⊃∪∩⪽ | Legendary | October 22 2021 | Denis Villeneuve | Returns to IMAX on December 3

[NCsoft]

On 3/19/2019 at 12:14 AM, tonytr87 said:

 

For a while there in the late 00s and early 10s original scifi was booming. Avatar, District 9, Gravity, Inception, Interstellar, The Book of Eli, Eagle Eye, Super 8, even Edge of Tomorrow and Pacific Rim at least made it over 100 mil. Not sure what happened...were audiences more open to new shit during the Obama era? 

Well, for the latter part of the decade we did get Ex Machina, The Martian, Ready Player One, Arrival, Passengers and Annihilation, some of them did well, others not so much, but we've always had a few "original" sci-fi themed films here and there, though we're not seeing a new "Avatar" for obvious reasons.

[eridani]

While I am a fan of the books and even the adaptations, I don't see Dune making it big. BR2049 was supposed to benefit from its fan base and then... that mostly fizzled. It's like most of the people don't even know of first BR. I checked Google Trends for both brands, Blade Runner and Dune, prior to BR movie, and BR as a brand had 2-3 times more searches than Dune.  I just don't think there are enough people interested in the brand. The stellar cast MIGHT help to an extent, but that also makes the movie more expensive. It's a big sci fi saga, it's going to be expensive. And Villeneuve isn't really the most cost effective director. BR2049 cost 170 million dollars and while it looks nice, it doesn't really feel as it was that expensive, you don't see that money on the screen. Given all that, I fear Dune part one might cost close to 200 million. IF they were shooting back to back, maybe it would cost less.

 

But they're not even sure they'll make the sequel. Otherwise they'd greenlight both movies to be shot together. I'd say there are great risks financially there and we very well might get just the first half of the book adapted to big screen, when the second movie never materializes.

[terrestrial]

10 minutes ago, Barnack said:

District 9 with a 100m budget would still have made nice money, it made over 250m and around 110m in profit.

Many have a lower retention but much lower cost model too, no ?

O.K. I really do not know what's so difficult here

 

I disagree, with a $100m budget and an BO of $250m it wont have made money, at least not per its theatrical run (beside, its $210m and not $250m), it has no merchandise appeal to support its income, and based on that BO the TV rights,... wouldn't have added comparable to the big ones.....

HV: It did nearly $60m on DVD/Blu-ray in dom, and as far as I know it did nice, but not great in some of the OS countries, I have no general HV-OS data.

= with a $100m budget I see it only making money after its theatrical run.

Including the distributions costs, District 9 did not made $110m profit in its theatrical run.

It still will not have made a plus in some countries as in some countries the distribution costs look like to have been higher than the brutto BO there. But it will have made money in the sum (I didn't check if the distribution was sold, or the same overall distributor or not...). That was never in question.

GA reached.... means way higher numbers especially in OS than e.g. District 9 reached. Hence why I wrote, it reached Sci-Fi fans, but not GA.

 

We are in Dune's thread. Means all what said (should be) is related to its details.

Its probably getting bigger budget than especially District 9.

Blade Runer 2049 got $150m-$185m production budget acc Wikipedia (probably $150m after tax rebates).

With that kind of cast, and that kind of crew I think the budget will be similar, as it has similarities in some sets (lots and lots of sand) and other reasons. I can also imagine a way higher budget, depends...

As such it has to appeal to GA.

Who is GA?

The broad mass of the cinema goers, including families with children (I mean children of the age 6/8y+, younger means usually to watch children movies), including also women in some nice % and amount, younger & older audience, not  e.g. mostly male 15 to 25 old ones like some movies seem to reach.

 

Budget production plus budget for distribution. Even a cheaply produced movie, if to be released in a bigger way ww... add roughly $100m+ to it ($150m to $200m to e.g. an MCU movie's 'class' of budget).

 

So lets assume Dune gets a similar production budget as the actual CM got ~ 150m. The same amount went into distribution, of the ~ same amount as typical was given to it. Some say it got more some say it got the same.

CM needed $650m to break even (roughly) during its theatrical run as reported repeatedly.

 

To reach ww $650m a movie has to get at least some of the GA, and not only Sci-Fi fans. GA got way more open to Sci-Fi e.g. per GotG.

What might hinder to reach all of them:

Quote

The ambition is to do the Star Wars movie I never saw. In a way, it's Star Wars for adults.

Does not mean a movie like Dune's story will be a movie suited for families with 6y olds in it, or appeal to all see the more dark moods and moments in its story. Its not a funny story, it has tragic moments in it that some wont like or wont like their children to watch.

