Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[RandomCat]

13 minutes ago, TalismanRing said:

 

 

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=jamesbond.htm&adjust_yr=1&p=.htm

 

Bond is British and Fleming certainly was but Cubby was from Queens, NYC , Saltzman was from Canada and the studios that financed them were American based.  They're Hollywood.  Sure they use UK studios but so do Marvel and Star Wars movies.

 

The only reason Dalton's first movie made more than Moore's last is because Moore's seventh made so little, aside from Golden Gun it was the nadir of his Bond career.  Even then Living Daylights sold fewer tickets in the US than AVTAK.  The global market has expanded drastically since Connery as Bond and every decade since so comparisons over 50 plus years are really difficult especially when we also ass in inflation..  But as regards the US, in terms of admissions Craig's first did less business in the US than Brosnan's last, of Craig's tenure only Skyfall sold more tickets in the US than than DAD (or TND).  QOS and Spectre both sold fewer in the U.S. than all of Brosnan's films.   Only Skyfall and it's 50th Anniversary reaches and passes Connery's second tier level of YOLT. 

Lazenby was a self inflicted wound.   The Lazenby change was a disaster financially, it dropped 50% from YOLT which had just dropped about 50% from TB.  Then they scrambled to get Connery back.  If they'd had a choice (or maybe weren't so greedy) they wouldn't have let Connery go in the first place.  In terms of admissions in the US, none of the films after Connery's tenure are even close to his high points and only a handful match his lowest, even WW it's a challenge.    Now Connery's tenure by the end was also sloping downward after the GF and TB peak but YOLT still ranks 4th in US admissions and even Diamonds (post Lazenby experiment) is top 10.   Parallels could be made between Connery/Lazenby and Damon/Bourne, with the drop off and the the bounce up but not as up as it was before the change.  Hmm....maybe that means someone Roger Moore -like is the Bourne.

 

 

 

Eon Productions is an American-owned British film production company. In other words, it's a British production company, financed by Americans. You can't just go "In the US" when talking about a film series that made equal or more the UK. After all, success in the UK is just as important to it's survival as in the US, and trying to cut out half gross isn't an accurate representation of the series or success of the bonds. And since we can't use EST Tickets for the UK, it becomes impossible to measure on that regard as well.

 

Look at Die Another day to Casino Royale. 219M between UK and US for DAD, while CR earned 273M. That's a marked difference growth, even dealing with 4 years of inflation, that is still an increase.

Edited September 2, 2016 by RandomJC

[TalismanRing]

5 minutes ago, DMan7 said:

Maybe all the Chris's (Star Lord, Cap and Thor) will die in Infinity War to avoid all the confusion on set when calling their names.

 

One more Tom and they'll have the same problem, unless they kill off Loki or Spider-Man. 

[RandomCat]

10 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Just because they didn't have weight for you doesn't mean they were just killed willy nilly or that their deaths didn't serve a purpose to the narrative.

 

You're right. perhaps I'm too harsh on GoT's deaths. They're still props to serve a function. Whedon still kills everyone because he can, and nothing you say can change that.

[TalismanRing]

23 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

 

Eon Productions is an American-owned British film production company. In other words, it's a British production company, financed by Americans. You can't just go "In the US" when talking about a film series that made equal or more the UK. After all, success in the UK is just as important to it's survival as in the US, and trying to cut out half gross isn't an accurate representation of the series or success of the bonds. And since we can't use EST Tickets for the UK, it becomes impossible to measure on that regard as well.

 

It's not just financed by Americans but owned by Americans and is a subsidiary of Danjaq a private US holding co based in L.A..  Broccoli and Wilson are American.   UK admissions are out there somewhere and Connery I think still rules the roost with Craig the next and with Lazenby and Dalton still by far the lowest, as it is in most comparable markets.  The point stands there have successful and unsuccessful Bond actors, the series has not gone from success to success.  There have been peaks and valleys of box office not just in terms of films but actor tenures and the first is still the one all others are measured against and not just in terms of performance.  If Cubby & Saltzman had it do over again they would have dealt with Connery differently and not forced an unnecessary change before it's time.  We see this with Moore in whom they held on to for a film or two too long.  Of course there was going to eventually be change because of age and the nature of an action heavy physical series but again don't burn your bridge before you need to.  Even with the changing  Dr. Whos I think all the recent ones (don't know the specifics or the others) have been actors leaving of their own accord, not because the powers that be wanted a change.

