The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Spidey Freak]

27 minutes ago, Hatebox said:

this forum has always had a weird, naval-gazing habit of claiming threads are so much worse than they are. Never understood it. 

 

Sometimes exaggerated, but the Department of Nuclear Energy had officially declared the Ghostbusters 2016 thread as a toxic wasteland

 

The period after the advent of DCEU and the SW trilogy in general was radioactive, which warranted creating the Franchise Wars thread in the first place. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Spidey Freak

[eddyxx]

6 hours ago, John Marston said:

 

 

I feel like interest completely died probably as soon as the plot was announced, You needed to Civil War this movie badly and they didn't 

Honestly I got deflated when I read the spoiler leak like 2 years ago and then all the promo material ended up proving it was real.

[Spidey Freak]

7 hours ago, TheFlatLannister said:

Even with the strike, there is no way an MCU sequel should be tracking below $10M previews. There is an undeniable apathy from the fans and GA regarding Captain Marvel. Feige needs some culpability in this because Carol Danvers wasn't given enough time to shine in other projects and people maybe forgot about her. 

 

In hindsight, Shuri and the Women of Wakanda actually fared incredibly well without T'Challa or an appearance from a more famous MCU heavyweight in WF

[eddyxx]

As a Marvel fan who is disappointed in the MCU, this thread is tame as hell compared to BvS, Justice league, and amazing Spider-Man 2.

[Zakiyyah6]

18 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

In hindsight, Shuri and the Women of Wakanda actually fared incredibly well without T'Challa or an appearance from a more famous MCU heavyweight in WF

People needed hindsight to realize that? Black Panther lost its lead. Not its co-lead like Fast & Furious did but its actual only lead. The reviews were fine but nowhere near as effusive as the original, outside of Bassett's performance of course. 859M was a very good number. If it had been as well received as the original I think it could have hit like 950M. 

 

Personally, I always thought The Marvels would drop sans Endgame boost but I am stunned by how bad the pre-sales are in the countries that we have info on. 580M was the absolute lowest that I saw it going but now that is the best case scenario. Unless this film has unprecedented legs, we are going to be discussing this drop forever. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Zakiyyah6

[judestar619]

13 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

In hindsight, Shuri and the Women of Wakanda actually fared incredibly well without T'Challa or an appearance from a more famous MCU heavyweight in WF

Yeah I find it interesting just how much more staying power Black Panther had as a movie despite only making 200M more than Captain Marvel. The hype that movie had in 2018 was genuinely organic, whereas even the audiences that liked the original Captain Marvel seem to not actually care about her as a character all that much.

[HummingLemon496]

2 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

People needed hindsight to realize that? Black Panther lost its lead. Not its co-lead like Fast & Furious did but its actual only lead. The reviews were fine but nowhere near as effusive as the original, outside of Bassett's performance of course. 859M was a very good number. If it had been as well received as the original I think it could have hit like 950M. 

 

Personally, I always thought The Marvels would drop sans Endgame boost but I am stunned by how bad the pre-sales are in the countries that we have info on. 580M was the absolute lowest that I saw it going to go but now that is the best case scenario. Unless this film has unprecedented legs, we are going to be discussing this drop forever. 

Yeah $450M+ domestic with a movie basically made of side characters is nothing to sneeze at

[judestar619]

I know people say the original Captain Marvel is mediocre which has caused the sequel to sink like a rock without the Endgame boost, but audiences did genuinely like it back in 2019. That A cinemascore and good legs that pushed the film to a billion can't be denied, what I'm interested in is what came after, what caused interest in the character to completely evaporate to the point that it's going to have an actual record-breaking drop. Whereas characters like Thor coasted off the goodwill of their last installment despite mixed reviews.

[Zakiyyah6]

6 minutes ago, judestar619 said:

I know people say the original Captain Marvel is mediocre which has caused the sequel to sink like a rock without the Endgame boost, but audiences did genuinely like it back in 2019. That A cinemascore and good legs that pushed the film to a billion can't be denied, what I'm interested in is what came after, what caused interest in the character to completely evaporate to the point that it's going to have an actual record-breaking drop. Whereas characters like Thor coasted off the goodwill of their last installment despite mixed reviews.

I think the film is mediocre but I think most people enjoyed the film in 2019 but I never saw a lot of proof that Carol as a character stuck with audiences. Man of Steel got an A- Cinemascore and people just never seemed to like Cavill's Superman. I know that the comparison isn't perfect but I'm using it anyway. Hemsworth is incredibly charming as Thor and Thor is a good distinctive character.

