***SPOILERS*** The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread ***SPOILERS ALLOWED*** You have been warned! DO NOT ENTER if you don't want to be spoiled

[AndyLL]

3 hours ago, pepper83 said:

The movie was such a colossal disappointment :/

 

So you're only going to see it 2-3 times?

[James]

Finally saw it. I liked it for the most part. In fact, it would've been a great movie if not for one thing. But first things first.

I loved the new characters and the old ones. The acting was solid, the dialogue was okay (few cliche lines but no big deal, much better than the other movies), the effects were good and the overall direction was great. The soundtrack was better in the PT.

My huge huge issue was Ren and the general jedi/sith/lightsaber duels and powers. I havent read anything in this thread and I'd like to know if anyone had the same issue.

I know they wanted to distance themselves from the prequels, but the battles were completely unspectacular and besides that Ren was pathetic. How did Rey, a completely untrained person in the ways of the force defeats a Sith lord. And before her, Finn, freakin Finn, actually hurts Ren in a lightsaber duel. After we see Anakin in the PT and everything he can do Ren seems like a joke. Also, it completely contradicts the SW lore. The story of Han and Leia's son turnin evil is taken from the Legacy of the Force series mostly, but they failed to make Ren a credible threat in any way. The overpowered Rey and severly weakened Ren.

Also, Ren feels when Han arrives on the planet, but fails to do the same thing when he is metres away...

And the Snoke part... oh man...

Overall it was a good movie, but similar to Marvel, the bad guys were disappointing to say the least.

If I was to compare it to the other movies, it would be no. 2, behind ROTS for me.

7/10

Trimis de pe al meu SM-J100H folosind Tapatalk

[AndyLL]

2 minutes ago, James said:

 

My huge huge issue was Ren and the general jedi/sith/lightsaber duels and powers. I havent read anything in this thread and I'd like to know if anyone had the same issue.

I know they wanted to distance themselves from the prequels, but the battles were completely unspectacular and besides that Ren was pathetic. How did Rey, a completely untrained person in the ways of the force defeats a Sith lord. And before her, Finn, freakin Finn, actually hurts Ren in a lightsaber duel. After we see Anakin in the PT and everything he can do Ren seems like a joke. Also, it completely contradicts the SW lore. The story of Han and Leia's son turnin evil is taken from the Legacy of the Force series mostly, but they failed to make Ren a credible threat in any way. The overpowered Rey and severly weakened Ren.

 

 

How did Luke, who was never off planet, pilot an x-wing and hit a 1 meter target using the force?

 

How did Anikin, at 5 years old, win a pod race?

 

1) Ren was not a sith load... he is not fully trained and was emotionally unstable.  He was also wounded. ( which they made sure to let us know with that weird pounding of his side )

2) Finn got his ass kicked when using the lightsaber

3) They established that Rey could fight before she had the lightsaber... and she was getting her ass kicked until she used the Force... much like Luke against the deathstar

[James]

2 minutes ago, James said:

 

My huge huge issue was Ren and the general jedi/sith/lightsaber duels and powers. I havent read anything in this thread and I'd like to know if anyone had the same issue.

I know they wanted to distance themselves from the prequels, but the battles were completely unspectacular and besides that Ren was pathetic. How did Rey, a completely untrained person in the ways of the force defeats a Sith lord. And before her, Finn, freakin Finn, actually hurts Ren in a lightsaber duel. After we see Anakin in the PT and everything he can do Ren seems like a joke. Also, it completely contradicts the SW lore. The story of Han and Leia's son turnin evil is taken from the Legacy of the Force series mostly, but they failed to make Ren a credible threat in any way. The overpowered Rey and severly weakened Ren.

 

 

How did Luke, who was never off planet, pilot an x-wing and hit a 1 meter target using the force?

 

How did Anikin, at 5 years old, win a pod race?

 

1) Ren was not a sith load... he is not fully trained and was emotionally unstable.  He was also wounded. ( which they made sure to let us know with that weird pounding of his side )

2) Finn got his ass kicked when using the lightsaber

3) They established that Rey could fight before she had the lightsaber... and she was getting her ass kicked until she used the Force... much like Luke against the deathstar

Not comparable at all. Luke had Obi Wan. And we dont talk here about some special abilities. Yes, some are instinctual. But this is battle training. The movies and books clearly established that.

And the fact that Ren was hurt doesnt excuse him lacking skills like that. He was the one that decimated the new Jedi Luke was training and nade him go into exile. He's supposed to be stronger than a newbie.

[Tubes]

Luke is repeatedly mentioned as being an excellent bush pilot and being able to hit small targets using his T-16's laser cannon.

 

Anakin winning the pod race (something he's never done) is convenient, but he's raced in them before.

