THE UNMARVELOUS WEEKEND THREAD | FEATURING MELTDOWNS, ARMCHAIR ANALYSIS, AND SEXISM

[Porthos]

So gonna violate one of my soft rules and actually make a meaningful contribution to a WE thread.

 

I think some folks might be missing the point when other folks mention that the (WGA/)SAG strike(s) was *one* of the factors with The Marvels bombing

 

It's not that folks suddenly think that there will be an uptick in sales thanks to actor promotion happening post release.  That's not the argument at all.  At least it shouldn't be.

 

It's that the Marvel Hype Machine was never (fully) engaged this year post-AM3, especially after May or so once GOTG3 was in the rearview mirror.  Never even tried to turn it on.  Wasn't possible to turn it on, IMO.

 

No presence at Comic Con.  Or at NYCC or any other major entertainment showcase.

No meaningful attempt at a presentation at a D23, Destination or otherwise.

No Disney Plus Day.

No event for MONTHS were they would try to hype up the fanbase about Marvel in general or The Marvels in particular.

 

Nothing.  Nada.  Zippo.

 

One thing that @Cap has mentioned (and I feel safe in tagging her since she's hanging around in this thread for some ungodly reason) that I fully agree with is that Marvel was the master at building hype in its events.  They knew how to cut a SuperTrailer of upcoming projects that just made one excited.

 

That Hype Machine was never engaged with the fanbase for months.

 

Now it might be *also* because the whole MCU is in flux so it'd be hard and/or irresponsible to try to do a Hype Event once they decided to start changing things post AM3-fallout.  But the timing of the strikes almost certainly was a factor as well. Calendar delays and shuffles thanks to the strikes just added to the chaos on top of not being able to fully engage with the fanbase.  Presuming the fanbase was even in the mood to be engaged with, with the strikes on folk's minds.

 

In short, the strikes were one more reason, perhaps even the metaphorical straw on the camel's back, to not having events to get the fanbase hyped up about Marvel in general.  And this is the important bit, it's not possible to retroactively Hype Up a movie's release that has already bombed.  So, no, having actors around now isn't gonna make much of a difference at all.  To use the phase I've been using for weeks now, "that ship has sailed".  Or sunk, if we're gonna be more metaphorical.

 

====

 

Now this is just one factor in the bombage.  Reception to Phase 4/5 is the huge driver, and overwhelmingly so.  So much content on D+ is perhaps a factor, but I do somewhat think it is a tiny bit overblown.  But even so it is still a factor.  And, yes, perhaps folks turning a page in general on CBMs.

 

Which is kinda one of my points.  You don't get a bomb of this size without a LOT of factors. 

 

If the strikes had never happened would that suddenly mean a 70m+ OW?  Hell if I know. Lack of strikes sets of a chain of dominoes including very likely the actual quality of the film.  More to the point, it's something that can't be meaningfully answered because separating one factor out of the half to three-quarter dozen factors and weighting out each is something I ain't smart enough to do.

 

But as a non-partisan in this whole fight (think WW2 era Switzerland)?  Tend to think it is one of the bigger factors.  Not the biggest by a long shot, but absolutely something that shouldn't be ignored.

 

NB:  Once again, this is taking about building hype in the crucial periods before attitudes about a project are formed.  And, yes, even things like World Premieres and the like.  Once the first, second, and third impressions have set in?  Far too late for it to matter.  Which is why having actors around now doesn't mean all that much in the end.

 

[filmlover]

Leave it to @Porthos to provide wisdom to all the handwringing!

 

This clearly wasn't destined to do very well regardless but I do think the strikes stunted the movie's ability to gain any kind of buzz leading up to its release more than a lot of people are willing to admit they did. It's really the first time an MCU movie seemed to arrive without any sort of real world chatter. Though the fact the numbers went as astoundingly low as they did can't help but come off as a bad omen for what's to come this entire holiday movie season IMO. And that's what I find more alarming.

[DInky]

3 hours ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

I'm not saying this is a good thing so don't yell at me but I believe that after the failure of Birds of Prey and The Marvels, you will never see another BIG BUDGET all female Super Hero team again. You'll still get female led Superhero projects of course because Wonder Woman 2017 and Captain Marvel were smash hits but the all female team thing is dead.

