The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power | Amazon | September 2, 2022

[CoolioD1]

i give it a 5 in that i tapped out after episode 5.

[SnokesLegs]

What in the blue fuck was that credits song? ‘Into the West’, that was not.

Edited October 15, 2022 by SnokesLegs

[MikeQ]

In complete isolation from the rest of the season and from Middle-Earth lore, this episode was the most fun I've had all season. If I wasn't a Lord of the Rings fan, and just happened to sit down and watch this episode with a friend, I'd be like, "hell yeah".

 

The problem is, much of it feels unearned and doesn't make sense to me given what we've seen up to this point.

 

And admittedly, some of it doesn't sit well with me given my familiarity with the source material. As a LOTR fan, there are just some aspects of the characters and the lore that I envision a certain way. I can see how someone not as connected to the source material would appreciate it more.

 

I'll let it sit with me some more, but for now I give the season as a whole a 6/10. I was pleasantly surprised when the first two episodes felt like they had established the beginnings of a cohesive narrative. The season wasn't able to build on this consistently from episode to episode, for me - with ups and downs, and episode 6 being the real high point. All IMHO.

 

I will continue watching into season 2, because while it is uneven, there are those moments in the show that feel Tolkien and remind me of what I love about Middle-Earth. The Harfoots and their storyline were the strength of this final episode, as they have been much of the season.

 

Peace,

Mike

 

P.S. I've fallen in love with the score for this series. Props to Bear McCreary for winning me over - I didn't give him a chance because I hold Howard Shore and his work on the LOTR trilogy so closely.

[cookie]

Spoiler

I honestly don't understand how Halbrand/Sauron's plan was supposed to work. I feel like it relies on far too many coincidences and other characters coming to decisions he had no visible influence on. Galadriel came to the conclusion that he was "The King of the Southlands" on her own accord, which given the twist that the lineage died out centuries ago rather makes me wonder where she even got the idea that there still was a lineage from.

 

Halbrand even spent the first half of the season adamant that he shouldn't get involved, so if he was playing Galadriel this whole time... what did all that hesitance serve? To test wether Galadriel would be steadfast to him? If Galadriel had been like "k, I'm going to the Southlands on my own then, bye," and just left him at Numenor, would that have sunk his whole scheme? Would he instead have tried influencing the Numenorians, or would he have just given up?

 

Heck, if Elrond hadn't successfully acquired a piece of mithril, the rings wouldn't even have been able to be forged, which I guess is what Sauron was ultimately after. That's again an element of his plan that relies on an entire part of the story playing out in a way that he had zero influence on, and just happened to line up in a way that could benefit him.

 

Adar apparently not recognizing him as Sauron doesn't really add up either, nor the whole scene where he triggers Halbrand/Sauron by mentioning a dead child. Again... what's the point of that? Any answers season two provides are just gonna feel like the show filling in the blanks after the fact.

 

And the white witches confusing proto-Gandalf with him served... what exactly? Having both storylines running at the same time I didn't think amounted to much other than have the Harfoots/Istari plot serve as one giant red herring. The Harfoot plot should've been its own thing in a separate season instead of serving as a distraction in this one, I feel.

 

The whole reveal was one giant mess and felt like something they decided upon at the last minute. They should've waited to reveal this for maybe at least one more season if they were going in this direction, so that there's a chance for it to at least play out much more naturally. As it is, I just find it to be a giant clunker and made the show way more convoluted than it needed to be. And here I was actually started to get more into the show after the last two episodes, and then it decided to throw this nonsense of a curveball. Disappointing. But at least the ending of the Harfoot storyline was sweet enough.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by cookie

[AN9815]

I must be the only one around here that liked the finale and is pretty excited for future seasons. I mean I didn't think it was perfect but overall the first season has been pretty good and enjoyable, high quality TV content IMO.  