 

In Sci-Fi there are certain special versions, see post-apocalypse.... not all will appeal to GA.

Sci-Fi can be sad, dark,.... not all will appeal to GA.

Sci-Fi can be a mix, or even funny. The chances to appeal to GA are increased.

GotG 1 with the MCU awareness behind it and an exceptional marketing campaign, like free examples (11 minutes of the movie or so) at IMAX so GA can try out IMAX for free and so see what IMAX is about, huge amounts of awareness with redesigned Disneyland attractions that showed multiple scenes out of the movie beforehand (and a lot of visitors went through with their kids), exceptional advertising OS too (at least in some countries) got WW $773m, but definitively is no r-rated material or in the sum a dark mood movie.

With him as a director I think they aim for an older audience, he seems to like to do r-rated movies (Arrival was a bit younger including)

$47m budgeted Arrival is the movie that lets me hope he'll be able to work with a smaller budget too, but that one has far less a cast in amount and amount of big names....

[terrestrial]

1 hour ago, Barnack said:

Hard Sci-fi isn't easy, but what is? (outside sequel-franchise), not many thing, action is really not easy, comedy not easy, drama...

Sci-Fi,... usually cost more, but the GA is less willing to watch it in principle than e.g. a comedy rooted in today's world

[Elessar]

3 hours ago, terrestrial said:

Sci-Fi,... usually cost more, but the GA is less willing to watch it in principle than e.g. a comedy rooted in today's world

I find that so dumb. There's so much sci-fi shit, even space, in comic-book movies and that's okay. But as soon as your protagonists don't wear tights and a cape - don't care...

[terrestrial]

5 minutes ago, Elessar said:

I find that so dumb. There's so much sci-fi shit, even space, in comic-book movies and that's okay. But as soon as your protagonists don't wear tights and a cape - don't care...

Where did I say the GA reacts to capes only?

Its the mood in the movies, its the connect-ability, its the age of the audience taken into consideration.

Also how rewatch-able something is. If depressing in the end why watch it or watch it again?

Most of the GA has a stressful day-to-day live, maybe ill relatives or friends, a divorce or... looming, has problems with.... and goes to the cinema for a bit of distraction, to get some fun.

 

Make a small budget r-rated dark mood... on the other side of the scale. Or something in between.

If someone wants to get a big budget, he/she has to consider the potential audience. Its usual not his/her money at risk.

 

It has nothing to do with being 'dumb' when GA looks for other things than some cinema fans.

Who funnily disagree usually to the strongest about each and every movie also (see here at BOT more or less all genre movie's threads)

I think its not realistic to expect the GA come in throws for a niche version of a genre movie. And than get sniffed about that, speak down on them?

Not o.K. in my POV.

(I am aware what the most here think what I am into, but just in case you missed that, e.g. my favourite actor: the late Charles Laughton, love Kurosawa,... = I am not so much into today's movies as you might think, and I do not like all of the CBMs incl. not all MCUs)

 

 

[Valonqar]

was sick yesterday so I binge watched Dune mini series and Lynch movie. I'll put my observations in spoiler tags for those who didn't read the book or seen adaptations

 

Hoo-boy. lots of problems stemming from the book since the book was never written with big screen adaptation in mind (something that new books tend to do with devalues them, IMO, at least YA books are very much written with a movie deal as a priority). Despite valiant effort on few actors part, both adaptations feel stilted af and both miss the main point of the prophecy being false (and only exploited for self-preservation reasons). they play it straight as if the prophecy was true and that's not the point. what makes Dune different from usual hero journey + prophecized savior stories is the whole manipulation thing and that Paul knew he'd essentially become a tyrant. 

 

so anyway, in both adaptations, first hour or so is absolutely leaden-paced. tons and tons of exposition which works in the book but not in cinema. yet despite exposition, I can see that GA would still end up confused. 

 

jumping from Caladan to Giedi to Arakis to etc is jarring af and doesn't help understand what's going on due to overload of characters, many of whom don't pay off.  

 

since the book is more concerned with world building than characterization, that's a major strike against adaptations. Paul is a whiny bitch that gets downright irritating as his obsession with seeing the future grows. and no matter who they cast his schooling desert-hardened Fremen leaders in "new ways of living" is ridiculous. yea, sure they'd listen to this pretty boy no matter what super powers he has. get out. like, that was always iffy in the book but at least inner dialog helped understand why but in movie/mini it just looked silly.

 

Chani is awful in all medium (book, movie, mini) and the romance is hot garbage. she's literally just a primitive, fanatically in love with Paul long suffering love interest whom dickhead doesn't even treat well when his obsession reaches fever pitch. 

