Racism and the Oscars thread

[baumer]

**** Before we get started, I realize that this thread is a dangerous one.  Racism is a touchy subject and it can invoke a lot of incendiary opinions.  By participating in this thread, you are all on a short leash.  And what I mean by that is it's fine to express an opinion, but it is not fine to attack others for what they say.

 

It's okay to have an opinion that might not be socially acceptable.  But it's all in the way you say something.  For example, it's fine to say that in your opinion, there were no films or performances by black people this year that were worthy of recognition.  That's an opinion and even if people disagree with it, it's not racist.  It's not okay to say that the person who has this opinion is a fucking racist and has a bad upbringing and should be put in prison and so on.  If this thread is going to exist, just be civil with one another.

[CoolioD1]

waiting for this thread to kick off like

 

 

[baumer]

Just to start it off, here's my two cents.

 

I agree that the academy is very much out of touch with a lot of socially relevant issues therefore making them out of touch with socially relevant films.  They have ignored a lot of great performances and films in the past.  This is true.

 

Btu count me as one of the few who don't think that anything was really worthy of any recognition last year and even though I think they missed an opportunity with Creed and those involved, I think it has more to do with it being a sequel than it does because Jordan and Coogler are black.  

 

Does any and every film that has any kind of strong black theme to it automatically mean that it should be nominated for Oscars?  I personally think Spike Lee is a decent film maker but his perceived snubs from the academy are laughable.  I can't think of one film besides Malcolm X that should have won anything.  And that includes Do The Right Thing.  I certainly don't think Selma was anything special and Will Smith should never have been considered a shoe in to get a best actor nomination.  There are lot of snubs every year.  A lot of those snubs are to white people, latins, asians and so on.  But imo, just because you make a good film with predominantly black actors, doesn't mean you should be a shoe in for a nomination.  

 

I think this years griping is a little over board, especially from Smith's wife.  IMO, she should just kind of zip it.  She's too involved on a personal level and her complaining sounds more like sour grapes than it does a call for race equality.  Did Jim Carrey not get snubbed for some excellent performances?  Haven't a lot of actors been snubbed?  Jacob Tremblay, the kid who plays Jack in Room, deserved a nomination for best actor more than Smith did.  

 

While I think the academy is out of touch for a litany of reasons, I don't know if it is because they are racist.  

[filmlover]

Will Smith's chances entirely lived and died upon his film's critical and financial reception (because no one expected the film to be good enough to be a major awards player). When it only got decent reviews and didn't make much of a dent at the box office, he was out of the running.

[WrathOfHan]

This whole thing is stupid. The whole point of awards is to honor the best, whether you're Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, etc. The Academy had to pick 5 nominees in most of the categories. For Best Picture, the movies simply didn't have enough #1 votes. Supporting Actor was a stacked category this year and they didn't like Beasts of No Nation. Actor was pretty weak, but WB didn't run much of a campaign on Creed and Concussion had mixed reviews. Straight Outta Compton didn't have the passion in other categories.

[Spidey Freak]

Harvey Weinstein should produce some minority led movies. Problem solved.

[WrathOfHan]

3 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

Harvey Weinstein should produce some minority led movies. Problem solved.

He did and this was the first time in 7 or 8 years where a Weinstein movie wasn't nominated for BP.

[Claire of Themyscira]

Before the mess begins...

 

But, I'm gonna give my two cents, and that's it, I hope.

 

My main issue is that when dumb ass people say, "Black people just need to give better performances. Nothing was worthy, etc."

 

I call bullshit, but my main gripe is that simply minorities or people of color simply don't get the same luxury white people in the amount and variety of roles that are offered. I feel that is why we see a lot of these years where minorities don't get nominated, etc.

 

Okay, I'm out.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Rey

[The Panda]

The problem isn't that people should be nominated for being a minority.  Again, there's two main problems (one is the root and one is a result of the root)

 

1.In the short term, the problem with this years Oscar nomination was that there were plenty of worthy people of color who did excellent work, and many of them even were in talks to get a nom (Such as Elba, and even Del Torro at some points), and not one of them could.  Not even a minority  led film (or even a film with a decent sized minority presence) got a BP nom.  And it's also practically the second year in a row that happened (excluding Selma from last year, last year wasn't as bad.  In practicality, there should be at least one minority actor who should be able to score a nomination, and for other awards (like tech and writing) there should in practicality be a decent amount of woman and minority nominees.  But there aren't.  This IS a problem, whether intentional or not.  It's an institutional problem, maybe not a deliberate one, but still a problem.

 

2.The institutional problem that the above is a result of is the fact there aren't many minorities or even females in the industry.  Whether it's a recruitment issue or maybe even a privilideve issue.  This leads to less minority and woman led films, and also less minorities and woman working in the writing, directing, and tech departments.

 

Another part of the institutional problem is that the vast majority of academy members are old, male and white.  It's a fact.  If there isn't diversity in the voting block, there won't be diversity in the nominations and winners (whether worthy or not).  

 

This leads to another problem in that I circles back to the first.  If the vast majority of nominees are old, white and male, then the majority of high-caliber films (or Oscar Bait/Awards films) are going to pander to that demographic by making movies that pander to the old white male academy demographic.  Look at the nominations over the years and realize that minus one or two outliers per year, the majority of nominees are films that pander to that demographic.  Even the "blockbusters" that get nominated like Gravity and the Martian are blockbusters that played better to the old white man crowd than a younger crowd that other box office hits did.