 

Also people still had excitement for the MCU in 2022, even post Eternals blunder. Larson's Carol like Cavill's Superman is too stoic and lacking a distinctive personality most of the time. Carol gets her obligatory MCU humor moments in CM but those moments seem like blips on the radar. The MCU was largely built off of the backs of likable and interesting characters, hence why Shuri was a better lead than Carol Danvers despite being a darn side character. Captain Marvel not having that was always going to come back and bite any sequel in the butt. 

[DInky]

50 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

In hindsight, Shuri and the Women of Wakanda actually fared incredibly well without T'Challa or an appearance from a more famous MCU heavyweight in WF

 

Wakanda Forever had the "Heath Ledger effect" going for it. Chadwick Boseman wasn't in the movie but the film was all about saying goodbye to him and the character. I don't think another Shuri-lead Black Panther movie would do well.

Edited November 1, 2023 by DInky

[TwoMisfits]

7 hours ago, Bob Train said:

They succeeded in making people aware of The Marvels, as is shown by metrics like Quorum and Fandango polls. They completely failed at making people interested in it. 

 

Yes, there's been promotion showing this movie everywhere, but nothing that got folks to say "I want to see it" - knowledge of the movie coming out is immense, probably higher than FNAF was if you count all age groups...

[Zakiyyah6]

4 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

Yes, there's been promotion showing this movie everywhere, but nothing that got folks to say "I want to see it" - knowledge of the movie coming out is immense, probably higher than FNAF was if you count all age groups...

Another reason that I don't buy the excuse that the actresses not promoting it is knocking 50M off of its opening weekend. 

[Dominic Draper]

Marvel stans spent like 10 years relentlessly and obnoxiously attacking and trolling DC, Fox and Sony, making every discussion anywhere a total disaster and impossible.

 

They are getting back about 10% of the energy they put out and are having complete meltdowns and cranking up the victim complex. Pretty hilarious to see.

[Kon]

16 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

Wakanda Forever had the "Heath Ledger effect" going for it. Chadwick Boseman wasn't in the movie but the film was all about saying goodbye to him and the character. I don't think another Shuri-lead Black Panther movie would do well.

 

This is likely true.

 

Wakanda Forever worked as a goodbye for Chadwick Boseman. That likely attracted more attention on the movie.

[SpiderByte]

Ehhh Ledger is a pretty bad comparison. Ledger was still in The Dark Knight. They promoted that Shuri was the new Black Panther before the film was released.

Edited November 1, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Liiviig 1998]

46 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Yeah $450M+ domestic with a movie basically made of side characters is nothing to sneeze at

Black panther and Wakanda forever are two  highest grossing MCU solo films domestically. That's quite impressive on its own.

 

 

 

[Torontofan]

9 minutes ago, Kon said:

 

This is likely true.

 

Wakanda Forever worked as a goodbye for Chadwick Boseman. That likely attracted more attention on the movie.

Wakanda Forever also benefited from the fact that Black Panther set up an interesting world and setting and people wanted to see more of it while the Captain Marvel universe seems a bit boring.

 

 

Also Captain Marvel got the worlds biggest marketing boost in Infinity War. 

 

Infinity War likely had one of the biggest Cliffhanger endings for any major blockbuster in a generation. 

 

"half the universe is killed, half the avengers are dead and Nick Fury the person who started the avengers, called captain marvel to help! Who is this person that can help after the avengers failed to stop thanos"

 

This is the reason why Captain Marvel was a major hit movie. 

 

Without this I doubt Captain Marvel done over 800WW if it came out in 2017.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Torontofan

[Bob Train]

54 minutes ago, judestar619 said:

That A cinemascore

Par for the course for pre Endgame MCU movies

54 minutes ago, judestar619 said:

good legs

Legs were also boosted by Endgame

[DInky]

4 minutes ago, Torontofan said:

Without this I doubt Captain Marvel done over 800WW if it came out in 2017.

 

Even if the first movie made only 800M or even under that, the drop we're seeing right now would still be terrible.

[John Marston]

Black Panther 2 did fine but it still attracted a lot of curiosity due to how the movie would handle Boseman’s passing. It also had pretty average legs considering it had about 5 weeks of no competition. Black Panther 3 will definitely take another sizable drop 

Edited November 1, 2023 by John Marston