Rambo: Last Blood | September 20 2019 | Rambo going to the old town road one last time

[The Futurist]

21 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Surely you know that there are lots of people that are incapable making this distinction?  Unless you’re a Nazi or a Russian these days,  you’re gonna piss people off.

Or a french during the Bush era.

That was fun.

[Captain Craig]

18 hours ago, Firepower said:

IGN gave it 4.5/10 and Den of Geek 2.5/5. And of course both complain about Trump, the movie being "offensive"/"culturally insensitive"/"irresponsible"/"dated in 2019" and that Mexican Cartel members are shown as bad people, lol. Predictable stupidity of woke press as it is.

What "woke" person thinks there are good, decent Cartel(drug running) individuals?

 

These PC movie reviewers are a joke. 

[DAJK]

2 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Surely you know that there are lots of people that are incapable making this distinction?  Unless you’re a Nazi or a Russian these days,  you’re gonna piss people off.

I mean… I'm not sure how to respond to this exactly. Yea, there's lots of people who will probably assume "oh because in this movie the bad guy was Mexican then all Mexicans are bad", and those people are either 4 years old, or idiots. And it shouldn't be up to Hollywood (imo) to sidestep and tip-toe around political issues so that the lowest denominator doesn't get confused.

 

That being said, there are probably a lot of people who'll say this movie is going to appeal to the lowest denominator anyways, but I don't think that's a fair assessment either. 

[Barnack]

1 hour ago, Captain Craig said:

What "woke" person thinks there are good, decent Cartel(drug running) individuals?

 

These PC movie reviewers are a joke. 

Think about how Villeneuve Sicario did it and how much of an issue people had with it.

[The Futurist]

3 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Think about how Villeneuve Sicario did it and how much of an issue people had with it.

Which is hilarious to think about.

In critics  minds, they see Sicario as a certain representation of reality, which is their own deluded obsession, and Rambo as action fantasy I guess.

 

Oh and going into the specifics about why critics had no problems with Sicario would open a can of worms pc people would have a hard time to deal with.

It involves Karl & his sect, it ALWAYS does nowadays.

[DAJK]

18 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Think about how Villeneuve Sicario did it and how much of an issue people had with it.

In a way I do agree with Futurist in that discussing why Sicario had "no" problems and Rambo does would open a can of worms, but maybe it does need to be opened. There are definitely differences to how Sicario and (presumably) Rambo is portraying people, but they are two very different movies, both of them designed for entertainment.

 

I think it should be the job of the audience to be able to make the distinction b/w fantasy and reality (which the problem is, many are unable to do), and it shouldn't be Hollywood's job to hand-hold. That being said, Hollywood also has to watch out for how it is portraying people on screen, and as long as it is not generalizing (or trying to intentionally generalize) than I don't see a problem with it. People are going to interpret it however they want, and I think that is more of an issue with the individual rather than the collective. 

[Barnack]

Just now, DAJK said:

would open a can of worms

Yes, my point was not that those critics would think that cartel are filled with nice people, but that what it involve to say no to them, to not get in a gang as a teen in some context is such a big deal that it can get a bit greyish sometime and the decision to not show a Mexican not in the cartel in a movie with them is still one to make.

 

Now should a movie care ? Should filmmaker always create fantasy world when they want uncomplicated villain ? That a different take.

 

Cartel can be so terrible (worst than some branch of ISIS sometime it seem) that I am not sure how much filmmakers should take white glove to treat the subject personally, when criminal organisation throw journalist from helicopter in cities to intimidate the population and the press, mass kill a bus of school children and so on.....

[dudalb]

22 hours ago, DAJK said:

I totally understand how certain depictions of different ethnic groups in film can become problematic very quickly. That being said, IGN's review seems ridiculous, as they hardly even mention the quality of the movie itself.

 

A person or group of people who happen to be Mexican can be portrayed as bad so long as the implication is not Mexicans are bad. Same with any ethnic, religious group or particular orientation. Every group of people on this planet has its bad apples, and its good apples. So as long as the movie is saying "this person who is Mexican is bad" rather than "this person is Mexican therefore they are bad" I do not personally have a problem with it. 

 

All in all this seems a little ridiculous, but to be fair I have not seen the movie so I don't know how these people were portrayed. 

There was a big fuss when "THe Godfather" came out because it  was about The Mafia,and did not try to hide that the Mafia was pretty much a 100% Italian (Sicilian to be exact) criminal orgnazation.. A number of people said it was out to smear all Italian Americans. That Mario Puzo who wrote the novel, and Francis Coppola who wrote and directed the film and a lot of the leading actors were all Italian Americans seemed to pass them by.