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by TalismanRing

[RandomCat]

13 minutes ago, TalismanRing said:

 

It's not just financed by Americans but owned by Americans.  Broccoli and Wilson are American.   UK admissions are out there somewhere and Connery I think still rules the roost with Craig the next and with Lazenby and Dalton still by far the lowest, as it is in most comparable markets.  The point stands there have successful and unsuccessful Bond actors, the series has not gone from success to success.  There have been peaks and valleys of box office not just in terms of films but actor tenures and the first is still the one all others are measured against and not just in terms of performance.  If Cubby & Saltzman had it do over again they would have dealt with Connery differently and not forced an unnecessary change before it's time.  We see this with Moore in whom they held on to for a film or two too long.  Of course there was going to eventually be change because of age and the nature of a psychical series but again don't burn your bridge before you need to.  Even with the changing  Dr. Whos I think all the recent ones (don't know the specifics or the others) have been actors leaving of their own accord, not because there needed to be change.

 

 

End of the day, it's a BRITISH Company, based in Britain, hiring Brits, whose main studio is in Britain. You can't talk about US alone, like you were doing, and dismissing out of hand the fact that UK is just as important market for the films.

 

Every Bond has been successful. 

 

The only actor that EON forced out was Brosnan. Connery left on his own, so did Lazenby, Moore, and Dalton. They even begged Moore to stay, because of Never Say Never Again. 

 

And of course, Connery isn't the only base line. Plenty of people use Moore as the quintessential Bond. Others look at Craig as the best of them. 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by RandomJC

[Harpospoke]

22 hours ago, Johnny Tran said:

 

But then so does Fantastic Four and Daredevil.

I didn't count them because there are a bunch of cooks in the kitchen. There were reports that Marvel Entertainment had a lot of influence but there were reports they had very little influence.

 

With The Dark Knight trilogy.  That is WB. These films are ALL WB.

 

Yep...gotta count all the bad ones.   But now you've got to count Catwoman, Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, Steel, Superman Returns, Quest for Peace, Batman Forever, Batman and Robin....it is just better to stick with the shared universe movies or it gets messy.

 

22 hours ago, robertman2 said:

Video game wise I'd say DC is winning right now

 

But Superman 64 is a thing, so...

 

For me the best superhero game was City of Heroes and it's not close.     

 

 

21 hours ago, TalismanRing said:

 

Marvel have been using great supporting casts with top notch actors form the first movies.  So much so there are complaints that some of them get wasted.  Jeff Bridges, Tommy Lee Jones, Anthony Hopkins, William Hurt, Stanley Tucci etc.  There's also been Robert Redford, Glenn Close, del Toro etc.   Hell, look at Dr. Strange's cast.

 

That was my first thought.   The Thor casting looks the same as their other casting to me.   If they come out with a movie that's NOT cast in that manner, then that will be different.

 

19 hours ago, Johnny Tran said:

Speaking of death, looking back on it..  I really think they should have killed off Nick Fury in Winter Soldier. My theater was STUNNED but in a good way. In a way where everyone was like "damn that's sad, get 'em Cap!" but then Fury pops back up.  It didn't ruin the movie or anything but I'd like to see some more emotional weight added to these missions. Nobody cares about Quiksilver, unfortunately.

 

I think to make Thanos a legitimate threat he needs to drop some bodies.

 

What is this obsession with killing off hero characters?   When did that become a thing?   And why is it only Marvel that is required to do that?   DC can fake kill Batman and Superman and that's ok?

 

Especially wondering how anyone is shocked that these comics characters die and come back.   Am I the only one who read comics?    That's what they do....both companies.

 

Almost all story telling revolves around the hero winning.   This happens and the audiences love it.   We know they will win in the end.   There are plenty of "stakes"....we don't have to see them lose to believe it.    Ever hear of suspension of disbelief?

 

17 hours ago, DMan7 said:

If anyone is going to die I believe it will end up being Hawkeye, they won't kill off any of the other Avengers and if they do it'll just be temporary. 

 

Ok...I'll go with that.    No interest in archer characters.   Green Arrow and Hawkeye can both go away and I won't even notice.

 

17 hours ago, lupinw45 said:

In terms of comics, DC is definitely more praised by critics and has won more awards than any other publisher.

 

 

http://www.cbr.com/25-years-of-the-eisner-awards/

 

So we are back to citing critics again?       Hard to keep track of when critics are smart and when they are stupid.

 

5 hours ago, Daxtreme said:

 

Star Wars has shown us that, even if you kill a popular character, if it's done properly people will accept it.

 

I'm not buying that completely until he doesn't return.   I'm not getting fooled again.   Dying off screen with no body is the oldest trick in the book.   (Hell...they even come back if you see them die at times)

 

1 hour ago, RandomJC said:

 

Because some actors will get too old to play the part believably anymore, and killing them off to resurrect them provides an in built excuse why Captain America doesn't look like Chris Evans anymore, and you get the punch of actually killing an actor.