 

I didn't mind Rey being able to pilot the Falcon or winning the respect of Han (both possible Sue-ish traits).  I just found it a bit off that she was able to pull out Force powers and beat a Sith (who, as a Dark Side practicioner, thrives on emotion and anger to drive his power) without having some kind of tutelage first.

 

This isn't the first time the franchise had criticism for overpowered author avatars.  You could pick apart Luke as a self insert character.  Had the prequels came first, we would have.

[hasanahmad]

1 minute ago, Tubes said:

Luke is repeatedly mentioned as being an excellent bush pilot and being able to hit small targets using his T-16's laser cannon.

 

Anakin winning the pod race (something he's never done) is convenient, but he's raced in them before.

 

I didn't mind Rey being able to pilot the Falcon or winning the respect of Han (both possible Sue-ish traits).  I just found it a bit off that she was able to pull out Force powers and beat a Sith (who, as a Dark Side practicioner, thrives on emotion and anger to drive his power) without having some kind of tutelage first.

 

This isn't the first time the franchise had criticism for overpowered author avatars.  You could pick apart Luke as a self insert character.  Had the prequels came first, we would have.

Luke was able evade Vader's shots at him and make a one in a million shot using the force destroying an entire death star. I would think that is a bigger achievement than fighting an immature fighter who has the force and has not even completed his training. For crying out loud he got hit by a saber when fighting FINN, that is how untrained he is.

[moviesRus]

Yeah, Luke did what no one else in an experienced X-Wing squad could do. All Rey did was barely survive a duel with a nutty guy who just killed his dad and is bleeding profusely. 

Edited December 21, 2015 by moviesRus

[Merkel]

Kylo was severely injured. He had just finished dueling someone else. He was emotionally troubled. Plus, Rey was already a very good hand to hand fighter. And I also think she's the most powerful force user we've seen thus far in the saga. She's connected to the force awakening somehow. The fact that she's powerful beyond her training is kinda the whole point, I think

[Tubes]

3 minutes ago, hasanahmad said:

Luke was able evade Vader's shots at him and make a one in a million shot using the force destroying an entire death star. I would think that is a bigger achievement than fighting an immature fighter who has the force and has not even completed his training. For crying out loud he got hit by a saber when fighting FINN, that is how untrained he is.

 

I didn't like that either.  Instead of making Finn and Rey look better, it made Ren look worse and hurt his menace for future films.

 

As for the Death Star, Vader clipped several fighters in addition to the ones he destroyed, including Luke, indicating that his TIE targeting might not be the best.  Luke had an introductory course in the Force on the Falcon and stretched his reach out for the first time under Obi Wan's eyes, something Rey didn't have.  Plus, before Luke could even fire, he was saved by Han blowing away Vader's wingman and breaking up his formation.

[Water Bottle]

16 minutes ago, Tubes said:

Luke is repeatedly mentioned as being an excellent bush pilot and being able to hit small targets using his T-16's laser cannon.

 

Anakin winning the pod race (something he's never done) is convenient, but he's raced in them before.

 

I didn't mind Rey being able to pilot the Falcon or winning the respect of Han (both possible Sue-ish traits).  I just found it a bit off that she was able to pull out Force powers and beat a Sith (who, as a Dark Side practicioner, thrives on emotion and anger to drive his power) without having some kind of tutelage first.

 

This isn't the first time the franchise had criticism for overpowered author avatars.  You could pick apart Luke as a self insert character.  Had the prequels came first, we would have.

 

"It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters."

[RobinHood26]

My problem isn't really her winning, but her force moment is lame to me. The shot is held for WAY to long. They both look like they are just holding lightsabers by there face. It doesn't not seem at all like they are straining each other trying to push the other back. They both are "waiting". Plus he goes all teach you the force and then she's like "oh yeah. the force, I'll try, thanks for the advance Kylo!"

Edited December 21, 2015 by Jay Salahi

[misafeco]

I'm disappointed. Sorry. 

ANH=ESB=RoTJ>TPM=RoTS>AotC>TFA

[AndyLL]

16 minutes ago, Jay Salahi said:

My problem isn't really her winning, but her force moment is lame to me. The shot is held for WAY to long. They both look like they are just holding lightsabers by there face. It doesn't not seem at all like they are straining etcher trying to push the other back. They both are "waiting". Plus he goes all teach you the force and then she's like "oh yeah. the force, I'll try, thanks for the advance Kylo!"

 

In ANH they had Ben telling Luke to use the force... had to have a way to get the point across here.

[DeeCee]

19 minutes ago, Jay Salahi said:

My problem isn't really her winning, but her force moment is lame to me. The shot is held for WAY to long. They both look like they are just holding lightsabers by there face. It doesn't not seem at all like they are straining etcher trying to push the other back. They both are "waiting". Plus he goes all teach you the force and then she's like "oh yeah. the force, I'll try, thanks for the advance Kylo!"