 

The Harkonnens are the worst kind of mustache twirling MUAHAHAHAHA villains. Baron, Raban, Feyd, they are laughable. At least Baron in the mini has a bit of charm, but Raban is hot garbage and Feyd is I don't know what to say. Speaking of, there's no pay off to reveal that Baron is Paul's grandfather as Paul and Baron never meet. It's just a throwaway reference that has a payoff in sequels but not in the first book. neither Baron nor Feyd are loons in the book (raban is) but adaptations didn't care for nuance in villainy.

 

Lady Jessica in the mini is done right. very warm personality which is how it should be but the problem with the character in the book and here is that she's generally powerless despite having actual super powers. she starts something out of love and then can't stop it when it starts taking a turn for the worse. Still the best character, the only one with an actual personality.

 

Stilgar was done dirty in both adaptations. he's great in the book, charming and tough but here they found most blah actors and the character was pushed in the background to make room for irritating whiny bitch of Muad' Dib. Speaking of that name, very clever of Herbert cause fast chant of Muad'dib (M'aa-deeeb) sounds like Mahdi (maa-dee) the Messiah. Clever. I never noticed when reading but it's prominent when hearing and it makes sense in the context of false prophecy. 

 

mini does surprisingly good job with expanding Irulan who isn't even a character in the book which makes the ending of the book a WTF in the movie/mini. You cna get away with some things in literature (also see Arwen in LOTR) but not on the screen. So making a change where she and Paul meet at the banquet worked but then they ruined with silliness such as Irualn seduces Feyd to uncover the conspiracy against House Atreides and then he challenges Paul cause she announced she'd marry Paul as the only way to assure the spice will flow. Yeah, GA's not gonna get this at all.

 

Paul and Feyd duel was anti-climactic. Paul's powers were so super by that point, there was no question who would win. Plus, there was no actual build-up to this cause Baron's plan to send Feyd as the savior never materialized. It was only talked about but came to nothing so there was no personal Paul vs Feyd conflict that needed climactic duel. 

 

Alia doesn't work in adaptations cause medium is not kind to last minute additions. Of course, she's necessary cause big tragic player in the sequels but she's just a mini deus ex machina in the first book and feels like one on the screen even worse. Not to mention some inconsistencies. Like, where where her weirding powers of combat when sardaukar and harkonnens massacred the Sietch including Paul's son? Couldn't she use her prowes with the krys knife in his and other's defense. But no, she got captured in order to anti-climatically kill Baron with her gom jabbar. 

 

Both adaptations skip Duncan's badass exit. Duke is dull in both and goes out like a bitch. he's dull in the book too and goes out like a bitch but at least there he has a benefit of inner monologue which is quite moving. here, he just goes out like a bitch.

 

both adaptations are deathly dull until meeting with Stilgar's men. desert scenes are somewhat livelier than what leads to the fall of the House Atreides.

 

Sandworm riding is silly so neither the book nor the adaptations make a big deal of it. 

 

Water of life drinking looks really silly on screen with psychedelic depiction of what Jessica and Paul experience during the spice agony. the orgies after are just WTF and hopefully not in the movie. yeah, GA's gonna scratch their heads here since lore is heavy and even exposition can't quite make it comprehensible without reading the source (which isn't an easy read in its own right).

 

CHOAM, anything to do with the spice trade, production, and Liet-Kynes are gonna suffocate Jason Momoa and Zendaya fans. Expect big fat F- from that audience. hell, they'll give it F without those elements cause like I said, leaden pacing while the story sets up all players (too many of them) and all intrigues (ditto) plus characters are either the broadest stroke stereotypes or howling villains.

 

so yeah, I don't think this will be WB's new LOTR. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elessar]

1 hour ago, terrestrial said:

Where did I say the GA reacts to capes only?

Its the mood in the movies, its the connect-ability, its the age of the audience taken into consideration.

Also how rewatch-able something is. If depressing in the end why watch it or watch it again?

Most of the GA has a stressful day-to-day live, maybe ill relatives or friends, a divorce or... looming, has problems with.... and goes to the cinema for a bit of distraction, to get some fun.

 

Make a small budget r-rated dark mood... on the other side of the scale. Or something in between.

If someone wants to get a big budget, he/she has to consider the potential audience. Its usual not his/her money at risk.

 

It has nothing to do with being 'dumb' when GA looks for other things than some cinema fans.

Who funnily disagree usually to the strongest about each and every movie also (see here at BOT more or less all genre movie's threads)

I think its not realistic to expect the GA come in throws for a niche version of a genre movie. And than get sniffed about that, speak down on them?