From what I have read in the reviews, almost all the charecters in Rambo Last Blood except for Rambo are Hispanic

Spoiler

including the girl whose kidnapping is the main plot point in the film.

and many are portrayed positively.

But I can understand from one part of the plot why this could cause a fuss with the whole border wall controversy.

[dudalb]

11 hours ago, Avatree said:

Mexico does NOT have a gang violence problem.

Either you are being sarcastic or you are living in a fantasy world.

Reminds me of the people who when the Godfather opened claimed there was no such thing as the Mafia.

Edited September 19, 2019 by dudalb

[Blaze Heatnix]

I've just watched it and I really enjoyed this one.  This is not exactly a Rambo movie, but a movie featuring Rambo and it works.

 

A review said this movie works like a Taken movie, with Rambo replacing Mills. It's exactly that. I think Stallone was great in this. His age is definitely showing, though. 

 

Be warned, this is not a movie for kids. Yeah, it's obvious but I've seen people bringing babies to see Deadpool and Logan. Theater was full and everyone enjoyed it. 

[ViewerAnon]

My biggest problem with LAST BLOOD is everything that's good in it feels like it could have been great with a little more attention. Moments that should be devastatingly emotional are serviceable instead. It leads to the whole thing feeling a bit half-baked.

Edited September 20, 2019 by ViewerAnon

[Firepower]

43 minutes ago, ViewerAnon said:

My biggest problem with LAST BLOOD is everything that's good in it feels like it could have been great with a little more attention. Moments that should be devastatingly emotional are serviceable instead. It leads to the whole thing feeling a bit half-baked.

That's exactly what happened with the pre-sales draft. Stallone took the great script and ruined it with his rewrites, killing character development, tone, action scenes, great (and even unique) details, scale, drama and even the ending. It was very dark, depressing and emotionally devastating drama inspired by Unforgiven with great action and surprisingly big attention to details. I'd say the script was too good for Rambo movie/Millenium action flick and maybe it shouldn't be a surprise that Sly ruined it, he did it with many projects in his career, including Cameron's Rambo 2, but Last Blood is one of the worst cases.  The final movie is just your average action flick, but with bad editing and that also feels cheap, like direct-to-vod cheap in some parts.

[Avatree]

15 hours ago, dudalb said:

Either you are being sarcastic or you are living in a fantasy world.

Reminds me of the people who when the Godfather opened claimed there was no such thing as the Mafia.

I saw that dumb film Ad Astra last night... but the moon isn't even real, so the film makes no sense??

[Captain Craig]

Saw it last night and the obvious thing to me is just how much these reviewers had to stretch for political commentary on this film. The irony is that it by far apolitical, which makes it a bit tonally out of synch with the other films. 

First Blood - 'Nam and societies cruelness to returning soldiers

FB, pt2 - 'Nam and POWs

Rambo III - Afgan/Russia conflict

Rambo - Burma, drawing attention to longest running Civil War on the planet

 

The Martinez brothers could very well have been Italian or Triads and the story wouldn't have changed. 

 

I found the characterization in the first act had meaning and gave resonance to the rest of the film. I was actually surprised with the toned down John Rambo who was "just keeping a lid on it". 

 

Hot Take: Taken meets Home Alone with a slight twist

[baerrtt]

At the end of the day presenting non white people as villains in fiction wouldn't even be that much of an issue if it weren't for the current reality of the rise of white nationalism in the States and elsewhere plus the fact that Stallone in particular HAS made movies before, and especially within the Rambo franchise, that cater to and play upon certain insidious beliefs held by bigots and certain kinds of right wingers.

 

The brutal truth of Mexican cartels is an irrelevant argument for this when what we have is yet another white saviour narrative that does nothing with the premise compared to what Sicario was able to do without any critics/ppl complaining 3 years ago.

[Firepower]

20 minutes ago, baerrtt said:

At the end of the day presenting non white people as villains in fiction wouldn't even be that much of an issue if it weren't for the current reality of the rise of white nationalism in the States and elsewhere plus the fact that Stallone in particular HAS made movies before, and especially within the Rambo franchise, that cater to and play upon certain insidious beliefs held by bigots and certain kinds of right wingers.

 

The brutal truth of Mexican cartels is an irrelevant argument for this when what we have is yet another white saviour narrative that does nothing with the premise compared to what Sicario was able to do without any critics/ppl complaining 3 years ago.