 

Spoiler

Now, I know most of us guessed that Halbrand was Sauron from episode 2 but I don't think that is the case for general audiences. I mean it was pretty clear from the characters they had presented that Sauron was either going to be him or someone they still hadn't shown us. I don't think they were trying to trick the audience with this reveal but I have talked with a lot of friends and family who watch the show and are not on social media like me and they felt surprised when it was revealed. For me personally, even though I saw it coming the only thing I did not understand was why Halbrand was adrift on a raft in the middle of the sea and his further motivation with the Southland storyline. I hope they explain this in season 2. 

 

The season had its problems, I would have structured it differently and given more time to some characters than others but overall I am pretty happy that we got this show. The song at the end was fantastic. 

 

I think one of the things this season pulled off was setting up future seasons which, if they are able to pull it off, could be fantastic. 

[Valonqar]

13 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Here are a few basic things I think they could've done to make this show not completely suck if we're still doing a compressed timeline.

 

-The main character should've been a Tauriel type She-elf(though better written).  Perhaps even make her Celebrian, daughter of God-queen Galadriel.  Celebrimbor obviously should have a much bigger and more important role and played by someone who looks like an elf.  This would've been the Elf story-line.

 

-Isildur should be co-lead in the Numenorean story line, and he should be an Aragorn or Boromir type character and not the little bitch he is this show.  Ar-Pharazon obviously should be playing a much bigger role as head of the Kingsmen and Elendil as head of The Faithful.  This would be the main human story-line.

 

-Remove and replace the awful Arondir/Bronwyn/South lands story line with one in the kingdom of Harad south of Mordor with new and original characters.  Its crazy to me they didn't do this, you could do so much with a human Kingdom that has sided with Morgoth / Sauron in the past and explore why they chose them.  This would be the secondary human story line.

 

-Beef up the Dwarf story line to something more than just boring family drama / Mithril battery nonsense.

 

-Ditch the overall ugly aesthetic of the show and make it look more like LOTR and GOT.

 

-Cut the Harfoot Hobbit story line out entirely.  They don't belong here.

 

 

 

I think you are onto something with that the hero should have been an OC. I think that there would be far less animosity if Galadriel was a new character, like you say Tauriel type, no one from canon. 

 

Isildur being a teenager is a terrible idea. Is that doofus going to be in the Battle of the Last Alliance, lmao? If the show lasts that long which I really doubt. Another terrible idea is his sister. Who the fuck asked for this character? I don't even understand what the fuck is going on in that plotline. She's an architect and makes goo-goo eyes at Pharazon's son who wants to be a terrorist. Is that another shitty current politics reference like MAGAnoreans who harrassed Halbrand and hold a rally over Elves and outsiders taking their jobs? 

 

Arondir/Bronwyn/Theo/Southlands should have been removed entirely as you say. Southlands plot went literally nowhere. It was just there to create Mordor which they didn't need to create. It should have been there from the get go. Instead, they totured us with Theo's bitching, Bronwyn's laughable political speeches (why would anyone pick as a leader a character who is a florist dressed like a street corner worker?), dull as dishwasher romance (even the showrunners knew this was a dud so they immediately spotlit Galadriel/Halbrand/Sauron love triangle), Arondir's pouty arrow-fu. Fuck this shit. Oh and the key to inlocking the volcano must be the biggest JJ Abrams BS since Sith dagger lining up with the remnants of the Death Star. 

 

Also agree to cut the Harfoots cause they were on the show literally just because LOTR had Hobbits (who were central to the plot unlike here). Boring filler. Also, no one except these turbo hack writers ever wondered how Gandalf came to love and appreciate the Hobbits. Not every fuckin thing needs to be explained. It was never a mystery, you mystery box freaks!

 

Re: Dwarves. Yeah. they sum up the main problem. All plotlines are essentially mystery box + family drama no one cares about + some shitty McGuffin (the key, mithril, Southland King's crest, etc). 

