Black Widow | July 9 2021 | ScarJo secures the bag from Disney

[lorddemaxus]

9 minutes ago, Lokis Legion said:

They’re all superhero movies, but they’re a spy thriller superhero movie, a martial arts superhero movie, etc. That variety is obviously part of what keeps them fresh.

There's some textural variety, but they still follow a pretty basic formula. All these films have way more in common with other superhero movies than whatever other genre they are appropriating. I really doubt Black Widow has much in common with Bond or Bourne. People aren't continuing to watch these films because they are "fresh".

Edited July 1, 2021 by lorddemaxus

[Menor the Destroyer]

7 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

There's some textural variety, but they still follow a pretty basic formula. All these films have way more in common with other superhero movies than whatever other genre they are appropriating. I really doubt Black Widow has much in common with Bond or Bourne. People aren't continuing to watch these films because they are "fresh".

If there wasn't the textural variety then the movies would be far less successful. 

[lorddemaxus]

4 minutes ago, Menor said:

If there wasn't the textural variety then the movies would be far less successful. 

That's true with literally every successful large franchise in history. James Bond wouldn't be so successful if they didn't mix it up a little bit every so often, same with something like Harry Potter. But like the MCU films, they pretty much stay confined in their respective genres. No one's calling, say On Her Majesty's Service, a romantic melodrama or something. Only one I can think of where they did change genres half-way through was the F&F movies.

Edited July 1, 2021 by lorddemaxus

[Menor the Destroyer]

31 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

That's true with literally every successful large franchise in history. James Bond wouldn't be so successful if they didn't mix it up a little bit every so often, same with something like Harry Potter. But like the MCU films, they pretty much stay confined in their respective genres. No one's calling, say On Her Majesty's Service, a romantic melodrama or something. Only one I can think of where they did change genres half-way through was the F&F movies.

Genre is not a singular thing. There is no reason why something couldn't be both a superhero film and a space opera/heist/whatever. I think you could argue that Bond and Harry Potter also switch genres to an extent but it's less overt than in the MCU. 

[lorddemaxus]

16 minutes ago, Menor said:

Genre is not a singular thing. There is no reason why something couldn't be both a superhero film and a space opera/heist/whatever. I think you could argue that Bond and Harry Potter also switch genres to an extent but it's less overt than in the MCU. 

Yeah well, I think with the way all these movies play out, they all feel pretty singular to me. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by lorddemaxus

[Legion Again]

The winter soldier and GotG are way more different than two members of more serialized single genre franchises like Potter or Bond.    
 

I mean, I know it seems so simple you don’t even think about it, but having different lead characters (vs always being an English wizard chosen one boy, or always a suave and competent English spy, etc) goes a long way toward differentiating entries and preventing fatigue/oversaturation/interest burnout.

[grey ghost]

26 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

There's some textural variety, but they still follow a pretty basic formula. All these films have way more in common with other superhero movies than whatever other genre they are appropriating. I really doubt Black Widow has much in common with Bond or Bourne. People aren't continuing to watch these films because they are "fresh".

They are fresh to a degree.

 

While they don't reinvent genres (a pretty high bar) they do expand the MCU in interesting ways making the eventually cross over all the more exciting.

 

Hollywood's track record with cinematic universes is really bad. Just because Marvel Studios makes it look easy doesn't mean it's easy. 

 

Most of these franchises burn out well before the tenth film.

 

Marvel will be at 30 by 2023. They know how to get people to come running back to theaters. No easy task for a franchise this far in.

 

 

[Legion Again]

4 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

Yeah well, I think with the way all these movies play out, they all feel pretty singular to me. 

That’s a you problem mate.    
 

Fine personal impression to have, but it doesn’t seem too relevant to the conversation we were having?

[lorddemaxus]

18 minutes ago, Lokis Legion said:

That’s a you problem mate.    
 

Fine personal impression to have, but it doesn’t seem too relevant to the conversation we were having?

All these movies being the same isn't just a me problem. I'm not sure why people are trying so hard to make these things more than what they are. It all goes back to when the internet was forcing Winter Solider to be a "70s political thriller". Just whatever lol.

[Darth Lehnsherr]

Marvel is comfort food for casual audiences. And that's actually a good compliment for them. At this point it's more akin to a long running sitcom where each episode/movie has a different premise and different reoccuring characters get the spotlight but the core of it is the same. 

 

I enjoy my comfort food very much.

[WittyUsername]

“Comfort food” is actually a pretty appropriate description for the MCU.

[Legion Again]

23 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

All these movies being the same isn't just a me problem.

They aren’t all the same, and the GA doesn’t treat them like all being the same, and so it’s not useful from a BO perspective to act like they’re all the same. That’s why it’s a you problem if you generalize from the personal feeling of “these all feel the same to me” to “these are all the same” 😛 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Lokis Legion

[BestPicturePlutoNash]

3 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

All these movies being the same isn't just a me problem. I'm not sure why people are trying so hard to make these things more than what they are. It all goes back to when the internet was forcing Winter Solider to be a "70s political thriller". Just whatever lol.

