The Flash | June 16 2023 | Ezra Miller, Michael Keaton | We’re stoping the count at a Nice 69% RT (it’s 72% For Real) | Please Remember that Your Enjoyment Of The Film is Not Based On Others Opinions And To Be Nice To Each Other

[TomThomas]

15 hours ago, ddddeeee said:

He's not a character in this at all. It was depressing.

My Tobey experience in No Way Home.

[WorkingonaName]

Gonna have to see it happen to Hugh Jackman next year 

[ddddeeee]

Tobey was out of practice in NWH but he's quite clearly that awkward Peter twenty years later.

 

Keaton is just a bad plot device here. He's not the  lowkey eccentric loner who lives solely to save other people from going through what he did. That's fine - it's thirty years later, and he should have changed. But he's nobody in this movie. I couldn't give you one adjective to describe his personality. If someone told me a year ago that I'd love watching Miller in this and that Keaton's role would be my least favourite part....

 

Also, Muschietti doing Burton was literally just some fog for like thirty seconds of footage.

 

Having said all that, I am a weak male and seeing Keaton's Batman jump around to Elfman's theme did give me the cheap thrill that was intended.

[Sheldon Cr]

14 hours ago, WorkingonaName said:

Gonna have to see it happen to Hugh Jackman next year 

Very Unlikely.. But Not even Keaton or a bunch of legendary CGI cameos  could save this crap all.. Dang Flash Flops everywhere. In Asian  markets as well WOW!

[Sckathian]

21 hours ago, excel1 said:

Such a shame how about Fisher / Cybord. That character was a real stand out in ZSJL and could have been something "in another timeline".

ZSJL is his redemption but the design still doesn't work for me. ZS and WB made the error of trying to rush to JL. Should have all had individual films first to at least test out what worked. 

[poweranimals]

I finally saw the movie and I really enjoyed it. Admittedly, the science behind the time travel was a little confusing, but overall extremely fun. I asked my friend what he thought and he seemed to enjoy it but the conversation kept going back to how "It's dumb that they're recasting everyone." I brought up that the current universe was kind of a mess anyway which he agreed but that still didn't change his mind.

[dudalb]

I see that DC did damage control from this film's floppage with the Superman/Lois casting announcement.

[poweranimals]

1 hour ago, dudalb said:

I see that DC did damage control from this film's floppage with the Superman/Lois casting announcement.

I don't really know how that's damage control. Flash has already been out for two weeks and casting has completed. It's not like they can keep it a secret with the nosey trades.

[Human]

73% drop from last week.  Trying to at least beat Shazam 2's legs to not have the worst in DC history.

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

On 6/27/2023 at 3:17 AM, Sckathian said:

ZSJL is his redemption but the design still doesn't work for me. ZS and WB made the error of trying to rush to JL. Should have all had individual films first to at least test out what worked. 

 

 

I know it's rote at this point and it's a standard thing to say, but the big folly was Batman V Superman. Not the film itself (as divisive as it is) but even before that the very choice of that level of wad-blowing on the second film. 

 

Man of Steel 2 - Batman - Some kind of Palette cleanser - then BVS was an absolute minimum. 

 

It was somehow both clout chasing and defensive. As on the one hand the announcement of BVS caused ultra hype in what was always going to be *not the market you need because those are the people who would turn up anyway* but on the other I'm sure it was with one eye on the Nolan movies and thinking a standalone Affleck Batman movie would have been too close to a deeply (albeit to me rather strangely, but my opinion isn't relevant here) beloved trilogy and risked being divisive/rejected.

[TheDude391]

22 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

 

I know it's rote at this point and it's a standard thing to say, but the big folly was Batman V Superman. Not the film itself (as divisive as it is) but even before that the very choice of that level of wad-blowing on the second film. 

 

Man of Steel 2 - Batman - Some kind of Palette cleanser - then BVS was an absolute minimum. 