 

Im not saying all of the non-diversity movies were bad, or there can't be old white male movies getting nominated, I'm just pointing out that the majority of nominees and winners are from movies that pander to that demographic.

 

It's systematic in the academy voting block, the producers who choose what kind of movies to greenlight, and industry itself that does a poor job of attracting jobs for non-white males.

[misafeco]

10% of all acting nominees in the 21th century were black.

15% of all acting winners in the 21th century were black.

12.6% of the US population are black.

 

Where is the problem?

[Ezen Baklattan]

The academy likes recognizing POC in contexts where it's like "OMG, white people are helping overcome racism, look how far we came" such as The Help, Driving Miss Daisy, 12 Years A Slave (Though its still a great movie), but a lot of really phenomenal performances by POC don't often end up in mainstream (and Oscar friendly movies). Who even saw Chi-Raq and Tangerine outside of these circles?

 

More over, it seems like the conversation automatically shifts to African Americans. Latin@s, Asian Americans, Native Americans, and more probably get even a smaller piece of the pie.

[Water Bottle]

So how great is that a Mexican might win Best Director and his movie has a good chance of being Best Picture?

Oh, sorry, I forget. Only the acting awards matter.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Goffe]

3 hours ago, misafeco said:

10% of all acting nominees in the 21th century were black.

15% of all acting winners in the 21th century were black.

12.6% of the US population are black.

 

Where is the problem?

If those stats are true, can anyone refute his argument?

[baumer]

So if Michael B. Jordan had been nominated this year, is this even an issue?  What other nominees that are black were really snubbed?

[The Panda]

11 minutes ago, Baumer said:

So if Michael B. Jordan had been nominated this year, is this even an issue?  What other nominees that are black were really snubbed?

 

Im talking about people of color in general. And on that regard

 

Elba, Attah, Jordan, Del Torro, Isaac, Jackson and Thompson all were better than some of the the actors nominated in their cats.

[baumer]

But that's all a matter of opinion.  I could name ten other white actors who should have been nominated as well, at least imo.

[Spidey Freak]

11 hours ago, WrathOfHan said:

He did and this was the first time in 7 or 8 years where a Weinstein movie wasn't nominated for BP.

 

Hmm, his rivals must have increased their bribes upgraded their For Your Consideration material. 

[BK007]

The problem is the industry, not the Oscars.

 

People are barking up the wrong tree. 

 

And, sure everyone can have their opinion, but does Jada Pinkett Smith even act? 

 

This seems to be like the time Rob Schneider publicly stated he would never work with Mel Gibson because of the Jewish tirade the latter went on. The media spun in into "Schneider becomes the first actor to swear off working with Gibson" as if more would follow, and as if the two had any relation. Rob Schneider is a nobody hack, and whilst Gibson may be a racist, they would never have worked together anyway. It's a non-story that the desperate American media spin out of control. 

 

Will Smith joining in is just bad taste. You were not nominated, which implies you think you should have been, but no one, including critics circles pointed that out. Deal with it. 

 

It seems some two-bit nobodies are trying to stir up shit, and though there is nothing to say that one person can't create change, at least have some pedigree and at least direct it in the right places. Whoring out your children and trying to make them happen is not pedigree, it is grating. 

 

Furthermore, the Oscars have never been the place to make change. You need to start diversification in the roles. I wasn't aware the Oscars produced movies. 

 

Lastly, most of the country is white anyway, so even if there was more accurate representation, say, to the demographics of the country, obviously more white people would get in anyway. What we want is merit-based awards, and you can argue whether or not the Oscars are merit-based, but having token minority nominations or mandated approval is not the way to go. 

 

 

[baumer]

I agree with BK007.

 

The Oscars are under no obligation to have a quota.  They nominate who they choose and I honestly don't think they all sit around and decide to not nominate someone based on the colour of their skin.

 

Benicio Del Toro has already won so no nominating him this year has nothing to do with racism, perhaps they just thought there better performances.

 

People mention Idris Elba.  I've never heard of Beasts of No Nation.  It's made 90 GRAND....yes, 90 thousand dollars at the  domestic box office.  So maybe the academy didn't see that film, or enough them at least.  When Robert Redford didn't get nominated last year nor did his film All is Lost, he came out publicly and said not enough of the Academy saw it so he knew it would be in tough in the major awards.  So again, jumping the gun here to say that Elba was left off because of racism.  You film has to be seen in order to be considered.

 

Straight Outta Compton was good but not oscar worthy, imo of course.  Yes, Jackson was good as was every other member of the cast, as  was the cast of Creed. But there were a dozen other performances that were ignored that could have been up there too, and they were white.  

 

I'm not a big fan of the Oscars, I think they are corrupt and I think guys like the Weinsteins have been buying Oscars for years.  But I don't think snubs have anything to do with the old members being racist.  

[Avatree]

I think it's concerning that the issue of racism in the film industry is being pinpointed on the Oscars. As misafeco pointed out, there have been plenty of black nominees/winners. As for having all-white acting nominees for the past two years... well the Academy cannot nominate black actors if there are only a few black-led movies. It's not the Academy's fault that black people don't have the same chances. Although I would argue black is not the most underrepresented minority by a long shot. Has there ever been an openly gay winner?

 

However I am glad that people are waking up to the fact that awards are a load of rubbish and don't actually mean anything.