 

Now that sounds like a decent idea.

 

1 hour ago, TalismanRing said:

 

Whedon was too kill happy.  Death is part of life and sometimes intrinsic to the plot.  Joyce's death while gut wrenching not only gave maybe the best episode but also an aftermath that affected Buffy and her journey and life.   Other deaths not so much and the last episode just had meaningless death.  Though in comparison to Angel, Buffy wasn't too bad. Angel was a death factory for it's cast.

 

Cap has already "died" as a heroic sacrifice.  Sure he was defrosted almost 70 years alter but he was dead to the world and himself.  If they killed him off in IW he wouldn't stay dead anyway.  They could replace him with a lame Cap substitute but Steve Rogers is the only Cap that matters, so they'd just re-cast.

 

I love Whedon, but agreed.   Never going to forgive the death of Wash....never.

 

And yes...there is only one Cap.   Enough of these lame "put another person in the suit" storylines.

[TalismanRing]

28 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

 

End of the day, it's a BRITISH Company, based in Britain, hiring Brits, whose main studio is in Britain. You can't talk about US alone, like you were doing, and dismissing out of hand the fact that UK is just as important market for the films.

 

Every Bond has been successful. 

 

The only actor that EON forced out was Brosnan. Connery left on his own, so did Lazenby, Moore, and Dalton. They even begged Moore to stay, because of Never Say Never Again. 

 

And of course, Connery isn't the only base line. Plenty of people use Moore as the quintessential Bond. Others look at Craig as the best of them. 

 

 

 

The US is still the single most important and largest market for Bond films, even if they proportionally do better, and culturally are more important in the UK.  Regardless, the people in charge are American and the companies that write the checks are Hollywood based.

 

Connery is the base line,  every actor is measured against him whether they think that actor is better or worse.   All success isn't the same and every Bond has not been successful unless one considers not completely tanking the series as success. 

 

Their greed forced Connery out, if they had dealt with him better he would have stayed longer.  Dalton was forced out by Calley at MGM, he left or was going to be pushed.  He decided not to put Cubby in a bad position and resigned because MGM would not finance another Bond film with Dalton in the lead.  Moore and Cubby played the will he or won't he dance for almost every film in the last half of his tenure.  More even made another movie after the Octopussy/ NSNA thing.   Cubby had learned from Connery not to let the sure thing go as easy for potential because sometimes that means winding up with a Lazenby.  As a result he held on a bit too long.  Something Barbara didn't want to repeat with Brosnan but is trying to repeat with Craig.

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by TalismanRing

[Johnny Tran]

Thanos needs to be legitimized as a threat. If not, then what good is he or the infinity stones. He needs to take care of business 

[Water Bottle]

I don't think TWS should have killed off Fury. Nick Fury needs to stay alive as long as Samuel L. Jackson wants to appear in these movies. 

 

I don't think necessarily fake killing him was right either but eh TWS makes it work.

[Captain Craig]

20 hours ago, DMan7 said:

If anyone is going to die I believe it will end up being Hawkeye, they won't kill off any of the other Avengers and if they do it'll just be temporary. 

...just like in the comics. The template is working. 

[Kalo]

9 hours ago, TalismanRing said:

 

It was fine although overly dependent on nostalgia.  Better than the prequels -  better acted, paced and plotted and more fun if not as imaginative, but no where near the first trilogy.  It made me appreciate ROTJ more and I was always considered that the weakling of the OT. (bleeping ewoks)

 

 

 

I agree it was little heavy on nostalgia, and the story was kind of weak, but I still loved it. but I love all three OT movies, and 1/3 of the prequels so I guess I'm just easier to please.

[Marek the Jedi]

On 26. 8. 2016 at 8:04 AM, junkshop36 said:

Star Wars>>>>>>>>>Marvel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DCEU

 

 

 

Also, I'm 41 and I LOOOOOOOVE Pixar. 

 

dude  totaly absolutly SAME with me  hehe, I am just 5 years older

Edited September 3, 2016 by Marek the Jedi

[The Futurist]

Star Wars fans are funny, there are a bit like the PC Master Race of the franchise Game.

 

They really believe the World was made like this by God :

 

There IS STAR WARS !!! Awesome ! Lightsabers !!! Swoosh !! Vader !!!!!!!!

 

& the Rest.

 

Give them Lightsabers, Ben Burtt's amazing sound design, A John Williams cue & fanfare, cute little robots, the Force, an opening crawl, stormtroopers, the Millennium Falcon & they will giggle like a Taylor Swift fan watching  a trailer that features any of these elements.