 

@cookie

 

Quote

I honestly don't understand how Halbrand/Sauron's plan was supposed to work.

 

And I honestly don't know if there was ever a plan. He couldn't have played 4D chess all the time, like anticipate that Galadriel would jump off the ship. So it seems that there were just rando circumstances that worked out in his favor because she got hyped that he could be King of Southland (transaltion: useful to her scheme) because he had a fancy crest with him. That he said was not his. Galadriel is truly a sack of bricks on this show.

 

Quote

where he triggers Halbrand/Sauron by mentioning a dead child. Again... what's the point of that?

 

I think that's just typical JJ misdirection without any meaning. I read it as that Adar assumed Halbrand was a disgruntled Southlander like 1000s of them, and that his grudge would be over losing a wife and/or a child as is always the case in a war. So just a general taunt he would level at anyone. I also read Halbrand's reaction as that he reacting like a human would cause it was part of his cover, not that he actually had a child that he lost. Or maybe he was so pissed to come face to face with his would be murderer he didn't have to pretend, though he did seem more upset when Adar mentioned "child". 

 

I still don't understand what Sauron achieved in this season. His plan to stay in Numenor was derailed. He had to quit working in Eregion after like 3 hours, or they would fire him for using fake ID.  He lost King of Southland title cause a) Galadriel finally did some background check on him that she should have done before making him King and b) Adar turned it into Mordor (cue logo change). But I guess acquiring Dark Lord cloak and teased hair of villainy amount to a win. 

 

 

BTW, did it ever occure to Galadriel that forging something that Sauron advised wasn't a very good idea? That on top of not telling the Elves that H=S and Elves convineintly not asking why she soured on her pet. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Valonqar

[Factcheck]

Today I saw the finale. Except episode 3 and episode 6, all the other episodes were boring. The finale was boring too, but that scene of Harfoots, Meteor man and 3 Wizards was good. There was no balance of drama and action in the show, there was more drama and very less action. And the action scenes were also nothing special. The visuals and background music were good. Overall the show was average. I give it 7/10 rating. I like to watch female lead ensemble shows/movies so my rating is a bit biased.

[jedijake]

I actually quite liked that last episode. They actually have somewhere to go in the 2nd season. Whether this will actually last 5 seasons, I am not sure.

[cax16]

Enjoyed the whole season, looking forward to next season. 

[jedijake]

People say that the whole Southlands was a waste. But was it? The reason Sauron wanted it so bad is because he wanted a diversion war while he had his minions create the volcanic eruption that resulted in Mount Doom. He wanted to take over that land while attracting as many there to their death as possible. Meanwhile, unbeknownst to anyone, he had the first ring, the ONE ring forged there. But of course he couldn't use it for power unless he had others he could control. So the other three made by the elves were done so by his mind control so that he could rule them. At the end, both Celebrimbor and Galadriel were under his mind control and Elrond was not.

 

And yeah it's obvious that the bearded one is Gandalf OR Saruman. We will likely see the entire council of wizards. Part of me wonders if Elrond seeks the wizards in order to release Galadriel from the ring's control.

 

This show started off slow, but got really good in the last 3 episodes. Now there's truly (at least in me) a feeling of not wanting to wait to see what happens next.

[Hatebox]

The funny thing about the Sauron mystery box is that if I hadn’t looked this forum I don’t think I’d have even realised it was meant to be a big season-long question. So one character among many I don’t care about is the bad guy, it’s now been revealed and he’s buggered off so it’s basically back to square one as far as he’s concerned. That was the draw??

 

There’s just so much wrong with this show that critiquing the finale feels redundant, but if I was in this for the long run I’d hope they at least sort out the pacing next season. There’s no sense of geography, there’s no sense of time, and narrative threads that should take multiple episodes are done in single scenes. For a prequel it’s in such a rush. You’d think it’d want to mine every second it can from its predetermined path, but… nah.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Hatebox

[Valonqar]

 

3 hours ago, jedijake said:

People say that the whole Southlands was a waste. But was it? The reason Sauron wanted it so bad is because he wanted a diversion war while he had his minions create the volcanic eruption that resulted in Mount Doom.