 

It was somehow both clout chasing and defensive. As on the one hand the announcement of BVS caused ultra hype in what was always going to be *not the market you need because those are the people who would turn up anyway* but on the other I'm sure it was with one eye on the Nolan movies and thinking a standalone Affleck Batman movie would have been too close to a deeply (albeit to me rather strangely, but my opinion isn't relevant here) beloved trilogy and risked being divisive/rejected.

BVS is patient zero of WB being TOO reactionary. "Oh Man of Steel didnt make a billion, BATMAN CROSSOVER JUSTICE LEAGUE NOW".

Spoiler

Also, doing a weird deconstructionist take as the basis of a cinematic universe is just lol. I kinda like the movie tbh but it should've been its own elseworlds thing.

 

[FunkMiller]

1 hour ago, TheDude391 said:

BVS is patient zero of WB being TOO reactionary. "Oh Man of Steel didnt make a billion, BATMAN CROSSOVER JUSTICE LEAGUE NOW".

  Hide contents

Also, doing a weird deconstructionist take as the basis of a cinematic universe is just lol. I kinda like the movie tbh but it should've been its own elseworlds thing.

 

 

They should have definitely showed a little patience, and made another Superman film, with a Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Flash film. Then gone in for Justice League, that would have introduced us to a new Batman.

 

Because a Justice League film that brings together the characters that are already in the public's consciousness AND advertising a brand new Batman? 1.5 billion easily.

Edited June 28, 2023 by FunkMiller

[PlatnumRoyce]

2 hours ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

wad-blowing on the second film. .

I think Batman v Superman's opening really was proof of concept and really shows how BvS/MoS was successfully drifting off of Nolan's goodwill.  You could easily sell an "elseworlds" Batman v. Superman movie as a big event completely separate from marketing a cinematic universe. It's just an inherently big-event idea (see Frank Miller's TDKR). 

 

I'll throw my hat in the ring for a banal takes and argue that Lex Luthor is the real problem in Batman v. Superman.  The film simply fails to transition between "BvS" and "Death of Superman" plots and the Eisenberg gives such a bad performance in a poorly conceived of role that he's pretty much just forgotten about in the infinite relitigating of the film. He was supposed to be one of the main tentpoles of Snyder's JL sequel. 

 

If you're making this movie, there's also really a way in which it has to be a stand alone Batman introduction. "Murder-Bat" in Batman v. Superman is just incompatible with having a preceding solo Batman film. That can be the position he starts a movie but studios wouldn't have allowed it to be a place he ends it (just look at weird upbeat ending to TASM2). There's a really strong idea anchoring the organic Batman v. Superman conflict in the first act (leaning into Superman-did-9/11 vibes that were criticized in Man of Steel) but the film can't get there in acts 2 & 3. This is tied into the failures of Snyder's big swings for operatic emotion but it's also just a failure of execution. 

 

 

[WittyUsername]

Once again, I must point out that BvS was in development before MoS was even released. Its existence was not a response to MoS being some financial disappointment. They already began storyboarding it by March of 2013. 

 

I also fundamentally disagree with the notion that BvS was made “too soon.” Batman did not need his own movie before that. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by WittyUsername

[dudalb]

5 hours ago, TheDude391 said:

BVS is patient zero of WB being TOO reactionary. "Oh Man of Steel didnt make a billion, BATMAN CROSSOVER JUSTICE LEAGUE NOW".

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, doing a weird deconstructionist take as the basis of a cinematic universe is just lol. I kinda like the movie tbh but it should've been its own elseworlds thing.

 

I think that is pretty much accepted by all the except the die hard Snyder fans that turning MOS 2 into BVS was a bad mistake.

I also think that the Second film with Cavill was way too soon to go for the "Death Of Superman" storyline, we needed to know Cavill's Supes better so his death would have more emotional impact then it did. And that is what surprises me, is despite the mixed reception that MOS got they allowed Snyder pretty much to do whatever he wanted.

