The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[DInky]

46 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

I think flops like The Marvels is looking to be always hurt a female director's career, even if it isn't her fault. It's not fair but it seems to be the way of Hollywood. That doesn't mean that her career is over of course. She's a talented director and will make other small dramas and she loves those types of films anyway.

 

Patty Jenkins was booted from all her future projects (WW3, Cleopatra, Rogue Squadron) after WW1984, which released during the height of the pandemic and never had a chance to recoup its budget. Granted, the movie was bad but male directors put out bad movies all the time and still have new projects lined up.

Edited November 5, 2023 by DInky

[M37]

8 hours ago, MovieMan89 said:

It has virtually no direct comp though for Xmas. All the other notable December tentpoles are targeting kids/families. I just think it has to make like 100 DOM/300 WW by default honestly. 

 

8 hours ago, JustLurking said:

There is literally another superhero film releasing on christmas?

Bumblebee made $127M Dom / ~$300M WW(-C) against Aquaman - that should be the approximate floor the Aqua2, and IMO it goes higher because there just isn’t much in way of competition 

[Boxofficerules]

3 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

Patty Jenkins was booted from all her future projects (WW3, Cleopatra, Rogue Squadron) after WW1984, which released during the height of the pandemic and never had a chance to recoup its budget. Granted, the movie was bad but male directors put out bad movies all the time and still have new projects lined up).

What about Josh Trank?

[DInky]

Just now, Boxofficerules said:

What about Josh Trank?

 

The problem with him wasn't just that he made a bad movie. He was apparently a nightmare to work with and he badmouthed the movie (and the studio) before the film even came out.

[Blaze Heatnix]

11 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

Granted, the movie was bad but male directors put out bad movies all the time and still have new projects lined up.

 

That's not a rule. Guy who directed Gigli, never directed anything again ( and he directed some good movies before Gigli )

[WittyUsername]

1 hour ago, Blaze Heatnix said:

 

That's not a rule. Guy who directed Gigli, never directed anything again ( and he directed some good movies before Gigli )

Just look at Andy Muschietti. He directed a massive superhero bomb that was released this past Summer, and he’s being signed on to direct a Batman movie for the DCU. A similar argument can be made about James Mangold and Matthew Vaughn, who still have quite a bit of work lined up. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by WittyUsername

[Dreadnought]

32 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

Just look at Andy Muschietti. He directed a massive superhero bomb that was released this past Summer, and he’s being signed on to direct a Batman movie for the DCU. A similar argument can be made about James Mangold and Matthew Vaughn, who still have quite a bit of work lined up. 

 

This is a weird argument. For one, there's no evidence that Muschietti is still on board for the Brave and the Bold. Mangold and Vaughan have a corpus of prior works that easily explains why they're not in director jail. 

 

I know it's verboten to suggest that female directors can be anything but talented and consummate professionals but are we forgetting the rumors of Jenkins' behavior with Warner Bros executives? Where there's smoke, there's often fire. She didn't lose Cleopatra and the rest on the back of WW84 flopping and to suggest otherwise is infantilizing nonsense. 

 

DaCosta will be fine and will go back to low budget drama and horror. She and her colleagues are not 'owed' blockbuster films any more than their male counterparts are.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Dreadnought

[marveldcfox]

10 hours ago, DInky said:

DaCosta is gonna get it even worse because it's not just a live-action Disney movie (a lot of those have flopped), it's the first MCU movie that is a total disaster at the box office.

Pretty much. Might become persona non grata. Back to Indie films. 

[Issac Newton]

China

 

Drop from "Captain Marvel" will be wild..

 

The Marvel PS = 5% of Captain Marvel PS at the same time...

[Zakiyyah6]

12 minutes ago, Dreadnought said:

 

This is a weird argument. For one, there's no evidence that Muschietti is still on board for the Brave and the Bold. Mangold and Vaughan have a corpus of prior works that easily explains why they're not in director jail. 

 

I know it's verboten to suggest that female directors can be anything but talented and consummate professionals but are we forgetting the rumors of Jenkins' behavior with Warner Bros executives? Where there's smoke, there's often fire. She didn't lose Cleopatra and the rest on the back of WW84 flopping and to suggest otherwise is infantilizing nonsense. 

 

DaCosta will be fine and will go back to low budget drama and horror. She and her colleagues are not 'owed' blockbuster films any more than their male counterparts are.

There are plenty of male directors who behave badly but continue to get blockbusters. Bryan Singer for one had meltdowns on set and didn't show up some days. He was a mess and the only reason that his career is over is because of the sexual abuse allegations. Thank goodness but if he were a woman his career would have been over after Superman Returns. Female directors aren't owed blockbuster movies but neither are white male directors and yet Hollywood treats them like they are. I agree with you about Andy, I don't believe he'll end up directing that Batman movie. 

[marveldcfox]

The marvels flopping so badly makes me happy tbh. The first one did not deserve even 500M WW let alone 1B WW. 

 

It is going to take a truly awesome Marvel flick to rejuvenate the brand. For now it's done. 

