year: 1954

Director: Akira Kurosawa

First place votes: 1

Top 5 (2-5): 1

Top 10 (6-10): 1

Average position:  27.5

 

Akira Kurosawa returns for the fifth time in what is the longest film on this list. The popularity of the film didn't just stay in Japan, but got several international remakes.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Tower

[Tower]

 

6

Young Frankenstein

Points: 187

Number of lists: 10

Year: 1974

Director: Mel Brooks

First place votes: 0

Top 5 (2-5): 2

Top 10 (6-10): 3

Average position: 15.5

 

Mel Brooks smashes expectations by making it all the way to number 6, destroying the original film this one parodies in the process. O ye of little faith @Porthos, who thought that it not showing up by number 30 meant it wouldn't show up at all, how little did you know.

[Porthos]

9 minutes ago, Tower said:

 

6

Young Frankenstein

Points: 187

Number of lists: 10

Year: 1974

Director: Mel Brooks

First place votes: 0

Top 5 (2-5): 2

Top 10 (6-10): 3

Average position: 15.5

 

Mel Brooks smashes expectations by making it all the way to number 6, destroying the original film this one parodies in the process. O ye of little faith @Porthos, who thought that it not showing up by number 30 meant it wouldn't show up at all, how little did you know.

Probably because if I sent in a list it would have been somewhere in the 11 to 15 range.

 

There are a lot of great B&W films out there, after all.

 

Not gonna complain about the recognition of the film though. 👍