THOR: LOVE AND THUNDER WEEKEND THREAD | The hammer swings down with 144.2 DOM, 302 WW, the 3rd-biggest 2022 opening | Minions 46.1, TGM 15.5, Elvis 11.2, JWD 8.6

[EmpireCity]

Just now, JustLurking said:

If a business can only survive by exploiting its workers then it deserves to die, you can't tell people to just shut up and take it so you get to keep watching films at the same rate.

 

That sounds good and everything, but it simply isn't reality.  The business won't die, it will just adjust and leave behind the workers for new workers.  

 

Again, this is exactly what happened to the auto industry.  The unions pushed and pushed for decades until they got so over their skis that it was unsustainable and they simply moved the factories to find workers that were undervalued and could produce the same (and often times a much better) product for a sustainable cost.  

[EmpireCity]

Just now, M37 said:

I didn’t realize it was even possible to fit that much condescension into a single post 

 

It’s not even worth trying to refute each individual piece of nonsense, because it’s clear the warped worldview is has long since hardened, snd it’d be like arguing with a brick wall 

 

If your contempt is the asking price for getting early numbers and other bits of info, then I’ll survive without them. So long EC

 

 

I responded back after half a dozen posters insulted me personally.  

 

Why did they do this?  Because I pointed out that VFX artists aren't exactly underpaid and overworked to the degree that themselves and others try to make them out to be.  

 

I insulted not a single person on here.  I discussed a topic that was being discussed.  

 

If you don't like what I had to say, that is one thing, but I broke no rules on this forum.  Sorry.  

[Chaz]

1 minute ago, EmpireCity said:

 

That sounds good and everything, but it simply isn't reality.  The business won't die, it will just adjust and leave behind the workers for new workers.  

 

Again, this is exactly what happened to the auto industry.  The unions pushed and pushed for decades until they got so over their skis that it was unsustainable and they simply moved the factories to find workers that were undervalued and could produce the same (and often times a much better) product for a sustainable cost.  

“You can't treat the working man this way. One day we'll form a union and get the fair and equittable treatment we deserve. Then we'll go too far, and get corrupt and shiftless and the Japanese will eat us alive!” 

 

- The Simpsons, 1993

[JustLurking]

7 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

 

That sounds good and everything, but it simply isn't reality.  The business won't die, it will just adjust and leave behind the workers for new workers.  

 

Again, this is exactly what happened to the auto industry.  The unions pushed and pushed for decades until they got so over their skis that it was unsustainable and they simply moved the factories to find workers that were undervalued and could produce the same (and often times a much better) product for a sustainable cost.  

But what is your point in all this? They shouldn't complain because the industry might screw over them even harder otherwise? That the same industry that pays insane amounts to stars couldn't be sustainable if the working conditions for VFX artists were better? That it's not so bad, they get to do a lil passion job instead of unloading cargo at the docks?

 

Do you know how many of these people are out there breaking their backs, working absurd hours for little wage, and they can't even say shit because when they do they'll get blacklisted and be out of a job? If this even slightly mirrors stuff we've seen in the animation industry, some of them probably straight up collapse of exhaustation. So don't come here and tell people that they shouldn't ask for more. We should be helping them have a voice instead of telling them to keep it quieter.

 

You make such sweeping statements about people not knowing what they're talking about yet you're willing to be so judgemental of people you don't even know, you don't know their struggles, you don't know how rough they have it. If they need better working conditions, you don't get to decide they don't all on your own.

[CJohn]

This thread sure took another turn in the last few hours 

[EmpireCity]

Just now, JustLurking said:

But what is your point in all this? They shouldn't complain because the industry might screw over them even harder otherwise? That the same industry that pays insane amounts to stars couldn't be sustainable if the working conditions for VFX artists were better? That it's not so bad, they get to do a lil passion job instead of unloading cargo at the docks?

 

Do you know how many of these people are out there breaking their backs, working absurd hours for little wage, and they can't even say shit because when they do they'll get blacklisted and be out of a job? If this even slightly mirrors stuff we've seen in the animation industry, some of them probably straight up collapse of exhaustation. So don't come here and tell people that they shouldn't ask for more. We should be helping them have a voice instead of telling them to keep it quieter.

 

You make such sweeping statements about people not knowing what they're talking about yet you're willing to be so judgemental of people you don't even know, you don't know their struggles, you don't know how rough they have it. If they need better working conditions, you don't get to decide they don't all on your own.

 

I can and will make statements, they are called opinions.  You guys don't have to like them.

 

It didn't stop a whole lot of people giving their personal opinion (mostly personally insulting) about me. 

 

Anyways, the point is and was "be careful how far you push this" with the "straight up collapse of exhaustion" and similar statements that just aren't going to win anyone over in the long run.  In fact, they end up hurting way more than helping in the long run.  

 

Fight for more money, fight for better hours, benefits and all that, but don't use flat out hyperbole to get it.  