Not o.K. in my POV.

(I am aware what the most here think what I am into, but just in case you missed that, e.g. my favourite actor: the late Charles Laughton, love Kurosawa,... = I am not so much into today's movies as you might think, and I do not like all of the CBMs incl. not all MCUs)

 

 

I'm not saying you are not making some valid points. It's just frustrating that GA ignores some good content because "brand".

 

 

[terrestrial]

1 hour ago, Elessar said:

I'm not saying you are not making some valid points. It's just frustrating that GA ignores some good content because "brand".

I understand frustration. But am against name-calling of groups, countries,...

Brand: is company connected material, correct?

Why would GA ignore bcs of brand?
They ignore genres, they ignore certain moods of films, ... Which brand did they ignore?

[Elessar]

26 minutes ago, terrestrial said:

I understand frustration. But am against name-calling of groups, countries,...

Brand: is company connected material, correct?

Why would GA ignore bcs of brand?
They ignore genres, they ignore certain moods of films, ... Which brand did they ignore?

Brand as in IP. Think Star Wars, or Marvel, or DC...

[terrestrial]

11 minutes ago, Elessar said:

Brand as in IP. Think Star Wars, or Marvel, or DC...

That I understood, but not why you worded it that way:

which brand does the GA ignore?

see

Quote

It's just frustrating that GA ignores some good content because "brand".

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by terrestrial

[Elessar]

1 hour ago, terrestrial said:

That I understood, but not why you worded it that way:

which brand does the GA ignore?

see

 

Well, we all know if you are not a sequel to a popular brand you have it much tougher to break out and make money.

[terrestrial]

1 minute ago, Elessar said:

Well, we all know if you are not a sequel to a popular brand you have it much tougher to break out and make money.

  You meant it the other way around like I understodd your wording - I think

[CaptainJackSparrow]

We are right now in a nostalgic period of glorifying the past, which is why audiences are not receptive to sci fi movies lately, I have noticed this since 2016. Space in particular is “different”, not something you can look back toward. 

[ban1o]

People talk about how great the cast is but outside of people who are into movies I really don't think any of them have name recognizability. Like probably only Jason Momoa and maybe Zendaya. I don't think the cast will help the box office. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by ban1o

[shayhiri]

I see some reasonable voices here, but the rest are still in denial.

 

So I say to thee once again: CHECK YOURSELVES BEFORE YOU WRECK YOURSELVES!!

 

There is no way in fucking hell this movie project:

 

1. Costs less than 300m (talking only the first movie + some adds).

2. Makes more than 300m WW final.

 

This is a COLOSSAL burning of money. Kudos to Legendary for that, they have been my heroes for far too long - but they are not especially smart, and I wonder how they are still alive. Anyway - this one will kill them.

 

There is only ONE way to avert this disaster. Fire the Frenchie!

[filmlover]

3 hours ago, shayhiri said:

I see some reasonable voices here, but the rest are still in denial.

 

So I say to thee once again: CHECK YOURSELVES BEFORE YOU WRECK YOURSELVES!!

 

There is no way in fucking hell this movie project:

 

1. Costs less than 300m (talking only the first movie + some adds).

2. Makes more than 300m WW final.

 

This is a COLOSSAL burning of money. Kudos to Legendary for that, they have been my heroes for far too long - but they are not especially smart, and I wonder how they are still alive. Anyway - this one will kill them.

 

There is only ONE way to avert this disaster. Fire the Frenchie!

[JGAR4LIFE]

8 hours ago, shayhiri said:

This is a COLOSSAL burning of money. Kudos to Legendary for that, they have been my heroes for far too long - but they are not especially smart, and I wonder how they are still alive. Anyway - this one will kill them.

If they survived Warcraft, they’ll definitely survive this. They have Warner Bros. this time around, the movie will be well marketed to at least underperform at the box office .

[Valonqar]

I really dig Children of Dune adaptation and big plus is that they didn't try to be slavishly faithful. I think it's because Messiah and Children are considered (far) lesser books so they didn't have pressure to be super faithful like with the sacred cow Dune. The characters are now acting and talking like real people and it's quite emotional. I'm engrossed. Hopefully the movie will be more like this than Dune adaptations. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Valonqar

[MrGlass2]

11 hours ago, shayhiri said:

 

This is a COLOSSAL burning of money. Kudos to Legendary for that, they have been my heroes for far too long - but they are not especially smart, and I wonder how they are still alive. Anyway - this one will kill them.

Don't worry after Detective Pikachu they will have enough cash to fund decades of epic science fiction movies