Do your realize that this is not twitter..., right? Your woke friends hang out there in case you didn't know

[DAJK]

2 hours ago, baerrtt said:

At the end of the day presenting non white people as villains in fiction wouldn't even be that much of an issue if it weren't for the current reality of the rise of white nationalism in the States and elsewhere plus the fact that Stallone in particular HAS made movies before, and especially within the Rambo franchise, that cater to and play upon certain insidious beliefs held by bigots and certain kinds of right wingers.

 

The brutal truth of Mexican cartels is an irrelevant argument for this when what we have is yet another white saviour narrative that does nothing with the premise compared to what Sicario was able to do without any critics/ppl complaining 3 years ago.

Don't listen to firepower in this instance. The great thing about BOT is that (most of us) like to have rational debates, so as long as everyone's respectful of others' opinions, we're all welcome

 

My response to your statement is questioning whether this really is a "white saviour" narrative. I haven't seen the movie (and I'm assuming you haven't? But I'm not sure) so I may be missing something. But John Rambo was an established character for decades beyond this movie, and when he was first established, his characterization had nothing to do with the fact that he was "white" (yes, he was "American" in the vague sense of the word but the fact that he's white was not a key essential element to his character). He's a human who happens to have white skin, and the series is not about the privilege he experiences from his ethnicity. Far from it.

 

So I don't think it's fair to politicize this film unless it is making key errors in judgement. A person who happens to have white skin, who has been an established character for decades, doing what he can to save another person (who I guess happens to not have white skin) is not what I believe to be a "white saviour" movie, since Rambo's ethnicity, or the ethnicity of the people he is tying to save, do not play key roles in the themes or plot of the film. 

 

And I might ask what "insidious beliefs" are being catered to by the Rambo franchise. I'm no stranger to understanding that certain aspects of the political right hold very dangerous and insulting beliefs (I am certainly not a right winger) but how would you suggest that Stallone's movies, or his filmography as a whole, is "catering" to these beliefs? 

[Macleod]

2 hours ago, baerrtt said:

At the end of the day presenting non white people as villains in fiction wouldn't even be that much of an issue if it weren't for the current reality of the rise of white nationalism in the States and elsewhere plus the fact that Stallone in particular HAS made movies before, and especially within the Rambo franchise, that cater to and play upon certain insidious beliefs held by bigots and certain kinds of right wingers.

 

The brutal truth of Mexican cartels is an irrelevant argument for this when what we have is yet another white saviour narrative that does nothing with the premise compared to what Sicario was able to do without any critics/ppl complaining 3 years ago.

The character/series was mis-appropriated by Reagan and never really escaped that perception with many people.  The imagery is there, sure, for those people to latch on to (and apparently still "educated" film critics), but it was all in service of a character who represented a rejection of those jingoistic attitudes, a man who had been used by the system and chose to reject it rather than play the game of complicity with hypocritical values.

 

Stallone has been adamant through the years (just listening to his audio commentary on the First Blood disc, for one) that he did not intend this meaning whatsoever...but people will take what they will from it.  It was a different time, the feelings generated by Vietnam and its neglected veterans were deeply affecting to America, and yet the universal problem of neglect of veterans in the U.S. remains.  

Edited September 20, 2019 by Macleod

[DAJK]

On the other side of the argument, I do understand the responsibility entertainment should have in doing its best to not mis-appropriate itself. I don't think this franchise has been a particularly bad case of this (the mis-appropriation has come from external sources), and if this film really does come across the way some people are describing, than I would say that is a bad oversight on the part of the filmmakers. That being said, this movie (unfortunately) is intended as a shoot-em-up actioner, with lots of blood and little brains (except for those being splattered across the screen of course). Its main concern isn't with the political implications of the ethnicity of its characters, which is something I think more people need to do (not politicize everything AS LONG AS the movie isn't misrepresenting a group of people in its portrayal). 

 

And finally, it's important to look at the context within which the franchise was created, and make sure we aren't applying present-day issues to a film that was created outside the context of those issues. Not that a movie "should be forgiven for including racist undertones when such undertones were not frowned upon by American society", but rather we should not mis-attribute the messages of a movie made in the 70s to represent issues that exist in 2019. While Last Blood is a movie from 2019, and should be viewed as such, it also exists within the context of a 40-year old franchise. 

[Kthuxi]

Rambo is one of my favourite movies but not only that, it was my first introduction to the action genre. The story was about a guy, who just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now I know there are lots of hollywood movies out there but that is all irrelevant to me. I just need the action. The biggest thing that made the first Rambo so awesome was its action. It looked like the action films in most other hollywood films, to put it bluntly. If you want a simple action film to watch without any story or any background, watch Rambo. If you want a story without a protagonist, watch some action movies. And if you want to see some crazy shit, watch a Rambo movie.