 

Catwoman and Elektra didn't kill off female superhero movies forever and this and Birds of Prey won't kill off female superhero team-up movies forever.

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

1 minute ago, DInky said:

 

Catwoman and Elektra didn't kill off female superhero movies forever and this and Birds of Prey won't kill off female superhero team-up movies forever.

They killed them off for like a decade though…

[John Marston]

12 minutes ago, filmlover said:

Leave it to @Porthos to provide wisdom to all the handwringing!

 

This clearly wasn't destined to do very well regardless but I do think the strikes stunted the movie's ability to gain any kind of buzz leading up to its release more than a lot of people are willing to admit they did. It's really the first time an MCU movie seemed to arrive without any sort of real world chatter. Though the fact the numbers went as astoundingly low as they did can't help but come off as a bad omen for what's to come this entire holiday movie season IMO. And that's what I find more alarming.

 

there was no buzz because there was nothing to get hyped about 

[DInky]

2 minutes ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

They killed them off for like a decade though…

 

We've also advanced as a society since then.

[Kon]

42 minutes ago, Porthos said:

I think some folks might be missing the point when other folks mention that the (WGA/)SAG strike(s) was *one* of the factors with The Marvels bombing

 

It's not that folks suddenly think that there will be an uptick in sales thanks to actor promotion happening post release.  That's not the argument at all.  At least it shouldn't be.

 

 

The "lack of cast promotion affected the box office" argument is often used to defend The Marvels.

 

I've seen this argument used to try to deny the disinterest on Captain Marvel as a character.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Kon

[BoxOfficeFangrl]

The Sydney Sweeney/Glen Powell romcom that's coming out next month was doing reshoots in Australia on Friday. The SAG strike didn't just mean actors couldn't promote movies, they couldn't do any sort of reshoots or ADR. If your movie is facing narrative challenges and reshoots are impossible, maybe the movie gets hacked to bits in an attempt to salvage what's left. So not only do you have an incoherent film, but since you're not confident in it, your promotion is minimal. It can become kind of a death spiral.

 

I know The Marvels had reshoots but maybe they could have cracked the code with another round earlier this summer. I doubt it but you never know...

[Cap]

53 minutes ago, Porthos said:

One thing that @Cap has mentioned (and I feel safe in tagging her since she's hanging around in this thread for some ungodly reason)

 

Because I got conned into being Admin, and now I am stuck in Hotel California. Which normally is fine, and fun. But this is the first weekend in six years I have genuinely felt unwelcomed. 

 

53 minutes ago, Porthos said:

That Hype Machine was never engaged with the fanbase for months.

We should also comment that for some fans the press tour IS the event. It’s just fodder for more celebrity gossip. They don’t really care about content, but they want to see their favorite actors being cute. So a HUGE part of fandom engagement never happened. No Iman, Brie, and Tenayoh doing puppy (or kitten) videos. No Hot Wings. No Lie Detector Test. No TikTok Challenge. No Instagram Cosplay Contests.  That stuff might sound stupid here, but it plays big in girl fandom spaces. 
 

I will never understand why they didn’t push this to May 4, 2024.

[Bob Train]

17 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

there was no buzz because there was nothing to get hyped about 

Cast promotion would have added 5m to the OW tops. There was just no interest here at all. It was made for an audience that doesn't care about it. People are done with derivative, "fun" CBMs with no draws.

 

Only the ones with actual draws and with characters people care about will do well anymore. The stage is set for Video game movies to take over and replace CBMs as the bread and butter of Hollywood.

[Georgy P]

6 hours ago, keysersoze123 said:

 

Cause it's hard to gloat over something successful you know.

[Cap]

24 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

We've also advanced as a society since then.

 

Have we? *wildly gestures around*

[WorkingonaName]

We should kill off superhero movies for a decade. 

[HummingLemon496]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:19 AM, Legion Again said:

Doing probably less than 2/3 of AM1 OW admissions, the prior record holder. Guess it’s only fitting for the most impressive project in Hollywood history (saga 1) to be followed by the most impressive collapse (saga 2) 🤔 🥴

And domestic total will probably be ~42% of Ant-Man 1 in terms of admissions (assuming a $100m on the dot finish)

 

And actually it is kinda funny how Shazam 2 + Flash + Blue Beetle is roughly equal to Ant-Man 1 in terms of admissions. 