That's the point. He pauses because he thinks he can turn her.

[RobinHood26]

3 minutes ago, Darth AndyLL said:

 

In ANH they had Ben telling Luke to use the force... had to have a way to get the point across here.

 

Yes and that works fine. Its not like Luke just took his hand off the controls and closed his eyes for 8 seconds while he's fucking flying down a trench with Tie Fighters shooting lasers at him. 

[RobinHood26]

7 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

That's the point. He pauses because he thinks he can turn her.

 

I know, but thats like the most BASIC thing ever. " You know you're really good at this video game but not as good as me,  if you pressed down the A button 3 times fast you could probably beat me." While in the middle of a game

 

But this isn't a friend helping you do better at video games, its life or death. Plus she is obviously going all zen and channeling her energy to fight him not join him. Like he could say that and keep fighting. The other baddies did in the OT

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by Jay Salahi

[Plain Old Tele]

28 minutes ago, Jay Salahi said:

My problem isn't really her winning, but her force moment is lame to me. The shot is held for WAY to long.

 

I take it you don't like Sergio Leone.

[Water Bottle]

I know people are like "it makes sense that Rey won because she's good at staff combat and Rylo was injured!" and fair I guess except for two things:

1) Fighting with a staff is actually very different than fighting with a sword especially a sword made out of lazer. In fact, in the canon the people who use lightsabers are generally only Jedi because the Force gives them the reflexes they need to properly use a lightsaber (Grevious is an exception to due his machine parts giving him quick reflexes). This is why I think Finn is also force sensitive.

2) It undermines the value of Jedi training. Look, I get why she was good. I get she was fighting an injured dark jedi. I get all of that. But the Jedi are cool because they train. It's supposed to be difficult to properly wield a lightsaber like a proper Jedi. I think she just made being a jedi seem too easy especially since she's had little lightsaber training and like no formal force training. I mean it isn't until she "uses the force" that she is able to beat Kylo so clearly his injuries weren't THAT bad that she was suddenly amazing.

3) It undermines Kylo Ren as a villain if he's beaten in his first lightsaber match by a newbie like Rey. Sure, the movie already established him as a great villain before then...and sure he was injured and all....and I still think he's a great antagonist....but Rey beating him undermined him.

 

I love the movie and all but I think the real reason people are complaining about this, and I think it's something nobody has actually addressed, is that to the people who are complaining that Rey easily beat Ren aren't actually complaining about this. What they are actually complaining is they aren't convinced Rey earned that victory.

 

Consider ANH: Darth Vader kills Obi-Wan Kenobi. He was already a cool villain but the fact that he's able to kill Obi Wan really establishes his threat level as a villain. In ESB, Vader beats Luke Skywalker. Luke does better than Vader expected but come on, Vader easily beat him. It isn't until ROTJ that Luke (who got promoted to like Jedi Knight between the movies) was able to beat Vader and even then it wasn't easy.

 

Consider: TPM: Darth Maul kills Quin-Jon establishing him as a threatening Sith. Sure Obi-Wan is able to kill Darth Maul but Darth Maul but that's slightly different because Obi-Wan was ready to take on the Jedi Knight trials: he's been trained. In AOTC, Count Dooku is able to hold his own against Yoda and beats Obi-Wan and Anakin establishing him as a bad-ass. In ROTS, when Anakin kills Count Dooku (after obviously getting LOTS of experience in the Clone Wars) it works (plus it signals his turn to the dark side) but it's still not easy for him. The fact that Obi-Wan gets knocked out of the fight is a sign of that. Palpatine is able to take on Mace Windu and 3 other Jedi Masters. He gets "injured" I guess (at least deformed) but even then he forces Yoda to retreat from their lightsaber match. And Obi-Wan and Anakin are pretty even in that final battle, Anakin only losing because he loses the high ground.

 

In this movie, we get one lightsaber match at the end. Finn is able to weaken Kylo Ren sure...but still. It doesn't feel completely earned. The OT and even the PT made sure that the heroes EARNED their victories so when they finally beat the villains, you feel like it's a huge accomplishment.

[RobinHood26]

10 minutes ago, Obi-Wan Telemachos said:

 

I take it you don't like Sergio Leone.

 

I do! 

 

Honestly all Kylo had to do was have a grunt face and not a waiting face and it wouldn't have bothered me an once. but the dude was just standing there. 

Edited December 21, 2015 by Jay Salahi

[Jayhawk the Hutt]

I'm pretty sure Kylo is coming back with a vengeance in 8. Uninjured, and after he completes his training.