Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[A Marvel Fanboy]

Wow, there were quite a lot comments to that article. Seems plenty nerds go that site.

 

And a geek can earn money for being geek and writing geeky ...

[Darth Homer]

The problem with Avatar isn't that it has a simple story, it's that Cameron's writing has gotten lazy in his (middle) age. He used to write memorable dialogue in his sleep, but aside from Stephen Lang's "jujubees" and "that's a fact" speeches, I can't remember any dialogue from the film even though I've watched it three times. The lack of humour is shocking. None of the characters have any personality or depth, they're just archetypes. I remember watching Michelle Rodriguez's character die and thinking, "Are we actually supposed to care about this person?" Any one of the random grunts in Aliens had more personality than her.

Having said all that, Cameron is still a great director and he was able to save the first film from his own writing. I'll still watch the sequel, but hopefully he'll put as much effort into the script this time as he does the other elements of the film.

[Elessar]

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean he didn't put efforts into the script.

[Elessar]

A small tidbit in Peter Jackson's blog:

 

 

Our shoot day starts at 8.30am, and is supposed to finish at 7.30pm. I suspect we'll be working late. Whenever we work a long day, I joke with the crew that I'm just softening them up for when Jim Cameron shows up in Wellington to shoot Avatar 2 and 3. Well ... It's not really a joke.

 

Things seem to be finally moving along.

[Leyla]

hopefully it won't be released in dec 2015 & cut my bb Bond's legs

Edited July 26, 2013 by Leyla

[Shaldun]

hopefully it won't be released in dec 2015 & cut my bb Bond's legs

Bond is released in early November (and maybe end of October OS because Bond arrives often later in the US). Avatar will likely have a mid-December date. So, even in 2015, Bond will have the time try to do his money.

Dory and MJ2 have more chances to cut legs of Bond (not exactly the same audience but for some parts yes).

 

The shooting will start this year ? Or early 2014 ? For a 2015 release, it's seem needed (long post-prod for this). Are Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana (and others) free ? I think Saldana is on GOTG shooting who start some weeks ago, when it will be finished ? 

[Neo]

Bond is released in early November (and maybe end of October OS because Bond arrives often later in the US). Avatar will likely have a mid-December date. So, even in 2015, Bond will have the time try to do his money.

Dory and MJ2 have more chances to cut legs of Bond (not exactly the same audience but for some parts yes).

 

The shooting will start this year ? Or early 2014 ? For a 2015 release, it's seem needed (long post-prod for this). Are Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana (and others) free ? I think Saldana is on GOTG shooting who start some weeks ago, when it will be finished ? 

Guardians should be by December at the latest.

[4815162342]

It is indeed related to economy of storytelling, but his AVATAR/Cameron comment is more of an aside... comparing "simple" storytelling that's effective vs. convoluted storytelling that's all the rage but not very good dramatically.

 

http://badassdigest.com/2013/06/12/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-age-of-the-convoluted-blockbuster/

 

He calls STID's plot convoluted...except it isn't in any way shape or form.

 

His ranting about mechanical plot-driven movies makes some sense...until you realize that many great stories are about characters out of their depth in a plot where other people are pulling the strings and making the moves and it's the job of the characters to navigate their way out of that to a form of victory and agency. A story where *gasp* everything isn't within the control of the heroes? How horrid! Sometimes yes, an overly plotted movie can feel artificial. But there's nothing inherently wrong with a movie about a character having to react to people with the power changing the game on him, because when done right, which he seems to think is not often (and I disagree with that) we as the audience empathize with the character as the "wrench in the works," the guy who by sheer will and persistence will upend the plans of those people who think they're above the field (boils down to a David v. Goliath thing, which is one of the oldest and simplest stories of all time, it's just dressed up to be about intellectual/deviousness/etc on the part of the antagonist rather than brute force).

 

Also, he complains that the allegedly convoluted STID plot robs it of drama and character feeling, which is kinda funny since the consensus about the film is that the drama, emotion, and feeling works in spite of flaws in the script and narrative structure.

 

So yeah, FCH doesn't hold much water for me these days.

So yeah

[Cochofles]

The problem with Avatar isn't that it has a simple story, it's that Cameron's writing has gotten lazy in his (middle) age. He used to write memorable dialogue in his sleep, but aside from Stephen Lang's "jujubees" and "that's a fact" speeches, I can't remember any dialogue from the film even though I've watched it three times. The lack of humour is shocking. None of the characters have any personality or depth, they're just archetypes. I remember watching Michelle Rodriguez's character die and thinking, "Are we actually supposed to care about this person?" Any one of the random grunts in Aliens had more personality than her.Having said all that, Cameron is still a great director and he was able to save the first film from his own writing. I'll still watch the sequel, but hopefully he'll put as much effort into the script this time as he does the other elements of the film.

In other words «I did not like the dialogue or the characters, therefore, that means without any doubt, that his writing is bad, and the characters had no depth and he is lazy.”

