The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Ozymandias]

Sometime back when Captain Marvel came out, Brie Larson put her foot in her mouth onstage at one of those events(I don't know which one it was as I don't watch any of those things) about 'white film critics' prompting chuddy griftube to do what they do best and waaaaaaay overreact for outrage hate-clicks and make her public enemy #1.  Ever since, shes been their favorite pinjata, some of those accounts literally have like 100s of videos about Brie Larson lmao.

[grey ghost]

Do the dislikes really matter?

 

They clearly have nothing to do with the quality and they're invisible to most people, so...

[Mickiland16]

1 hour ago, grey ghost said:

Do the dislikes really matter?

 

They clearly have nothing to do with the quality and they're invisible to most people, so...

Exactly, this is probably going under Captain Marvel but not because of it or the reception of CM. It got an A Cinemascore and pretty good legs. ¿One of MCU best? No, but it was far from beign as hated as youtube make it seems. Also, going a bit out of topic, seeing other trailers like The Little Mermaid, Pinocchio, Peter Pan and Wendy and now this...I think there is a clear constant on what's the reason behind it. I don't want to get into a political debate but the real surprise would be if Captain America 4 doesn't get a similar fate (especially if She Hulk is on it). In the end it won't matter box office wise.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Mickiland16

[JustLurking]

1 hour ago, grey ghost said:

Do the dislikes really matter?

 

They clearly have nothing to do with the quality and they're invisible to most people, so...

No, but if people are going to cite dislikes they should still atleast know they are using an inflated number that isn't actually reflective of the real one.

[scytheavatar]

3 hours ago, Mickiland16 said:

Exactly, this is probably going under Captain Marvel but not because of it or the reception of CM. It got an A Cinemascore and pretty good legs. ¿One of MCU best? No, but it was far from beign as hated as youtube make it seems. Also, going a bit out of topic, seeing other trailers like The Little Mermaid, Pinocchio, Peter Pan and Wendy and now this...I think there is a clear constant on what's the reason behind it. I don't want to get into a political debate but the real surprise would be if Captain America 4 doesn't get a similar fate (especially if She Hulk is on it). In the end it won't matter box office wise.

 

There's far more examples of movies like Ghostbusters 2016 and Cats which after getting hated in the initial trailer struggled to ever gain traction.......... in general getting people to come watch your movie is hard. That's why trailers exist, they should be getting audiences excited to see your movie. If instead you are getting hate you should be concern and ask yourself what is happening.

[thajdikt]

25 minutes ago, scytheavatar said:

 

There's far more examples of movies like Ghostbusters 2016 and Cats which after getting hated in the initial trailer struggled to ever gain traction.......... in general getting people to come watch your movie is hard. That's why trailers exist, they should be getting audiences excited to see your movie. If instead you are getting hate you should be concern and ask yourself what is happening.

This literally happened with the first Captain Marvel, and plenty of people came to watch the movie. It´s just non-impactful noise. These people are not representative of the audience and never will be. They literally moaned about Mario being "woke" in regards to Peach weeks before the movie came out. After Mario crushed the box office they started to talk about how Mario was successful because it was "anti-woke. Their hate has nothing to do with the actual trailer itself. The people that actual matter has actually responded positively to the trailer. 

[JohnnyGossamer]

1 hour ago, scytheavatar said:

 

There's far more examples of movies like Ghostbusters 2016 and Cats which after getting hated in the initial trailer struggled to ever gain traction.......... in general getting people to come watch your movie is hard. That's why trailers exist, they should be getting audiences excited to see your movie. If instead you are getting hate you should be concern and ask yourself what is happening.

Not saying that The Marvels is going to break out at the box office or anything like... It'll do fine but won't break out and do huge numbers... But, that said, Ghostbusters 2016 (already established franchise that was extremely male centric) and Cats (did anyone really want this movie and the trailer/marketing is truly terrifying in terms of how they went about rendering it to the big screen) are horrible comparisons. Horrible ones.