 

What minions? Adar created the eruption. He hated Sauron so he definitely didn't do his bidding. He made Mordor for his children so that they didn't have to hide from the sun. He created their home. 

 

Sauron wanted to stay in Numenor. It's Galadriel who derailed him and that would be fine if he remained King and launched his second power trip from that position. Instead, they dropped it like a hot potato to get him to Eregion and then dropped like a hot potato his work with Elves in order to have their BIG REVEAL NO ONE COULD SEE COMING. So yes, Southlands was a total waste including that we had to sit through interminable Arondir-Bronwyn-Theo inanities for nothing. Mordor should have been there from the get go without any of these shitty filler characters. keep Adar, though. He cool af. 

 

1 hour ago, Hatebox said:

There’s just so much wrong with this show that critiquing the finale feels redundant, but if I was in this for the long run I’d hope they at least sort out the pacing next season. There’s no sense of geography, there’s no sense of time, and narrative threads that should take multiple episodes are done in single scenes. For a prequel it’s in such a rush. You’d think it’d want to mine every second it can from its predetermined path, but… nah.

 

 

Yep. The show simply doesn't have enough hooks on week to week basis and, it could be just me, what is Season 2 hook? It felt like ending of TLJ to me. They made the reveal, cleaned the slate and the show/movie could have ended right there.

 

Among problems I'd also add that they don't seem to get some points across. Galadriel is the stupidest character on the show but the show's complete lack of awareness makes her unwittingly endearing. You just want to pat her head like that of a Labardor Retriever and say "Good girl, Luna. Good girl." Likewise, Sail to Valinor was the creepiest shit ever, like a death cult being drugged to stupor and loaded onto ships to get evaporated in some light-like death trap while singing the creepy cult song like brainwashed drones. if that shit was meant to show what a great place Valinor was and what a gift the High King bestowed upon Galadriel and her peers, it missed the mark. I was terrified. Also, we were already shown that fuckin place was populated by mean-spirited Elf children so keep it far far away. I don't think it was meant to come off that way but it did. And what about Gil-Galad's veiled harem women? WTF is that shit, lmao? I honestly don't know how to read that. 

 

When you do a show with several plotlines that don't converge immediately, you have to be really careful what you write into each to keep audience attention. otherwise, why would they care for something that doesn't add up to the whole yet. Unfortunately, they decided that almost each of those separate stories should have some type of family drama, without a slightest clue what makes family drama shows successful. The romance between a blue colar male Elf and the middle age crisis human woman with an annoying teenage son was dull as a dishwasher lacking the stakes and fairtyale enchantment that such romances between high-born characters had (Aragorn and Arwen, Beren and Luthien).Galadriel and Halbrand did it better because Elf Princess and human rogue who may be King is in that wheelhouse. Likewise, Elendil is saddled with 2 children whose problems in life (getting expelled from school, to date or not date) are just too ordinary for high fantasy show. Not that such shows don't need grounding but this is plain mundane. Durin and Disa's marriage is cute cause it says something about Dwarven culture but nothing to be excited on weekly basis. Ditto Harfoots. Speaking of, Meteor man's pupose on the show was literally just to hint that he's Gandalf. There's zero sense where his and Nori's story is going if anywhere. So in all honesty, outside of Haladriel/Sauladriel shipping, I only found Adar's story intersting enough to wonder what he would do next. Very poor score on a show with 50 characters. 

