Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[cdsacken]

4 hours ago, Ororo Munroe said:

Lol No. Phillips' version is closer to the men we see in real life, which is why there is so much controversy around the movie. Joker in SS and TDK were closer to a fantasy, the comic book version of the character. And most importantly, there was no attempt to explain why the Joker is who he is via some wannabe deep, political message. 

Incels fantasizin about murdering those who slighted them and perhaps anyone around them as well.

 

[Ororo Munroe]

3 hours ago, Firepower said:

You missed the point of my post, it was about the fact that Phillips' Joker is not shown as "cool" or "inspiring", and violence in the movie is shown something repulsive and very disturbing, nobody will be inspired by it. If anybody could be inspired by Joker to do bad things, there's much bigger chance he'll be inspired by glamorized fantasy version of Joker who looks "cool", says "cool" phrases and does "cool" things.

First of all, you haven't seen the movie. Secondly, Ledger's Joker was not painted as cool or inspiring, there was no attempt to make him sympathetic or blame others for his actions. He was a villain, responsible for his own actions and the movie made that clear. What could be seen as inspiring is a Joker who is shown as a loser, one who's been abandoned or neglected by society...you know, like how a lot of the dangerous men we know in real life see themselves? 

[Firepower]

11 minutes ago, Ororo Munroe said:

First of all, you haven't seen the movie. Secondly, Ledger's Joker was not painted as cool or inspiring, there was no attempt to make him sympathetic or blame others for his actions. He was a villain, responsible for his own actions and the movie made that clear. What could be seen as inspiring is a Joker who is shown as a loser, one who's been abandoned or neglected by society...you know, like how a lot of the dangerous men we know in real life see themselves? 

First of all, I read the script and I've seen leaked footage, Phillips' Joker is scary, real and definitely not "cool"/"inspiring", he's repulsive, he's only sympathetic until he becomes the villain, which is perfectly fine, that's the whole point, and the movie makes it clear that what he becomes in the end is wrong, and that's not just my opionion, a lot of people who saw it say that the movie doesn't side with him. Ledger's Joker is more glamorized, he was never scary and a lot of people definitely consider him "cool" and that "he's right", you can just check tons of comments under Dark Knight clips alone.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Firepower

[Ororo Munroe]

23 minutes ago, Firepower said:

First of all, I read the script and I've seen leaked footage, Phillips' Joker is scary, real and definitely not "cool"/"inspiring", he's repulsive, he's only sympathetic until he becomes the villain, which is perfectly fine, that's the whole point, and the movie makes clear that he becomes in the end is wrong, and that's not just my opionion, a lot of people who saw it say that the movie doesn't side with him. Ledger's Joker is more glamorized, he was never scary and a lot of people definitely consider him "cool" and that "he's right", you can just check tons of comments under Dark Knight clips alone.

As I said, you haven't seen movie. That he is sympathetic at all is what people are objecting to. 

 

Saying that a lot of people saw Ledger's Joker as cool or he's right is hardly damning given that people say the same about plenty of other villains. The difference between them and this Joker is that they don't resemble men who terrorize people in real life. Add that to the fact that this movie centers such a man and makes him sympathetic and you get the current controversy.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Ororo Munroe

[WittyUsername]

The funny thing about all this is that Infinity War was also centered around a villain, and it went through great lengths to humanize him in spite of all the atrocities he committed, yet there was hardly any controversy over that. 

 

For the record, I actually like IW quite a bit. I just think it’s funny how that movie got a pass for making you sympathize with the murderous bad guy, while Joker is apparently problematic for doing the same. 

[Firepower]

11 minutes ago, Ororo Munroe said:

As I said, you haven't seen movie. That he is sympathetic at all is what people are objecting to. 

 

Saying that a lot of people saw Ledger's Joker as cool or he's right is hardly damning given that people say the same about plenty of other villains. The difference between them and this Joker is that they don't resemble men who terrorize people in real life. Add that to the fact that this movie centers such a man and makes him sympathetic and you get the current controversy.

Again, he's sympathetic until he starts doing bad things, he's not sympathetic from start to finish. I can list a bunch of Marvel villains who also resemble terrorists (Killmonger (and he's shown as sympathetic even though he kills innocent people from the very beginning), Mandarin, Zemo (also shown as sympathetic) for example) and nobody gives a damn about it. Also Joker WAS a terrorist in The Dark Knight. Hypocrisy as its worst.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Firepower

[Ororo Munroe]

14 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

The funny thing about all this is that Infinity War was also centered around a villain, and it went through great lengths to humanize him in spite of all the atrocities he committed, yet there was hardly any controversy over that. 

 

For the record, I actually like IW quite a bit. I just think it’s funny how that movie got a pass for making you sympathize with the murderous bad guy, while Joker is apparently problematic for doing the same. 

IW is a full fledged comic book movie, for one...it has plenty of superheroes to offset its major villain. And last I checked, there not a major real-world issue with large purple men wanting to wipe out half of the population (the same would apply to someone like Killmonger).