 

Also, some other cool facts:

The Marvels domestic total will only be ~20% of the original Captain Marvel in terms of admissions

 

Hell, the domestic total will be a little more than half of the first movies opening weekend in terms of admissions

Edited November 13, 2023 by HummingLemon496

[Liiviig 1998]

Watched this yesterday and wanted to gather my thoughts.

 

Hmmm it wasn't a disaster ,infact chunks of carol,Monica and Kamala Khan were pretty fun and yeah carol is way better in this . Kamala continues  to be fantastic and she is the most grounded . 

 

But the plot sorrounding the three leads is complete nonsensical ,absurd and just honestly bonkers. It was TLT levels of bad. 

 

Villian was discount Ronan. Her motivations made sense but it's not really gone into and gets swallowed up by the next ridiculous moments in the plot.

 

Editing was awful. My head hurt at times. 

 

Continue to turn nick fury into a joke and quip generator. He use to be such a cool character.

 

End scene with Kamala was cringe and just dropped in for future setup .

 

Post credit scene Was nice

 

Due to the three leads chemistry . It was better than Quantumania ,eternals and TLT.

 

B-

[BadOlCatSylvester]

25 minutes ago, Cap said:

 

Because I got conned into being Admin, and now I am stuck in Hotel California. Which normally is fine, and fun. But this is the first weekend in six years I have genuinely felt unwelcomed. 

 

We should also comment that for some fans the press tour IS the event. It’s just fodder for more celebrity gossip. They don’t really care about content, but they want to see their favorite actors being cute. So a HUGE part of fandom engagement never happened. No Iman, Brie, and Tenayoh doing puppy (or kitten) videos. No Hot Wings. No Lie Detector Test. No TikTok Challenge. No Instagram Cosplay Contests.  That stuff might sound stupid here, but it plays big in girl fandom spaces. 
 

I will never understand why they didn’t push this to May 4, 2024.

Because, quite simply, they had no faith in this movie at all. I've been saying that for a while. If they really cared, then you're right, they would've pushed it to next May in order to wait out the strikes and then do all the reshoots they needed to salvage the movie. That they decided to stick to this past weekend tells me they didn't think that expense would be worth it. For comparison, they didn't hesitate to push back Captain America 4 and order the necessary reshoots less than a week after the strikes ended. That says a lot.

[Movie nerd]

Oh boy, "Brie doing The View and eating Hot Ones would add 30 milions to the Box Office" truthers are speaking up here now as well. 

There's a reason many poeple in January and before were predicting this move will be a huge bomb, long before strikes, becouse the hype and interest from even core Marvel fandom was always very very weak for this flick. 

Five Nights at Freddy"s opening two weeks earlier to 80 mln$ completely kills any merit to this line of excuses for Marvels. But folks will try of course. 

[Liiviig 1998]

This is literally making  less than flash. Any " didn't promote this" excuse is render it kind of mute.

 

GA didn't care for the movie and reviews didn't prove them otherwise. 

 

FNAF is going to beat WW, Domestic,OS and OW . No promotion.

 

Marvels is an MCU title that alone should be enough to attract decent enough audience even without promotion . 

[grim22]

2 hours ago, BadOlCatSylvester said:

Because, quite simply, they had no faith in this movie at all. I've been saying that for a while. If they really cared, then you're right, they would've pushed it to next May in order to wait out the strikes and then do all the reshoots they needed to salvage the movie. That they decided to stick to this past weekend tells me they didn't think that expense would be worth it. For comparison, they didn't hesitate to push back Captain America 4 and order the necessary reshoots less than a week after the strikes ended. That says a lot.

Agreed. A movie doesn't drop 80% OS and 70% domestic because the cast couldn't do Hot Wings interview. 

 

Is it a contributing factor? Sure. Is it a determining factor? No.

 

It's a Marvel movie, it should by default be a big deal. The brand isn't in a position to make things an event by default anymore.

[Noctis]

Interviews will have BARELY helped this movie at best. There was an enormous decrease in interest due to the film not looking interesting, and more importantly, the general audience's dwindling faith in the MCU combined with the vast amount of TV shows inundating everything.