 

So whatever. I like Tolkien universe so I rewatched LOTR (unparalleled fim-making that will never be topped, and those real location vistas really draw you in, CGI worlds will never replace them) and the Hobbit (pity such simple and effective tale was turned into a relentless theme ride cause it had decent characters - Bilbo, Balin, Tauriel, Gandalf are easy to like - and character moments that feel like LOTR ones). I rank ROP slightly above Hobbit only because Hobbit theme ride action sequences grated on me too much. All that falling from heights and surviving and shit, relentless CGI movement that doesn't know when to stop, was worse than the slowest ROP moments. ROP's problem is that nothing is earned. Emotions are not earned. payoffs are not earned and for all its theme park faults, Hobbit still has them. But too far between, man. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Valonqar

[Liiviig 1998]

3 hours ago, jedijake said:

People say that the whole Southlands was a waste. But was it? The reason Sauron wanted it so bad is because he wanted a diversion war while he had his minions create the volcanic eruption that resulted in Mount Doom. He wanted to take over that land while attracting as many there to their death as possible. Meanwhile, unbeknownst to anyone, he had the first ring, the ONE ring forged there. But of course he couldn't use it for power unless he had others he could control. So the other three made by the elves were done so by his mind control so that he could rule them. At the end, both Celebrimbor and Galadriel were under his mind control and Elrond was not.

 

And yeah it's obvious that the bearded one is Gandalf OR Saruman. We will likely see the entire council of wizards. Part of me wonders if Elrond seeks the wizards in order to release Galadriel from the ring's control.

 

This show started off slow, but got really good in the last 3 episodes. Now there's truly (at least in me) a feeling of not wanting to wait to see what happens next.

Nah galadriel convinced him to go to the Southlands. Eruption plan was all Adar. The whole point of the southland  plot was just to create modor which considerable chunk of the audience knows . The whole subplot lasted 4 eps and was a waste . Man the whole point of the show the forging of the rings and they give it nothing buger minutes which just makes the elves so fucking stupid .

 

Sauron whole plan is riddled with contrivance and his plan just works by sheer luck and stupidity.

 

How galadriel discovers sauron makes her stupid .

 

The time allocated to southland and modor should have been given to the formation of the rings to flesh it out more . 

 

To make it worse the whole southland plot is pure fan fiction and writers basically shot themselves in the foot and killed the pacing of the whole show by wrapping sauron identity and ring formation in pointless mystery box writing.

 

And yeah galadriel has been on a revenge mission the whole season . Finally finds sauron and gets a drop on his plan then instead of telling the others of his plan involving the rings. She withholds vital info for the plots sake. That whole scene was monumentally stupid . CW level writing.  It severely undermines her arc and drops her IQ points 

 

I know the elves are seeking for a way to replenish themselves. The better way to do it was have galadriel tell them of sauron's plan and them arguing and saying they have no choice ,the elves and in the end deciding to make them to save their race and try to find a way to use against sauron. That would make galadriel 's arc better because she has to put her revenge aside to save her race and the elves have to carry out this questionable decision they don't want to but have to do it to save themselves which would add a spice of moral ambiguity to the elves and galadriel.

 

Can you imagine the irony , galadriel has been seeking revenge on sauron but now she has to use his plan to save her race and maybe a fighting chance against sauron . For a character who has been rigid and bent on revenge ,that would have been a good way to end her season arc.

 

Not exactly tolken like but atleast that would have been better. Effective dialogue  would have tweeked the scene.

 

Like how will the other rings be forged with them knowing it's sauron plan, now the whole continuing plot will probably become stupid and not as a result of sauron cunning and tricking them into it.

 

This episode has fucked everything to do  with the formation of the rings and now they will have to write more fanfic to dig themselves out of it or drop characters iQ for that plot to happen .

 

Or worse galadriel doesn't tell the elves at all what she knows .

 

 

 

 

[4815162342]

The problem is that they rushed to Sauron and the result was that he basically bounced around from place to place with no plan and just stirring up shit a little. It really goes against the core of Sauron which is that the dude from the second he refused Eonwe's decree that he had to return to Valinor to face the judgment of the Valar was making a plan to give himself absolute power in Middle Earth so no one would have the right to judge him. His entire MO was manipulating others into either giving him the tools he needed, or leading them astray into causing their own downfalls. To do this, in part, he assumes the form of someone utterly trustworthy and helpful.