 

They are often condescending towards superhero movies, they often bitch about them, always reducing Superhero movies fans as "fanboys", making fun (sometimes worse) of how the Marvel vs DC war is childish and stupid and boring and lame but make no mistake, dare to criticize Star Wars with strong and valid arguments and they will get as defensive & insecure as your average Batman or Iron Man fan.

Star Wars' fans even use arguments to criticize superhero movies that are also valid with Star Wars but they aren't self-aware enough to realize it.

 

The love Star Wars' fans feel for this universe is as immature, irrationnal, human, pure & childish as Superheroes fans feel for DC and Marvel or any other franchise or universe.

Don't ever say that Star Wars scores almost all the boxes of the YA genre (young teens with hearts of gold rebel against an oppresive regime ...wait, Katniss is force sensitive ?) or that Jedis are technically superheroes at their core with their abilities and funny clothes or worse, dare to imply Force Awakens is a quasi remake of A New Hope and be labelled as a troll by a BOT's Admin.

But most of all, don't remind a Star Wars fan that Star Wars was always envisionned by George Lucas as movies for little kids (hence the Ewoks & Jar Jar Binks) and that Marvel & Stan Lee were trying to reach an older audience , teenage kids.

 

To make a long story short, yes, Star Wars fans are funny, I love them.

 

Disclaimer : I am a huge Star Wars fan, like everybody else, and the Ewoks are freaking awesome ! Yub Nub !

The Prequels have plenty of terrific things in them.

Edited September 4, 2016 by The Futurist

[Ozymandias]

On September 3, 2016 at 5:33 AM, Marek the Jedi said:

 

dude  totaly absolutly SAME with me  hehe, I am just 5 years older

 

Is that Rick McCallum in your avatar? 

[Marek the Jedi]

1 minute ago, Ozymandias said:

 

Is that Rick McCallum in your avatar? 

 

yes that me with Rick McCallum  I was lucky to be at one after party (video/audio tools expo...), and superlucky, I could talk and be with him almost 2 hours  

[4815162342]

26 minutes ago, The Futurist said:

Star Wars fans are funny, there are a bit like the PC Master Race of the franchise Game.

 

They really believe the World was made like this by God :

 

There IS STAR WARS !!! Awesome ! Lightsabers !!! Swoosh !! Vader !!!!!!!!

 

& the Rest.

 

Give them Lightsabers, Ben Burtt's amazing sound design, A John Williams cue & fanfare, cute little robots, the Force, an opening crawl, stormtroopers, the Millennium Falcon & they will giggle like a Taylor Swift fan watching  a trailer that features any of these elements.

 

They are often condescending towards superhero movies, they often bitch about them, always reducing Superhero movies fans as "fanboys", making fun (sometimes worse) of how the Marvel vs DC war is childish and stupid and boring and lame but make no mistake, dare to criticize Star Wars with strong and valid arguments and they will get as defensive & insecure as your average Batman or Iron Man fan.

Star Wars' fans even use arguments to criticize superhero movies that are also valid with Star Wars but they aren't self-aware enough to realize it.

 

The love Star Wars' fans feel for this universe is as immature, irrationnal, human, pure & childish as Superheroes fans feel for DC and Marvel or any other franchise or universe.

Don't ever say that Star Wars scores almost all the boxes of the YA genre (young teens with hearts of gold rebel against an oppresive regime ...wait, Katniss is force sensitive ?) or that Jedis are technically superheroes at their core with their abilities and funny clothes or worse, dare to imply Force Awakens is a quasi remake of A New Hope and be labelled as a troll by a BOT's Admin.

But most of all, don't recall to a Star Wars fan that Star Wars was always envisionned by Goerge Lucas as movies for little kids (hence the Ewoks & Jar Jar Binks) and that Marvel & Stan Lee were trying to reach an older audience , teenage kids.

 

To make a long story short, yes, Star Wars fans are funny, I love them.

 

[FilmBuff]

I didn't like TFA either. It was pretty average. I grew up reading all the Star Wars books and comics. I had seen much better storylines thrown away for a rehashed movie of ANH. Han Solo's death was pretty terrible and had no emotions.

[Gustavo]

how is possible to not like TFA? It was the first movie i watched 3 times on cinemas

[robertman2]

4 minutes ago, Gustavo said:

how is possible to not like TFA? It was the first movie i watched 3 times on cinemas

Only 3?                                                                                                                                    

[DMan7]

Just now, robertman2 said:

Only 3?                                                                                                                                    

 

I've seen it once.