[EmpireCity]

To give an example, stuff like this actually helps and will lead to better pay / hours / benefits.... "Hey, we are contributing in a big way to these films or shws.  We need to be compensated accordingly.  Our workers want to have more sustainable hours.  We would like XYZ specific benefits and here is why". 

 

Here is what won't help in the long run.  It might get some Twitter likes and such, but it will ring hollow.... "People are straight up collapsing!  Workers are passing out right and left!  These are slave conditions!"  

 

None of that helps and the unfortunate end result is they will see the workers ultimately as unreasonable to the point they can't negotiate with them and will move production.  

 

It's happened a thousand times before and will happen again.  

[Ronin46]

24 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

 

I responded back after half a dozen posters insulted me personally.  

 

Why did they do this?  Because I pointed out that VFX artists aren't exactly underpaid and overworked to the degree that themselves and others try to make them out to be.  

 

I insulted not a single person on here.  I discussed a topic that was being discussed.  

 

If you don't like what I had to say, that is one thing, but I broke no rules on this forum.  Sorry.  

 

I appreciate the numbers and information you post. But there are limits to peoples appreciation. Just ease off and stop with these sweeping generalizations of whole groups. The world is not cut and dry. 

[Doffy]

So close to 100

[wildphantom]

8 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

 

I can and will make statements, they are called opinions.  You guys don't have to like them.

 

It didn't stop a whole lot of people giving their personal opinion (mostly personally insulting) about me. 

 

Anyways, the point is and was "be careful how far you push this" with the "straight up collapse of exhaustion" and similar statements that just aren't going to win anyone over in the long run.  In fact, they end up hurting way more than helping in the long run.  

 

Fight for more money, fight for better hours, benefits and all that, but don't use flat out hyperbole to get it.  

Agree. I mean I get that VFX wiz kids see what these movies make and think they don’t get a big enough piece considering the films would be nothing without them. But then you could say the same about anything. 
 

I’m pretty sure the majority of people that saved the lives of millions through the pandemic don’t get paid what a lot of these guys do. Perspective is difficult when you work in an industry that can generate such massive numbers for studios. 

[ThomasNicole]

Wtf is going on? This is messier than Phase 4 which is difficult these days 

 

At least we're reaching 100 pages apparently so yey 

[EmpireCity]

To also clarify, I'm not a "boomer".  I'm in Gen X.  I'm not a millennial hater or Gen Z zoomer hater, but I have seen first hand a disturbing trend develop in the last few years.  

 

It should come as a warning in some ways to the Gen Z that is entering the work force or hasn't been in it all that long.  Gen X and now some of the older millennials are the ones that are ultimately doing the hiring.  The disturbing trend, mostly developed in the last couple years and has been driven by super low unemployment and a lot of fantasy world economic conditions is driving Gen Z to have an unsustainable and highly unrealistic view of the workplace. 

 

When all of this turns, and it absolutely will as it always has in the past, Gen Z is going to suffer the most.  Gen X and older millennials are going to be a lot more hesitant to hire what they see as a workforce that is detached from reality.  

[oMeriMombatti]

Gonna take this thread, bring to my kitchen and pour all the salt on my potatoes. Tasty.

[lorddemaxus]

2 minutes ago, wildphantom said:

Agree. I mean I get that VFX wiz kids see what these movies make and think they don’t get a big enough piece considering the films would be nothing without them. But then you could say the same about anything. 
 

I’m pretty sure the majority of people that saved the lives of millions through the pandemic don’t get paid what a lot of these guys do. Perspective is difficult when you work in an industry that can generate such massive numbers for studios. 

The people who saved the lives of millions work in a completely different industry from the people who work in VFX. This is like saying someone shouldn't get depressed from going through a break-up because they never experienced something as awful as the holocaust.

[Cap]

Okay dokey. I am locking this and going to bed. We’re done here. I need to sleep. Everyone else take 5. 

[ZeeSoh]

Moderation: While topics like overworked VFX employees, economy and recession, labour market, etc are important topics worth discussing, this thread may not be the best avenue to do so.
 

Let’s keep discussions here on topic about this weekend’s box office. We do generally allow off topic discussions in these thread but seldom does it devolve into such incessant and toxic arguments. So for now just avoid the above mentioned topics. 
 

If people wish to discuss the topics I mentioned above they are free to create an appropriate thread in the appropriate section. 
 

I am unlocking the thread but play nice. 

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

[Issac Newton]

7 minutes ago, ZeeSoh said:

I am unlocking the thread but play nice

[Napoleon]

People sometimes complain about bad CGI in movies that were not meant to look realistic.

[Brainbug]

So anyway the only thing that matters is that Dominion avoided a truly harsh drop in the face of Thor and is nearing 900M WW. 1 Billion is likely out of reach, but beating Doctor Strange 2 is practically locked at this point unless Japan implodes which i dont think.