[Dreadnought]

16 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

There are plenty of male directors who behave badly but continue to get blockbusters. Bryan Singer for one had meltdowns on set and didn't show up some days. He was a mess and the only reason that his career is over is because of the sexual abuse allegations. Thank goodness but if he were a woman his career would have been over after Superman Returns. Female directors aren't owed blockbuster movies but neither are white male directors and yet Hollywood treats them like they are. I agree with you about Andy, I don't believe he'll end up directing that Batman movie. 

 

Any examples of this post Me Too? I don't think the Singer story which was from a more permissive time with even fewer prominent female directors for comparison tells us much. I'm genuinely interested to hear all the stories of non established male directors (aka not the Mangolds and Vaughans of the world) getting major, equivalent opportunities after a prominent flop. There is clearly more to the Jenkins story than her supporters are willing to critically examine or admit. 

 

Edited to say: not meant to come off as confrontational at all. I'm trying to build up my knowledge of the industry and have heard multiple people make the claim about male vs female directors so I just want to see if that actually holds up to scrutiny 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Dreadnought

[SpiderByte]

1 hour ago, Dreadnought said:

This is a weird argument. For one, there's no evidence that Muschietti is still on board for the Brave and the Bold.

....there's also no evidence that theyve decided to fire him in the past few months. What kind of argument is that?

[Sckathian]

1 hour ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

There are plenty of male directors who behave badly but continue to get blockbusters. Bryan Singer for one had meltdowns on set and didn't show up some days. He was a mess and the only reason that his career is over is because of the sexual abuse allegations. Thank goodness but if he were a woman his career would have been over after Superman Returns. Female directors aren't owed blockbuster movies but neither are white male directors and yet Hollywood treats them like they are. I agree with you about Andy, I don't believe he'll end up directing that Batman movie. 

Whedon is a good example. He was only dropped because Ultron was a fucking mess (the actual edit saves it but its a fucking mess in what he envisioned) but he then gets Justice League despite being a total creep. Thankfully people had enough of his nonsense at this point but you still had your lead lady getting a tit joke enforced upon her.

[JustLurking]

11 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

....there's also no evidence that theyve decided to fire him in the past few months. What kind of argument is that?

If you're going to argue that it would be unfair for Muschietti to stay on board for Batman despite flash bombing, first we should see if he actually is considering the announcement came prior to flash bombing.

[SpiderByte]

4 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

If you're going to argue that it would be unfair for Muschietti to stay on board for Batman despite flash bombing, first we should see if he actually is considering the announcement came prior to flash bombing.

It preceded Flashs release by one day. It's not like they were instantly blindsided by that point.

 

Muschietti got a project that ran through directors and writers for just shy of a decade over the line. That counts for something.

[WittyUsername]

2 hours ago, Dreadnought said:

 

This is a weird argument. For one, there's no evidence that Muschietti is still on board for the Brave and the Bold. Mangold and Vaughan have a corpus of prior works that easily explains why they're not in director jail. 

 

I know it's verboten to suggest that female directors can be anything but talented and consummate professionals but are we forgetting the rumors of Jenkins' behavior with Warner Bros executives? Where there's smoke, there's often fire. She didn't lose Cleopatra and the rest on the back of WW84 flopping and to suggest otherwise is infantilizing nonsense. 

 

DaCosta will be fine and will go back to low budget drama and horror. She and her colleagues are not 'owed' blockbuster films any more than their male counterparts are.

Didn’t James Gunn supposedly refute the idea that Patty Jenkins was unprofessional? It seems more likely that they dropped her because they’re doing a reboot. 
 

Also, nothing that either Matthew Vaughn or James Mangold have made has been as successful as the first Wonder Woman. 

[Hypercortical]

I think The Marvels will be great, and I don't think the concept is inherently bad. But if you do think the concept is bad and when it comes out you do think the film is bad, I'm not sure it's necessary to give Nia DaCosta a pass. From interviews, we know she didn't Write the first draft of the script, but we know she has a writing credit on the film, and from interviews (with The Russo Brothers, on Pizza Film School), it sounds like she didn't wait to get involved in the writing, (unlike for Candyman, where she only got involved late and felt she shouldn't be critical of Jordan Peele's work). I think if the writing is bad on 'The Marvels', it's still in large part her fault, and would make her look bad. 

But personally, idk why the Secret Invasion concept seems inherently better to y'all then what we've got. Traditionally Carol doesn't have all that big a role in Secret Invasion, so idk even what the plan would be. Not as clear cut as making Civil War 1 a captain america film.

[John Marston]

Feige actually compared the characters in this movie teaming up to The Avengers being on screen for the first time!

 

 

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a42969726/the-marvels-movie-avengers-comparison/#

 

 

 

maybe It’s time to admit all his ideas aren’t genius 

[SpiderByte]

21 minutes ago, Hypercortical said:

But personally, idk why the Secret Invasion concept seems inherently better to y'all then what we've got. Traditionally Carol doesn't have all that big a role in Secret Invasion, so idk even what the plan would be. Not as clear cut as making Civil War 1 a captain america film.

While i do think the show dropped the ball in the final episodes, I also think people vastly overblow the quality of the original event. Second only to Civil War 2 I think it's the most bloated Marvel event in recent years