Dude, people have different opinions but Marvel is the largest franchise in the world so whatever you're rambling about is the minority opinion. You're not the definitive statement on this matter. I agree some declarations can be overkill but the reason for Marvel's success is how they can seamlessly smuggle other genres into the superhero format (Winter Soldier, Guardians, etc) for mass audiences. They're not "trying so hard to make these things more than what they are". Other than The Dark Knight, this was nearly unprecedented at the time in regards to superhero movies so it's natural they'd have this reaction

[grey ghost]

2 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

All these movies being the same isn't just a me problem. I'm not sure why people are trying so hard to make these things more than what they are. It all goes back to when the internet was forcing Winter Solider to be a "70s political thriller". Just whatever lol.

 

I don't think Winter Soldier is that toothless tbh.

 

But it's subjective.

 

For some people Hydra's fascist coup is just a plot device. I see reflections of January 6th whether it's at the capitol or the pentagon.

 

But whatever, lol. Your mind is made up.

 

 

 

[Legion Again]

Comfort food is a good analogy imo as well. Sure, at a high level in some sense you can say “all comfort food is comfort food, it’s the same.”  But like...  beef stew, burritos, dumplings, and apple pie are pretty different from each other in some big ways.

[grey ghost]

16 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

“Comfort food” is actually a pretty appropriate description for the MCU.

 

The best comfort food at the moment.

[Eric Duncan]

26 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

All these movies being the same isn't just a me problem. I'm not sure why people are trying so hard to make these things more than what they are. It all goes back to when the internet was forcing Winter Solider to be a "70s political thriller". Just whatever lol.

Because not everybody thinks exactly like you. If you think these movies are all the same, more power to you and I completely understand. But from what I can see, you're acting as if you are the one true all-knowing being when it comes to these movies and it's not the case. You may not see it, but it's obvious that a lot of people do see these MCU titles as distinct and fresh from one another in terms of genre or style and I sincerely doubt it's because people are trying to make these movies seem better than they are. Just let people like and feel whatever they want to like and feel, because it's obvious you won't change their minds and you're just fanning flames for no reason.

[RRA]

45 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

All these movies being the same isn't just a me problem. I'm not sure why people are trying so hard to make these things more than what they are. It all goes back to when the internet was forcing Winter Solider to be a "70s political thriller". Just whatever lol.

It’s less trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill and more us trying to speculate why this mega franchise keeps chugging along. I mean I had no use for say “Joker” but it made an absurd amount of money and articulating why it might’ve connected would be expected from the curious, no?

 

I would argue what others already said about them MCU is true though one detail is missing: while it’s established a rather sizeable fanbase who’ll show up for everything, it also explains why many others don’t and are choosy simply because the genres/gimmicks appeal to them more then others (Contrast the last few movies’ box office with say AM&TW’s intake.) 

[ThomasNicole]

I find the "oh but it's the same formula" argument so funny, especially in 2021.

 

The entire Hollywood system is based on a formula, pretty much all the big budget movies are, at core, the same. We watched the same thing repeatedly for decades, and we keep doing it because we like patterns, we like repetitions, is comforting.

 

But we also don't like the feeling of watching the same thing, that's why they're always trying new tricks and new ways to tell the same thing and we buy it.

 

That's why is so hard to get longevity in a franchise, because you have to give exactly what people are used to, but slighty different every time to keep the "fresh" feel. And Marvel are nailing this, it's where they win the audience, and yes they do it using pieces of different genres in their projects.

 

Guardians of the Galaxy isn't really a space opera, Winter Soldier isn't a spy movie, i'm sure Shang Chi won't be a kung fu movie. But there are pieces of that "genres" mixed in this movies and it's well done, this is enough to differenciate them for the GP even if the bases are the same.

 

Like i said earlier, when they start to fail at making these movies feel fresh, than they're in trouble, but it doesn't look like BW will be the first one.

[RRA]

53 minutes ago, BestPicturePlutoNash said:

Dude, people have different opinions but Marvel is the largest franchise in the world so whatever you're rambling about is the minority opinion. You're not the definitive statement on this matter. I agree some declarations can be overkill but the reason for Marvel's success is how they can seamlessly smuggle other genres into the superhero format (Winter Soldier, Guardians, etc) for mass audiences. They're not "trying so hard to make these things more than what they are". Other than The Dark Knight, this was nearly unprecedented at the time in regards to superhero movies so it's natural they'd have this reaction

Long term what I’m more curious about is how the kids weened on that stuff of this era* how that influence (if any) will be reflected in their own respective contributions to media/pop culture when they’re grown up. Seeing them now wrapped up/invested in the mythos reminds me as a kid similarly with Star Wars and obviously SW had a massive impact on Gen X/Millennials and their output. Or lesser extent, how Baby Boomers were impressed by 007 and wanted to express that inspiration (see Indiana Jones, Lupin III, etc.)

 

*=You’re already seeing that online now with young adults who’s childhood was Phase 1 (remember say an 8 year old who saw Iron Man in theaters is now an understudy in college beer pong.)