WGA/SAGAFTRA Strike Discussion Thread | SAG Ratifies Contract

[eddyxx]

28 minutes ago, elcaballero said:

Don't see a ton of jobs added here. Not a lot for humans to do when neither your physical nor intellectual labor is in demand. I guess we just consume the endless mountains of subpar slop that are generated? Seems really healthy on a societal level.

We reach closer and closer to the Wall E dystopia.

[ThomasNicole]

With way stronger presence on social media and the industry still hurted by the pandemic, i really doubt this will last as much as the last strike.

 

Hoping writers will get what they want, executives really need to learn they won´t profit at all without creatives, so pay them well.

 

TV is screwed for the next months, but movies should be fine, we didn´t seen lots of delays even in the last time, it won´t be different this time to justify all the meltdowns people are having on social media, 2023 is fine.

[keysersoze123]

No one is "Pro AI". But its inevitable. How do we stop technology. Once the script hits internet, AI will have it. So how on earth can we stop AI from learning. Major data platforms like Twitter, Reddit, Stackoverflow, Quora and I am presuming Wikipedia would also start charging to access the data via API. But it will happen for sure. 

[Porthos]

Imagine actually advocating for Hollywood to use AI as the backbone for their scripts.  Smdh.  Couldn't be me.

 

===

 

The problem, currently, with ChatGPT and the like is... it tells you what you want to hear (within a broad spectrum of "what").  For something like scriptwriting, as suggested by some in this thread, all ChatGPT is gonna do is spit out LCD pablum that while perhaps successful in the short term just leads to creative stagnation and sterility.  The WALL-E comparison is fairly apt, actually, IMO.

 

Now I'm not nearly pollyannish to presume that society as a whole is gonna keep this at bay (if only because there are a lot more folks working on this who don't give a damn/actively think that it's a great idea than there are governments that can do anything about it), but I *do* think individual sections of society can put their foot down and say "No" when it comes to internal use of ChatGPT and the like.

 

And writers absolutely should within domestic entertainment.

 

[Porthos]

Anyway, this discussion is a side point.  While it is in the negotiations, the main battle is over streaming residuals and the like and even though something like this is catnip for some folks here, it really is a shiny object and we shouldn't let ourselves get distracted by it.

 

[grim22]

 

[jeffthehat]

1 hour ago, Porthos said:

Imagine actually advocating for Hollywood to use AI as the backbone for their scripts.  Smdh.  Couldn't be me.

 

===

 

The problem, currently, with ChatGPT and the like is... it tells you what you want to hear (within a broad spectrum of "what").  For something like scriptwriting, as suggested by some in this thread, all ChatGPT is gonna do is spit out LCD pablum that while perhaps successful in the short term just leads to creative stagnation and sterility.  The WALL-E comparison is fairly apt, actually, IMO.

 

Now I'm not nearly pollyannish to presume that society as a whole is gonna keep this at bay (if only because there are a lot more folks working on this who don't give a damn/actively think that it's a great idea than there are governments that can do anything about it), but I *do* think individual sections of society can put their foot down and say "No" when it comes to internal use of ChatGPT and the like.

 

And writers absolutely should within domestic entertainment.

 

The problem is that it is undectable. Algorithms can identify language that is consistent with AI-generated output. But they're prone to false positives (e.g., OpenAI's text classifier page shows sections of Don Quixote being flagged as AI-generated). And how can you stop a writer from using an LLM to generate the broad outline of a plot or a character? It will still be used even if it is banned in name. The productivity gains are too significant to ignore on an individual level. Those who aren't using it are going to lose out to those who are. The WGA's stance seems rose-tinted and doesn't help them from a negotating standpoint, I think. I miss the world before this tech came out, and I'm afraid of what it means for the future. But I also think any attempt to block it is going to fail, so it's better to adapt our systems to account for it than to pretend nothing has changed. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by jeffthehat

[grim22]

 

[SpiderByte]

2 hours ago, keysersoze123 said:

No one is "Pro AI". But its inevitable. How do we stop technology. Once the script hits internet, AI will have it. So how on earth can we stop AI from learning. Major data platforms like Twitter, Reddit, Stackoverflow, Quora and I am presuming Wikipedia would also start charging to access the data via API. But it will happen for sure. 

They aren't asking studios to somehow get ChatGPT shut down, of course AI will still exist, they just don't want to have studios using ChatGPT as a way to stiff writers.

[TerwillikerInst]

 

[keysersoze123]

3 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

They aren't asking studios to somehow get ChatGPT shut down, of course AI will still exist, they just don't want to have studios using ChatGPT as a way to stiff writers.

Again how can one guarantee that LLM was not used. Its not just ChatGPT. There will be many others which will pop up. Facebook has Llama which is open source. Its possible to compile and run it locally on your machine. There will be other models as well. 

 

Bigger question is Writers pay and I support the move for higher initial pay and dont work for free overtime. I think its not just writers. CGI workers are getting stiffed with fixed bid deals and its not just them. In this country we cant even come into agreement for viable minimum wage that is indexed to inflation. That has to change but its not happening where things stand. 

[SpiderByte]

12 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

Again how can one guarantee that LLM was not used. Its not just ChatGPT. There will be many others which will pop up. Facebook has Llama which is open source. Its possible to compile and run it locally on your machine. There will be other models as well. 

You are identifying several of the reasons why the WGA does not want AI involved

[SpiderByte]

4 hours ago, keysersoze123 said:

Generative AI is inevitable. You cannot run away from tech however bad it looks. Every major progress took away jobs but add jobs in other ways. Before Tractor was invented, there were lot more jobs in farming. hell we had human alarm clocks before simple alarm clock was invented. I know countries would want to ban self driving cars as well as that will impact jobs. 

Those are tools, the difference is that studios don't want AI as a tool, it's as a way to not have to pay writers. In addition, AI only learns by copying other people's writing. It is not the same thing as a tractor.

[SpiderByte]

 

Also:

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by SpiderByte

[dudalb]

On 4/30/2023 at 9:40 AM, Jonwo said:

The concern trolling about a potential WGA strike is a bit tiresome, we saw what happened in 2007/8 and hardly any films got delayed, it was TV that got whacked because of the nature of television in the US especially network TV is written and shot closer to transmission.  That's should be the comparison not the first wave of the pandemic.

 

The majority of 2023 films are already shot and/or in post production and there are a number of 2024 films which are shot and/or in post production. 

This TV is what really gets hurt in a Writers strike.

[dudalb]

17 hours ago, Mojoguy said:

I cant believe Netflix is going to force a strike after a pandemic slammed the entire industry for 2 years. Netflix is trash. 

Welcome to the real world.

It ain't pretty.

[dudalb]

16 hours ago, eddyxx said:

Some one catch me up, why is Netflix being blamed?

Cause people need somebody to blame.

[dudalb]

4 hours ago, keysersoze123 said:

No one is "Pro AI". But its inevitable. How do we stop technology. Once the script hits internet, AI will have it. So how on earth can we stop AI from learning. Major data platforms like Twitter, Reddit, Stackoverflow, Quora and I am presuming Wikipedia would also start charging to access the data via API. But it will happen for sure. 

I also predict that AI written scripts will suck. 

[keysersoze123]

8 minutes ago, dudalb said:

I also predict that AI written scripts will suck. 

I think you are going to be surprised. Its matter of time before they are indistinguishable from human written ones. They are improving at a scary rate now. You should read this.

[Eric Duncan]