 

How Sauron should have been handled is that

Spoiler

he honestly should not have been revealed at all in Season 1.  The big Sauron twist should not have been that he was say one person, but that multiple characters in the show in different places and different times are all Sauron, manipulating different people for different things.

 

He could have appeared in the Southlands as say an Orc, or human who follows the ways of Morgoth, or another early Uruk, for the purpose of manipulating/guiding Adar into creating Mordor so that Adar, thinking he is creating a free home for Uruks to self-determinate, is actually building the necessary home base for Sauron.

 

He could have appeared in Eregion as an Elf from across the mountains or even a different Maiar to gain the counsel and trust of Celebrimbor and slowly make Celebrimbor dependent upon his advice for creating things, and using this position to learn from Celebrimbor the missing knowledge/insight he would need to make the One Ring.

 

You could have him posing as a Dwarf in Khazad-dum who counsels Young Durin to overthrow Old Durin so as to push the Dwarves into a more industrious and grasping direction, which leads them into accepting the Seven Rings.

 

Etc. As for how you handle him doing all these things at once, Sauron in the canon prior to the end of the Second Age could assume any form he wanted, and has assumed in the Silmarillion the form of fast flying animals, so if Galadriel could ride from the border of Mordor to Eregion in six days, Flying Sauron could do that in much less.

 

You fix the goddamn stupid Elves are dying plot by having it all be a giant manipulation. No evidence in the show is given that the Elves are losing their immortality other than a single tree dying, which is enough to scare the shit out of Gil-Galad and everyone takes it as gospel. You fix this, by having the tree dying not because of some unexplained random mumbo-jumbo, but because it is being poisoned (either by Sauron or an agent of his) and Sauron uses this to stoke the fear of dying in Elves to push them into supporting Celebrimbor's work.

 

You don't have him spend 90% of the season hanging out side by side with Galadriel because the canon is clear that while she did not know he was Sauron, she did not buy the shit Annatar was selling and eventually Gil-Galad and others don't as well. As others have said, Galadriel at times is done very dirty by this.

 

I also think Halbrand works far better as a tragic hero who ultimately takes one of the Ning Human Rings out of a desire to obtain the power necessary to protect his people from the rise of Mordor, and in so doing seals his fate, and makes the relationship between him and Galadriel less haha you dummy you were fooled to a sad regret that she could not save him when it mattered most.

 

But you lay all of these pieces in Season 1 and the big reveal at the close of Season 2 is that all of these elements have played into Sauron's hands, and now he has the home base he needs, he has legions of orcs assembled for him by another, he has gotten other races to enter the trap of the Rings, and now he can reveal himself and press his attack on Middle Earth.

 

[Valonqar]

12 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

  It severely undermines her arc and drops her IQ points 

 

 Nah, her IQ was already in the toilet when she jumped off the ship intending to swim across the whole sea lol, when she decided to make Halbrand a King just because she wanted to get into his pants he had a cool crest on him that he repeatedly said wasn't his (as well as that he wasn't a hero she sought, that he did real bad shit, that he wanted to be left alone in Numenor, etc), when she insulted the Queen whose Army she needed, when she did a background check on King of Southland after she made him. It's a long list of Stupidiel. 

 

Also, what fuckin arc? She insisted she was right about Sauron being alive and she was proven right. It's a non starter.

 

Who wants to bet she and Sauron will continue to comunicate through the Force Forge Bond? That's the only dynamic on the show that's actually dynamic so they'll have to keep in alive somehow. 

 

@4815162342

 

 It really goes against the core of Sauron which is that the dude from the second he refused Eonwe's decree that he had to return to Valinor

 

Can't blame him for jumping off that singing death cult ship sailing to the land of bully Elf children. Can't blame Galadriel either. Jump was stupid af but understandable in both cases. 