BUT DC wanted to get to JL to get it's Avengers level profits,took ahortcuts  and in the end it backfired.

Edited June 28, 2023 by dudalb

[dudalb]

2 hours ago, WittyUsername said:

Once again, I must point out that BvS was in development before MoS was even released. Its existence was not a response to MoS being some financial disappointment. They already began storyboarding it by March of 2013. 

 

I also fundamentally disagree with the notion that BvS was made “too soon.” Batman did not need his own movie before that. 

Point is given the mixed reception of MOS, they should have taken a second look at whatever SNyder had in mind.

I agree that we did not necessary have to have Batman do a solo movie, but we did need another film with Cavill's Superman before going to the Death of Superman storyline.

Edited June 28, 2023 by dudalb

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

4 hours ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

I'll throw my hat in the ring for a banal takes and argue that Lex Luthor is the real problem in Batman v. Superman.  The film simply fails to transition between "BvS" and "Death of Superman" plots and the Eisenberg gives such a bad performance in a poorly conceived of role that he's pretty much just forgotten about in the infinite relitigating of the film. He was supposed to be one of the main tentpoles of Snyder's JL sequel. 

 

 

Yes, in another banal take that I'm not the first to make...if you're going to deconstruct superhero movies and the Superman myth, there's no reason that Lex Luthor and Bruce Wayne have any business being in the same movie as they can perform the same actorial function.

 

In a deconstructed Superman follow up to MOS, the Ben Affleck character - a rich man who becomes obsessed with the inherent danger of superheroes given the immense destruction he witnessed - should have simply *been* Lex Luthor.

 

Not that the deconstruction option was the best for your major superhero franchise rather than an elseworld as has been pointed out...but if you *were* going to do that, then you need to pick one or the other to be in the film and keep the other one completely off the screen.

 

 

 

[WittyUsername]

40 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

Yes, in another banal take that I'm not the first to make...if you're going to deconstruct superhero movies and the Superman myth, there's no reason that Lex Luthor and Bruce Wayne have any business being in the same movie as they can perform the same actorial function.

 

In a deconstructed Superman follow up to MOS, the Ben Affleck character - a rich man who becomes obsessed with the inherent danger of superheroes given the immense destruction he witnessed - should have simply *been* Lex Luthor.

 

Not that the deconstruction option was the best for your major superhero franchise rather than an elseworld as has been pointed out...but if you *were* going to do that, then you need to pick one or the other to be in the film and keep the other one completely off the screen.

 

 

 

Lex Luthor in BvS doesn’t hate Superman because he sees him as a threat though. He hates Superman because he’s an egotistical manchild who can’t stand having his worldview challenged. He simply takes advantage of Bruce Wayne’s fears. 

[tonytr87]

Blown away by how poorly this has performed. Just does not compute for me. The movie's not great but it's not bad at all, sometimes even flirts with greatness before the third act. I'm not sure what GA is hating given their lack of discernment elsewhere. Part of me is beginning to wonder if more people than we think know about the coming reboot. First Shazam 2 opens 20 mil lower than anticipated, now Flash opens 30 mil lower than anticipated. 

[eddyxx]

7 hours ago, FunkMiller said:

 

They should have definitely showed a little patience, and made another Superman film, with a Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Flash film. Then gone in for Justice League, that would have introduced us to a new Batman.

 

Because a Justice League film that brings together the characters that are already in the public's consciousness AND advertising a brand new Batman? 1.5 billion easily.

Yeah even at the time I thought it was a bone head idea to show the trinity for the first time outside of a Justice league film and not doing world’s finest before bvs? They could’ve easily have milked the franchise but they rushed into everything. Even showing the other JL members in cameos in bvs? Like really? And the death of Superman? Already? It’s like they did everything they could to rush through 10 years of stories in one movie. For fuck sake they even killed Robin before we met him.

Edited June 28, 2023 by eddyxx