 

It's truly hilarious now seeing fans claim that other comic book movies or villains weren't criticized the same way when the same fans spent months propping up this Joker movie exactly because it was not like any other comic book movie. Lol 

[WittyUsername]

1 minute ago, Ororo Munroe said:

IW is a full fledged comic book movie, for one...it has plenty of superheroes to offset its major villain. And last I checked, there not a major real-world issue with large purple men wanting to wipe out half of the population (the same would apply to someone like Killmonger).

 

It's truly hilarious now seeing fans claim that other comic book movies or villains weren't criticized the same way when the same fans spent months propping up this Joker movie exactly because it was not like any other comic book movie. Lol 

Genocide is a real world issue. 

[Legion Again]

31 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

The funny thing about all this is that Infinity War was also centered around a villain, and it went through great lengths to humanize him in spite of all the atrocities he committed, yet there was hardly any controversy over that. 

 

For the record, I actually like IW quite a bit. I just think it’s funny how that movie got a pass for making you sympathize with the murderous bad guy, while Joker is apparently problematic for doing the same. 

Presumably they weren’t concerned that people would try to emulate me by tracking down 6 magic rocks and snapping my fingers to save the universe.

[AnDr3s]

 

[WittyUsername]

9 minutes ago, Thanos Legion said:

Presumably they weren’t concerned that people would try to emulate me by tracking down 6 magic rocks and snapping my fingers to save the universe.

Blaming movies for acts of violence is no different from blaming violent video games. What exactly is speculating that a movie will inspire some nut to shoot people supposed to accomplish? Are people trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Edited September 25, 2019 by WittyUsername

[Ororo Munroe]

1 minute ago, WittyUsername said:

Genocide is a real world issue. 

So are plenty of other issues in CBMs. Lets stick to the major distinction: the characters at the center of story or the ones committing the acts. 

 

[WittyUsername]

7 minutes ago, Ororo Munroe said:

So are plenty of other issues in CBMs. Lets stick to the major distinction: the characters at the center of story or the ones committing the acts. 

 

Again, Thanos was the center of the story in IW. Not only did he have more screen time than any of the heroes, but he was the one character in the movie who had a complete arc. The movie very much played out as his journey. IW was his story. 

[SpiderByte]

28 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

Genocide is a real world issue. 

Not on a galactic level by way of magic space jewels by a purple alien tyrant.

 

A lonely white guy who's sad at how life is unfair to him going on a murder spree, however, happens basically every few days in America. It's only a novel story if you literally just don't watch the news.

Edited September 25, 2019 by SpiderByte

[Ororo Munroe]

18 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

Again, Thanos was the center of the story in IW. Not only did he have more screen time than any of the heroes, but he was the one character in the movie who had a complete arc. The movie very much played out as his journey. IW was his story. 

Yes, lets just ignore that Thanos is a large purple alien. 

[WittyUsername]

21 minutes ago, Ororo Munroe said:

Yes, lets just ignore that Thanos is a large purple alien. 

The Joker is a fictional character just like Thanos. This trend of blaming movies and video games for acts of violence needs to stop. 

[Lordmandeep]

1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:

The funny thing about all this is that Infinity War was also centered around a villain, and it went through great lengths to humanize him in spite of all the atrocities he committed, yet there was hardly any controversy over that. 

 

For the record, I actually like IW quite a bit. I just think it’s funny how that movie got a pass for making you sympathize with the murderous bad guy, while Joker is apparently problematic for doing the same. 

 

 

I think thing is Joker has no purpose but to cause trouble  and suffering.

 

Thanos while flawed thinks he is doing something for the 'greater good'

[Ororo Munroe]

1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:

The Joker is a fictional character just like Thanos. This trend of blaming movies and video games for acts of violence needs to stop. 

I'm not sure if you're being willfully obtuse or not but again, the issue is that this Joker resembles violent men we see in real life and if some see this movie as making such men sympathetic, that's a valid criticism. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Ororo Munroe

[dudalb]

19 hours ago, The Chad DC said:

Just imagine walking into a theatre and boom a military guy strapped with an assault rifle. A self-fulfilling prophecy at this point, hope I'm wrong though.

 

If one can't feel safe in movie theaters, a place of escapism, then where can they feel safe? Glad I'm Canadian (though that's still not saying much).

 

P.s. i would upvote your comments, but im out of reactions today!

In today's world, violence can strike anywhere. 

A few thousand peoples working in their offices in NYC got killed not that long ago...…...

Welcome to the real world, pal. 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by dudalb

[dudalb]

1 hour ago, Ororo Munroe said:

I'm not sure if you're being willfully obtuse or not but again, the issue is that this Joker resembles violent men we see in real life and if some see this movie as making such men sympathetic, that's a valid criticism. 

And movies like that have been around since at least "Taxi Driver" and would not be surprised if there were a few others.