 

They shouldn't have staked S1 on Sauron reveal and they staked it cause they didn't create interesting characters. Mystery box is just style where substance (good characters, good story) is lacking, polishing a turd really. The forging of the rings should have been a multi-episode or even multi-season arc around which you build drama. Instead, they dedicated 5 min to it. Gandalf eating snails got more screentime. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Valonqar

[Brainbug]

My personal main problem with Saurons portrayal in this season was that he is one of the most cunning characters in Tolkiens universe, yet here he is portrayed as just having luck that everyone else around him is a moron, including Galadriel who is in Tolkiens universe one of the most intelligent and wisest characters.

 

I want to say again that i dont hate this show - 5/10 - and i will give the 2nd season a chance when it comes around, but compared to the source material, the version of Middle-Earth that is portrayed in Rings of Power feels honestly like a really dumbed-down version of Tolkiens work and that bothers me.

 

Again, im glad for everyone who likes this show.

[Valonqar]

8 minutes ago, Brainbug said:

My personal main problem with Saurons portrayal in this season was that he is one of the most cunning characters in Tolkiens universe, yet here he is portrayed as just having luck that everyone else around him is a moron, including Galadriel who is in Tolkiens universe one of the most intelligent and wisest characters.

 

I want to say again that i dont hate this show - 5/10 - and i will give the 2nd season a chance when it comes around, but compared to the source material, the version of Middle-Earth that is portrayed in Rings of Power feels honestly like a really dumbed-down version of Tolkiens work and that bothers me.

 

Again, im glad for everyone who likes this show.

 

yep, that's this show. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Valonqar

[Ozymandias]

On 10/15/2022 at 7:43 AM, Valonqar said:

 

I think you are onto something with that the hero should have been an OC. I think that there would be far less animosity if Galadriel was a new character, like you say Tauriel type, no one from canon. 

 

Isildur being a teenager is a terrible idea. Is that doofus going to be in the Battle of the Last Alliance, lmao? If the show lasts that long which I really doubt. Another terrible idea is his sister. Who the fuck asked for this character? I don't even understand what the fuck is going on in that plotline. She's an architect and makes goo-goo eyes at Pharazon's son who wants to be a terrorist. Is that another shitty current politics reference like MAGAnoreans who harrassed Halbrand and hold a rally over Elves and outsiders taking their jobs? 

 

Arondir/Bronwyn/Theo/Southlands should have been removed entirely as you say. Southlands plot went literally nowhere. It was just there to create Mordor which they didn't need to create. It should have been there from the get go. Instead, they totured us with Theo's bitching, Bronwyn's laughable political speeches (why would anyone pick as a leader a character who is a florist dressed like a street corner worker?), dull as dishwasher romance (even the showrunners knew this was a dud so they immediately spotlit Galadriel/Halbrand/Sauron love triangle), Arondir's pouty arrow-fu. Fuck this shit. Oh and the key to inlocking the volcano must be the biggest JJ Abrams BS since Sith dagger lining up with the remnants of the Death Star. 

 

Also agree to cut the Harfoots cause they were on the show literally just because LOTR had Hobbits (who were central to the plot unlike here). Boring filler. Also, no one except these turbo hack writers ever wondered how Gandalf came to love and appreciate the Hobbits. Not every fuckin thing needs to be explained. It was never a mystery, you mystery box freaks!

 

Re: Dwarves. Yeah. they sum up the main problem. All plotlines are essentially mystery box + family drama no one cares about + some shitty McGuffin (the key, mithril, Southland King's crest, etc). 

 

@cookie

 

 

And I honestly don't know if there was ever a plan. He couldn't have played 4D chess all the time, like anticipate that Galadriel would jump off the ship. So it seems that there were just rando circumstances that worked out in his favor because she got hyped that he could be King of Southland (transaltion: useful to her scheme) because he had a fancy crest with him. That he said was not his. Galadriel is truly a sack of bricks on this show.

