Cmasterclay Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 minute ago, EmpireCity said: On what planet does it fit your criteria of what you said earlier. The movie is a hit, exactly as I said it would be. You made the claim, so what other movies did I say that were going to be a hit that didn't? I said Shang-Chi would. Free Guy. Venom 2. Bond. Dune. Shall I go on? You said Gucci was going to be a "huge hit" and it wasn't - it was just fine even by the new standards. You said Bond was going to be a huge hit and while it was worldwide, it was certainly a disappointment domestically. You said Peacock wasn't going to have an impact on Halloween Kills and it had some of the worst drops of all-time. You said Ghostbusters was going to be a massive crowdpleasing hit and it will finish lower than the 2016 version, which was apparently poorly received and didn't lean nearly as hard into nostalgia as this one. You were as right on Shang-Chi and Venom as anyone else - we all know that superhero movies are doing fine. I give you fair credit for Free Guy and Dune - you were higher than anyone else and those were good calls. Anyway, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. I advocated for you to not be suspended. I would recommend not continuing to treat everyone like an arrogant dick all the time. My posts may be annoying, but at least they aren't actively mean to others. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireCity Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Cmasterclay said: Yes, I'm sure more snarky posts from EmpireCity will overwhelm the fears of public health experts and the awful situation our box office and economy faces. How many times have you said something was about to be a "huge hit" and told people to stop worrying and gotten proven wrong in the last three months again? Also, you are predicting mass lockdowns and doom and gloom. The same thing was predicted back in August about Delta. I was one of a few that staunchly said at every chance that nothing was getting locked down again in the United States. I held firm that no studios were going to mass delay films. Nothing was locked down. Only a few select films delayed, and even a couple of those came right back on the Fall schedule. All forms of entertainment, education, sports and life carried right on. Same thing is going to be the case here. Nothing is going to lock down due to Omicron. Very little if anything is going to move release dates. No mass shut downs of entertainment or sports. I haven't been wrong about any of this and, quite frankly, someone here needs to say it out loud. There is far too much hysteria and doom and gloom in these threads. People need a dose of reality that the sky is no longer falling. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireCity Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Cmasterclay said: You said Gucci was going to be a "huge hit" and it wasn't - it was just fine even by the new standards. You said Bond was going to be a huge hit and while it was worldwide, it was certainly a disappointment domestically. You said Peacock wasn't going to have an impact on Halloween Kills and it had some of the worst drops of all-time. You said Ghostbusters was going to be a massive crowdpleasing hit and it will finish lower than the 2016 version, which was apparently poorly received and didn't lean nearly as hard into nostalgia as this one. You were as right on Shang-Chi and Venom as anyone else - we all know that superhero movies are doing fine. I give you fair credit for Free Guy and Dune - you were higher than anyone else and those were good calls. Anyway, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. I advocated for you to not be suspended. I would recommend not continuing to treat everyone like an arrogant dick all the time. My posts may be annoying, but at least they aren't actively mean to others. I'm not actively mean. Telling you something that is based on reality and fact that goes against your doom and gloom isn't "mean", it is being honest with you. These threads about the box office constantly get bogged down with this hysteria of lock downs and everything is going to streaming and the movie theater industry is doomed. Sorry, none of that is the case. It's completely detached from reality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmasterclay Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 minute ago, EmpireCity said: Also, you are predicting mass lockdowns and doom and gloom. The same thing was predicted back in August about Delta. I was one of a few that staunchly said at every chance that nothing was getting locked down again in the United States. I held firm that no studios were going to mass delay films. Nothing was locked down. Only a few select films delayed, and even a couple of those came right back on the Fall schedule. All forms of entertainment, education, sports and life carried right on. Same thing is going to be the case here. Nothing is going to lock down due to Omicron. Very little if anything is going to move release dates. No mass shut downs of entertainment or sports. I haven't been wrong about any of this and, quite frankly, someone here needs to say it out loud. There is far too much hysteria and doom and gloom in these threads. People need a dose of reality that the sky is no longer falling. Hospitalizations are at their highest since 2020 and thousands of people are dying every day. Things are not la-di-da back to normal. Yes, we might not be heading towards lockdown, but many rational people are still very cautious (not me btw!) and avoiding normal activities, which will only increase given the immune evasive variant that will likely cause 200,000+ daily cases by January. We may not be heading towards mass lockdowns, especially since we never really even had them in the first place. But we certainly could be heading towards continued economic impacts, serious impacts on regular life, and yes, changes in capacity and release dates for entertainment and maybe sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flopped Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 2 hours ago, john2000 said: On a more serious note how about people just didnt give a single shit about this ? Its not like musicals were big before covid Greatest Showman? Star Is Born? The Mamma Mias? Les Miserables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireCity Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Cmasterclay said: I don't see any reason for studios to release films in theaters anymore outside of Spider-Man types. Audiences are not coming back and we are about to have a worse COVID wave than ever. Lockdowns are incoming and with them the final death of theaters. Compare the post you made just now to this post above in this same thread you made 3 hours ago and tell me if you see what the difference is. "Audiences are not coming back, worse COVID than ever, Lockdowns!! incoming and final death of theaters." If you can't see the inherent problem in this post, not sure what to tell you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menor the Destroyer Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 I think there's a difference between a "concert" musical and a "Broadway" musical. The former seems to have more of an event factor to draw people to theaters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valonqar Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 Nothing is over until it's over especially during a very lucrative holiday season. I know covid and all that but The Greatest Showman opened with only 8.8M, got mixed reviews (57% is mixed rather than panned) and legged it up to 174M thanks to WOM. Star power didn't open. Musical wasn't known or it was an original IP hence low initial interest. And then WOM happened and the thing couldn't have been stopped. I say we wait before we bury WSS which has more going for it (famous IP, Spielberg, rave reviews, awards season legs). I know that covid is a problem because it keeps audience that may be interested in WSS at home, but judging the whole run on the preview number is an overreaction. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmasterclay Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 Just now, EmpireCity said: Compare the post you made just now to this post above in this same thread you made 3 hours ago and tell me if you see what the difference is. "Audiences are not coming back, worse COVID than ever, Lockdowns!! incoming and final death of theaters." If you can't see the inherent problem in this post, not sure what to tell you. We probably aren't getting lockdowns and that was overdramatic (though many countries are), but I will absolutely stand by January 2022 having record number of cases and near record number of hospitalization and deaths, I will absolutely stand by audiences not coming back for non branded superhero IP bullshit I've made clear 100 times I don't care about, and I stand by something I have said for five years, which is that theaters were barely going to survive the onslaught of streaming even before COVID, which has accelerated that existing trend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJohn Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 I just read here Afterlife is gonna do 200M DOM fucking what. The problem is that the market shows no health besides big budget spectacles. Everything else is a mega bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john2000 Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 ENOUGH...ALREADY we all made our views known ,there isnt a single reason to keep engaging in this nonsense.We have other threads for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXR & Friends Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said: I will absolutely stand by audiences not coming back for non branded superhero IP bullshit I've made clear 100 times I don't care about, and I stand by something I have said for five years, which is that theaters were barely going to survive the onslaught of streaming even before COVID, which has accelerated that existing trend. Bolded statements are true. IP is inherently safer (always has been), and now due to streaming's massive growth and COVID it has become more apparent how important they are to theaters. I don't blame the IP's or the audience though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menor the Destroyer Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said: You were as right on Shang-Chi and Venom as anyone else - we all know that superhero movies are doing fine. We know that now, but back then there was a ton of dooming on this forum about how Shang-Chi was gonna flop and do only 20 or 30m on OW. That said the idea that Afterlife is going to get 200m is so ridiculous, I don't even know what to say to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasNicole Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 hour ago, EmpireCity said: I'm also happy to report that people in the actual industry and studios don't hold this chicken little view that so many on here hold right now. Unless you have some horrible comorbidities or circumstances, the world is a safe place to go as it was before. Enjoy your lives again. I mean, you just need to google covid to see that things are still terrible, in some places worse than ever, and as we all know box office needs the whole world and not US only. Obviously things aren't shutting down again, so you don't need to convince me, but this whole "everything is awesome and fine" isn't a good approach either because like it or not this isn't true. The only reason for an incoming Omicron wave doesn't generate lockdowns and delays is because vaccines still work and will protect half of US population. But with millions of people circulating without their shots, they're creating a perfect environment for some variant that will surpass vaccines eventually since virus never stop evolving if they keep spreading a lot, and if that happens because of government negligence, there's not much to do. Even without lockdowns, a situation like that would be so chaotic that will have a huge negative impact in all business anyway. Right now this isn't a realistic concern and the world is not crumbling again, but in a year or two it can happen if things doesn't change, so yeah we need to discuss this now to avoid something worse than Omicron instead of pretending everything is fine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPink Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 I also say, let's wait. The presales reports for WSS were indeed a very mixed bag. But several members mentioned that it didn't look frontloaded. The WOM so far is very good too. And the Christmas season is also ahead. I don't expect the same run for WSS as for Greatest Showman, of course not, also because of the then crowded market, but to say all is lost after a previews number that is at least above that of Respect (650k if I remember it right) is really too pessimistic. By the way the presales for Matrix 4 are also encouraging. Fingers crossed that it stays like that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torontofan Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) Not to hijack debate about movies. You guys think to binary. Its not vaccinated vs unvax. You have unvax vs vax and sort of dealing with the new normal vs doomers. One group wont care and come to theater no matter what. another group will come when a movie that is interesting and a must see. and another wont leave their house till covid is over. Edited December 10, 2021 by Torontofan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmasterclay Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 We may not be as in bad of economic straits as 2020, of course, but we have certainly stagnated since the emergence of Delta over the summer - and the economic metrics (and sadly, Biden's approval) have stagnated or dropped along with it. If you had told me in early June 2021, when things looked so great and we had 10k cases a day, that we would be where we are right now in terms of cases and economy, I would be crestfallen and so would everyone else. We thought we really might have made it over the hump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmlover Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 36 minutes ago, Valonqar said: Nothing is over until it's over especially during a very lucrative holiday season. I know covid and all that but The Greatest Showman opened with only 8.8M, got mixed reviews (57% is mixed rather than panned) and legged it up to 174M thanks to WOM. Star power didn't open. Musical wasn't known or it was an original IP hence low initial interest. And then WOM happened and the thing couldn't have been stopped. I say we wait before we bury WSS which has more going for it (famous IP, Spielberg, rave reviews, awards season legs). I know that covid is a problem because it keeps audience that may be interested in WSS at home, but judging the whole run on the preview number is an overreaction. Amen to all of this. WSS preview isn't good but it's definitely not the end of it. It's selling well at a lot of theaters close by tonight (where it made little yesterday) and looking to do so throughout the weekend. As long as it hits between the $10-15M tracking number it was pegged at it'll be alright (if it had really missed tracking like, say, The Last Duel did then there would be problems). There is zero reason to already bury a movie that was always going to be much more about staying power than a big opening even in its original release date. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJG Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 44 minutes ago, CJohn said: I just read here Afterlife is gonna do 200M DOM fucking what. The problem is that the market shows no health besides big budget spectacles. Everything else is a mega bomb. i haven’t heard that movie be brought up in weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