 

We actually already have a movie that The Marvels is a sequel to that's a 1.1B+ grosser WW. Now, of course, Cap Marvel was boosted by being a lead in to Endgame and came during the peak of the superhero boom at the box office but even still... And, of course, while not horrible in the least, Captain Marvel is mid level tier MCU quality...  But, if the hate was what you mentioned, that would've grossed nothing close to what it did... As has been mentioned, the hate was there before it released as well. It was everywhere actually...  Literally had articles and YouTubers popping up with goofs saying that Disney was buying out theaters and tens of thousands of seats just to boost the box office totals. This being AFTER Wonder Woman was already a HUGE hit less than a year earlier. 

[JustLurking]

Ghostbusters and cats didn't tank because some people hated it, they tanked because they didn't actually appeal to anyone. They were bad films that even the audience that actually did go watch them did not like.

[poweranimals]

15 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

Ghostbusters and cats didn't tank because some people hated it, they tanked because they didn't actually appeal to anyone. They were bad films that even the audience that actually did go watch them did not like.

Except for John Campea. 😂

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

2 hours ago, scytheavatar said:

 

There's far more examples of movies like Ghostbusters 2016 and Cats which after getting hated in the initial trailer struggled to ever gain traction.......... in general getting people to come watch your movie is hard. That's why trailers exist, they should be getting audiences excited to see your movie. If instead you are getting hate you should be concern and ask yourself what is happening.

 

 

Counterargument.....

 

While Ghostbusters 2016 and Cats are both very poor films, their main box office problems were little to do with the quality or even the reception of the films.

 

Ghostbusters: Afterlife, which is a largely loved movie, barely has any different a box office than Ghostbusters 2016 (and it's overall lower, though there is a slight covid factor) - notably including its legs. Indeed, for all the cartwheels after its release it has less than x3 budget. Both did pretty horrendous numbers abroad.

 

So really the lesson there is that Ghostbusters has limited viability as a property, ESPECIALLY when it comes to foreign markets as it's basically a North America and to a lesser extent English Language only brand. And that the $144m handed to the 2016 movie was a preposterous budget to give to any Ghostbusters movie, whether or not it turns out poor.

 

Cats was widely perceived as an insane project well before the trailer came out. Because it was.

 

Surely the best comparison to Captain Marvel 2 is Captain Marvel 1, where the same thing happened.

 

Brie Larson, JK Rowling, Amber Heard, Kathleen Kennedy, Lizzo.....if only we could ever discern what the people who get insane levels of deeply affective, deeply permanent, scar-tissue levels of knee-jerk hate that dominates the conversation hysterically whenever their name so much as comes up - regardless of which direction it's coming from - have in common. I'm sure if we think really hard we could put our finger on it.

[dudalb]

13 hours ago, Mickiland16 said:

Exactly, this is probably going under Captain Marvel but not because of it or the reception of CM. It got an A Cinemascore and pretty good legs. ¿One of MCU best? No, but it was far from beign as hated as youtube make it seems. Also, going a bit out of topic, seeing other trailers like The Little Mermaid, Pinocchio, Peter Pan and Wendy and now this...I think there is a clear constant on what's the reason behind it. I don't want to get into a political debate but the real surprise would be if Captain America 4 doesn't get a similar fate (especially if She Hulk is on it). In the end it won't matter box office wise.

A Black Captain America is going to drive the Anti Woke crowd nuts.

[dudalb]

6 hours ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

 

Counterargument.....

 

While Ghostbusters 2016 and Cats are both very poor films, their main box office problems were little to do with the quality or even the reception of the films.

 

Ghostbusters: Afterlife, which is a largely loved movie, barely has any different a box office than Ghostbusters 2016 (and it's overall lower, though there is a slight covid factor) - notably including its legs. Indeed, for all the cartwheels after its release it has less than x3 budget. Both did pretty horrendous numbers abroad.

 

So really the lesson there is that Ghostbusters has limited viability as a property, ESPECIALLY when it comes to foreign markets as it's basically a North America and to a lesser extent English Language only brand. And that the $144m handed to the 2016 movie was a preposterous budget to give to any Ghostbusters movie, whether or not it turns out poor.

 

Cats was widely perceived as an insane project well before the trailer came out. Because it was.