[baumer]

The problem with Avatar isn't that it has a simple story, it's that Cameron's writing has gotten lazy in his (middle) age. He used to write memorable dialogue in his sleep, but aside from Stephen Lang's "jujubees" and "that's a fact" speeches, I can't remember any dialogue from the film even though I've watched it three times. The lack of humour is shocking. None of the characters have any personality or depth, they're just archetypes. I remember watching Michelle Rodriguez's character die and thinking, "Are we actually supposed to care about this person?" Any one of the random grunts in Aliens had more personality than her.

Having said all that, Cameron is still a great director and he was able to save the first film from his own writing. I'll still watch the sequel, but hopefully he'll put as much effort into the script this time as he does the other elements of the film.

 

How many films have been written as well as Aliens?  Seriously?  Not many if any.  Just because Avatar doesn't have snappy one liners like Aliens doesn't mean it isn't well written.

[dashrendar44]

Yeah, the whole «weak story» thing is an argument that everyone just parrots because it was the rallying cry of the people that hated the film from the get-go, including film critics. Yes, it was a derivative story/plot, there's no question, but for a film —no matter how visually arresting— to connect with audiences in such a way, the story has to be compelling and audiences have to care about the characters. Sure, people will say that Avatar (and Titanic) had «weak stories», but I am not buying that. Cameron is a master storyteller, and that's why he takes simple, done-to-death plots, and TELLS THEM (go ahead, say “more like ‘regurgitates them’” if it makes you feel better) in such a way that people can't help but fall in love with those plots all over again. Funny how he makes these 3-hour epics in which every single minutes counts to further the plot, and nothing feels like padding (Um, hello, Mr. Peter Jackson). Say that he can't write and that he is not original, but very few directors working today can tell a story as compellingly as JC. Say that the characters were cardboar until you are blue in the face, but audiences HAD to care about Rose, Jack, Jake and Neityri to pay so much money to see them again and again.

 

This post wins the thread.

 

PREACH IT!

[filmscholar]

I think "Avatar 2" will drop domestically but be even bigger Worldwide. 

[Moviedweeb]

I think "Avatar 2" will drop domestically but be even bigger Worldwide. 

 

If it crosses $2 billion WW again it would be incredible. 

[kayumanggi]

If it crosses $2 billion WW again it would be incredible. 

 

I think it's very possible.

[Elessar]

Avatar was huge everywhere, the sequel will drop worldwide.

[fishstick]

The problem with Avatar isn't that it has a simple story, it's that Cameron's writing has gotten lazy in his (middle) age. He used to write memorable dialogue in his sleep, but aside from Stephen Lang's "jujubees" and "that's a fact" speeches, I can't remember any dialogue from the film even though I've watched it three times.

 

 

And I found it refreshing that dialog wasn't written around one-two supposedly quotable lines that supposedly sound good in a trailer (hello "We cancell the apocalypse!"). Dialog was functional instead of artifically made to be quotable. Too many movies nowdays write dialog that screams "Quote me!" so it doesn't even sound like a dialog. Biggest offenders of late, IMO, are MoS and TDKR with their overly-ponderous phrases poorly mascaraded as dialog. Who the fuck talks like that? Most labored ealking shit ever.

[dashrendar44]

And I found it refreshing that dialog wasn't written around one-two supposedly quotable lines that supposedly sound good in a trailer (hello "We cancell the apocalypse!"). Dialog was functional instead of artifically made to be quotable. Too many movies nowdays write dialog that screams "Quote me!" so it doesn't even sound like a dialog. Biggest offenders of late, IMO, are MoS and TDKR with their overly-ponderous phrases poorly mascaraded as dialog. Who the fuck talks like that? Most labored ealking shit ever.

 

"You're not in Kansas anymore!"

 

"Shut your pie hole!"

"Or what, Ranger Rick? You gonna shoot me?"

 

"That is one big damn tree!"

 

"You throw a stick in the air around here it falls on some sacred fern, for Christ's sake!"

 

"They're just pissing on us without even giving us the courtesy of calling it rain." (Sigourney )

 

"Jake! Listen to me! You're not used to your avatar body. This is dangerous!

"This is great!"

 

"Let's dance!"

 

"This is our land!"

 

Not quotable? Give me a break...

[fishstick]

 

 

"You throw a stick in the air around here it falls on some sacred fern, for Christ's sake!"

 

 

I love this line so much. It really sums up the idiocy of political correctness and why military campaigns turn into hot mess when politicians and damn Human Rights Watchers start to butt in.

Edited July 27, 2013 by fishnets

[filmscholar]

If it crosses $2 billion WW again it would be incredible. 

 

I think it can.  6 years of inflation.  3D is even bigger now.  But for some reason I don't see it breaking 500 Million Domestic though. I just see a big drop domestically but who knows.  Once those 1st visuals come out and people are back in Pandora again it could be another worldwide phenomenon.   The Avatar Trilogy has the potential to make over 6 Billion when it's all said and done. Shoot it's already half way there. 

[Dementeleus]

So when A2 grosses "only" 450m domestically, is someone gonna start a WWW thread?