 

 

I think that's just typical JJ misdirection without any meaning. I read it as that Adar assumed Halbrand was a disgruntled Southlander like 1000s of them, and that his grudge would be over losing a wife and/or a child as is always the case in a war. So just a general taunt he would level at anyone. I also read Halbrand's reaction as that he reacting like a human would cause it was part of his cover, not that he actually had a child that he lost. Or maybe he was so pissed to come face to face with his would be murderer he didn't have to pretend, though he did seem more upset when Adar mentioned "child". 

 

I still don't understand what Sauron achieved in this season. His plan to stay in Numenor was derailed. He had to quit working in Eregion after like 3 hours, or they would fire him for using fake ID.  He lost King of Southland title cause a) Galadriel finally did some background check on him that she should have done before making him King and b) Adar turned it into Mordor (cue logo change). But I guess acquiring Dark Lord cloak and teased hair of villainy amount to a win. 

 

 

BTW, did it ever occure to Galadriel that forging something that Sauron advised wasn't a very good idea? That on top of not telling the Elves that H=S and Elves convineintly not asking why she soured on her pet. 

 

It is impressive how JJ Abrams and his Bad Robot alumni manage to slither their way into so many nerd IPs / franchises.  I can't stand their brand of storytelling where characters are usually defined by 1 trait and the plots are driven by MacGuffins, boring uninteresting mystery boxes, and too many coincidences rather than the motivations of the characters and their actions.  Its a way of writing that doesn't actually require sufficient plot or character motivation.  Abrams and his copycats are the worst thing thats happened to Hollywood this century.

 

1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

So whatever. I like Tolkien universe so I rewatched LOTR (unparalleled fim-making that will never be topped, and those real location vistas really draw you in, CGI worlds will never replace them) and the Hobbit (pity such simple and effective tale was turned into a relentless theme ride cause it had decent characters - Bilbo, Balin, Tauriel, Gandalf are easy to like - and character moments that feel like LOTR ones). I rank ROP slightly above Hobbit only because Hobbit theme ride action sequences grated on me too much. All that falling from heights and surviving and shit, relentless CGI movement that doesn't know when to stop, was worse than the slowest ROP moments. ROP's problem is that nothing is earned. Emotions are not earned. payoffs are not earned and for all its theme park faults, Hobbit still has them. But too far between, man. 

 

The Hobbit was a very messy and bloated affair but at least you got some good characters/actors like Gandalf, Bilbo, Thorin, Smaug, and yes Tauriel minus the dumb love triangle shit.  And Lee Pace's Elf might just be the best.  Theres also a lot of really good Howard Shore music in those movies.

[Brainbug]

8 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

The Hobbit was a very messy and bloated affair but at least you got some good characters/actors like Gandalf, Bilbo, Thorin, Smaug, and yes Tauriel minus the dumb love triangle shit.  And Lee Pace's Elf might just be the best.  Theres also a lot of really good Howard Shore music in those movies.

 

For a time i really disliked the Hobbit movies but nowadays i actually can appreciate a lot in them. Not so much in the 3rd movie, but especially in 1 and 2. Like you said, the music is amazing (Misty Mountains is bliss) and Smaug is probably the best Dragon ever depicted on theater screens. Bilbo is also a very likable and funny protagonist and even the Gandalf/Necromancer scenes i kind of like now.

 

I think the Hobbit films really suffer from living in the shadow of the LOTR trilogy. Yes, they are overlong and bloated, yes, 2 films instead of 3 would have been the better choice, yep the Tauriel love story was hilariously stupid, but at the end of the day, i can sit down to watch these movies, maybe skip the most annoying scenes and have a good time in the end.

[Menor the Destroyer]

Hobbit 1 was a fun, solid movie which generally felt close to the spirit of the book. They got progressively worse after that.