 

Surely the best comparison to Captain Marvel 2 is Captain Marvel 1, where the same thing happened.

 

Brie Larson, JK Rowling, Amber Heard, Kathleen Kennedy, Lizzo.....if only we could ever discern what the people who get insane levels of deeply affective, deeply permanent, scar-tissue levels of knee-jerk hate that dominates the conversation hysterically whenever their name so much as comes up - regardless of which direction it's coming from - have in common. I'm sure if we think really hard we could put our finger on it.

This. I think Kennedy has made a lot of mistakes with her handling of Star Wars, but the level of hatred for her is truly bizarre.

What is amusing is that now just about everybody concedes the "One Star War Movie A Year" idea was a big mistake. but a lot of these people though it was great when it was announced.

Me, I have always known that quantity is often the enemy of quality and was skeptical.

[marveldcfox]

Music was cool, rest was meh.

[Krissykins]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:50 AM, scytheavatar said:

 

There's far more examples of movies like Ghostbusters 2016 and Cats which after getting hated in the initial trailer struggled to ever gain traction.......... in general getting people to come watch your movie is hard. That's why trailers exist, they should be getting audiences excited to see your movie. If instead you are getting hate you should be concern and ask yourself what is happening.

It’s not up to the creators or studio to ask what’s happening. Captain Marvel & Ghostbusters are both certified fresh. Those dislikes arent anything to do with the quality of the films. 
 

We know why certain people were spamming the dislike button. 

[Firepower]

30 minutes ago, Krissykins said:

Captain Marvel & Ghostbusters are both certified fresh.

Doesn't really mean anything though.

 

31 minutes ago, Krissykins said:

Those dislikes arent anything to do with the quality of the films. 

I'm pretty sure many people actually dislike Ghostbusters (2016) beyond just trolls.

[Krissykins]

7 hours ago, Firepower said:

Doesn't really mean anything though.

 

I'm pretty sure many people actually dislike Ghostbusters (2016) beyond just trolls.

Eh Trailer dislikes before the film came out obviously has nothing to do with the actual film, no one had seen it yet lol

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

The Ghostbusters (2016) trailer was poor but plenty of trailers have been poor without getting the kind of vitriol and pile-on that it did.

 

However....

 

I think the Fresh tomato is a little questionable in that case because I do think it was a then-unique situation where critics were so meta-aware of the debate and the moment was so heated that it felt like one was making a cultural choice. So I do think it was heavily over reviewed. Somewhat understandably.

 

I for one would put my hand up to say that I was very actively trying to see the best in the film when I first watched it.

 

Ultimately Ghostbusters is a high-concept, plot-driven conceit that Paul Feig inexplicably thought would work with laissez-faire improv comedy. Despite the original being tightly-written to within an inch of its life. There is nothing wrong in saying that such a conceit is broken at scaffolding level and he could have gotten the ghosts of Richard Pryor, Robin Williams, Buster Keaton and Lucille Ball together and that wouldn't have worked. 

 

But that applied once, ever. After that with Captain Marvel and the like the cultural knowledge and expectation was there and it felt like the over-countering that happened with 2016 just wasn't there on that next occasion.

 

CM is still underrated but it got good reviews on its own merits. Will The Marvels get caught up in a general slowdown for superhero movies? Maybe, perhaps probably. But it thankfully won't be because due to the bad-faith Dislike crowd. 

[ChipDerby]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:44 PM, Firepower said:

Doesn't really mean anything though.

 

I'm pretty sure many people actually dislike Ghostbusters (2016) beyond just trolls.

 

Those people are all wrong! It's the best one and I won't listen to any comments!

[poweranimals]

On 4/23/2023 at 3:30 AM, Krissykins said:

Eh Trailer dislikes before the film came out obviously has nothing to do with the actual film, no one had seen it yet lol

Trailers effect whether or not people see a movie though.

[Krissykins]

53 minutes ago, poweranimals said:

Trailers effect whether or not people see a movie though.

I think *those people* had already decided they wouldn’t be seeing the film. They just can’t resist the urge to scream it from the rooftops.