The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[HummingLemon496]

4 minutes ago, Eric Bonaparte said:

Oh I believe Ant-Man 3 was the inflection point. DS2 and Thor 4 were divisive, but I think there was still enough of a “let’s see where this is going” among fans. Black Panther 2 was also well-received and performed well for a sequel to a movie that over performed expectations. Plus this was the big, epic debut of the new Thanos, so you have people invested enough to see him in action.

 

Then it came out and everybody realized, “okay Marvel’s bullshit now”. Majors’ domestic abuse allegations also hurt fan morale too imo. Like obviously Eternals and stuff ruined the excitement too, but Ant-Man 3 was the last straw. For Marvel, and the superhero genre as a whole.

lmao fr

 

Also, since you mention "superhero genre as a whole" do you think Aquaman 2 would be doing more if Ant-Man 3 alone was well received? (ok this is a little off topic but I'm just wondering)

Edited November 27, 2023 by HummingLemon496

[HummingLemon496]

Marvel is in their own 2013-2018 DCEU Snyder-Verse phase now. The Marvels = Josstice League, meaning Deadpool 3 is gonna make a billion like Aquaman 

Edited November 27, 2023 by HummingLemon496

[Eric Prime]

9 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

lmao fr

 

Also, since you mention "superhero genre as a whole" do you think Aquaman 2 would be doing more if Ant-Man 3 alone was well received? (ok this is a little off topic but I'm just wondering)

Yes. This is true for every superhero movie this year apart from Spider-Verse.

[Napoleon]

8 hours ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Marvel is in their own 2013-2018 DCEU Snyder-Verse phase now. The Marvels = Josstice League, meaning Deadpool 3 is gonna make a billion like Aquaman 

The DCEU didn't reach The Marvels-low during that era. Important to remember, these were the worldwide numbers for the DCEU at the time:

 

Man Of Steel (2013) - $668 million

Batman v Superman (2016) - $874 m

Suicide Squad (2016) - $746 m

Wonder Woman (2017) - $822 m

Justice League (2017) - $656 m

Aquaman (2018) - $1.14 billion

 

Average of over $800m per film with only JL not being profitable, all thanks to the stupid decision to reshoot it with Joss Whedon, which inflated the budget to $300m and ruined a movie that when later released was well received by critics and audiences.

[Belakor]

This year was a new low, both for DC and Marvel.  But specially low for Marvel, outside GoG 3 every movie / show flopped with the audience.  The Marvels BO shows how tired and out of touch the brand is. 

[Veclozy]

22 minutes ago, Belakor said:

This year was a new low, both for DC and Marvel.  But specially low for Marvel, outside GoG 3 every movie / show flopped with the audience.  The Marvels BO shows how tired and out of touch the brand is. 

Loki didn't flop, and DC released more flops this year than the MCU, all of their movies bombed.

[keysersoze123]

20 minutes ago, Veclozy said:

Loki didn't flop, and DC released more flops this year than the MCU, all of their movies bombed.

I am not getting into M vs D but how do we quantify success or failure of these streaming shows. 

 

 

Quote

What can we glean from these numbers? Well, season two’s consistent viewing figures indicate that a sizeable amount of people who were watching Loki’s sophomore effort were invested enough in the story to stick with the series once they were on board, which is good. But they also suggest that positive word-of-mouth on season two wasn’t encouraging a huge number of additional people to give it a shot during its six-week rollout. Given season two’s solid, yet somewhat disappointing performance compared to season one, it’s also clear that interest in Loki had waned somewhat.

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/disney-releases-surprising-loki-season-2-viewing-numbers/

[Veclozy]

7 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

I am not getting into M vs D but how do we quantify success or failure of these streaming shows. 

 

 

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/disney-releases-surprising-loki-season-2-viewing-numbers/

High viewership and growing audience from episode to episode which Loki S2 did. You seem to imply that not beating the biggest season of a show or breaking records is automatically a failure.

[Belakor]

20 minutes ago, Veclozy said:

High viewership and growing audience from episode to episode which Loki S2 did. You seem to imply that not beating the biggest season of a show or breaking records is automatically a failure.

We know it had less viewers than season one, so its not a win either, on cable tv that is a flop.

[Veclozy]

17 minutes ago, Belakor said:

We know it had less viewers than season one, so its not a win either, on cable tv that is a flop.

Most series decline season after season especially if the first season is huge, that's not a flop

[MovieMan89]

7 hours ago, Napoleon said:

The DCEU didn't reach The Marvels-low during that era. Important to remember, these were the worldwide numbers for the DCEU at the time:

 

Man Of Steel (2013) - $668 million

Batman v Superman (2016) - $874 m

Suicide Squad (2016) - $746 m

Wonder Woman (2017) - $822 m

Justice League (2017) - $656 m

Aquaman (2018) - $1.14 billion

 

Average of over $800m per film with only JL not being profitable, all thanks to the stupid decision to reshoot it with Joss Whedon, which inflated the budget to $300m and ruined a movie that when later released was well received by critics and audiences.

Yes but DCEU has reached even lower lows right now than MCU, so it’s all relevant when we compare them to say DCU has never been able to keep up really. 

[Napoleon]

25 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

Yes but DCEU has reached even lower lows right now than MCU, so it’s all relevant when we compare them to say DCU has never been able to keep up really. 

You're right, but the post I responded to was claiming the MCU is now in the same situation DC was during the Snyder-era, but that's not at all the case. What many don't remember is that the DCEU was subjected to a major reboot after Aquaman. WB made things confusing because they continued the Wonder Woman and Aquaman franchises, and brought back some Suicide Squad characters, so it gets a little blurry.

 

But when Walter Hamada took over DC and starting with Shazam in 2019, they shifted the strategy to standalone stories, the movies had no references to one another, there was no build up to larger storylines and crossovers, and the focus was on lesser known characters. The Snyderverse's two main heroes, Henry Cavill's Superman and Ben Affleck's Batman, were completely left aside, and those movies' storylines entirely ignored and even retconned.

 

They did try to change that late last year when WB realized fans had rejected the "new" DCEU, and started calling Cavill, Affleck, Momoa and Gadot to cameo in other movies in a desperate attempt to bring audiences back with a false sense of connection and shared universe again. Before the reboot starting in 2019, the DCEU was actually somewhat steady at the box office, with an average around $800m worldwide, with the big flop (Justice League) dropping to $656m, and the biggest hit at over $1 billion. The MCU has collapsed under the same leadership and doing what they always did, while we can easily point out what major changes made audiences lose interest in the DCEU.

[dudalb]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:00 AM, Veclozy said:

Loki didn't flop, and DC released more flops this year than the MCU, all of their movies bombed.

Yeagm DC record was  just as bad. I think somebody here has it in for Marvel.

[dudalb]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:12 PM, Napoleon said:

You're right, but the post I responded to was claiming the MCU is now in the same situation DC was during the Snyder-era, but that's not at all the case. What many don't remember is that the DCEU was subjected to a major reboot after Aquaman. WB made things confusing because they continued the Wonder Woman and Aquaman franchises, and brought back some Suicide Squad characters, so it gets a little blurry.

 

But when Walter Hamada took over DC and starting with Shazam in 2019, they shifted the strategy to standalone stories, the movies had no references to one another, there was no build up to larger storylines and crossovers, and the focus was on lesser known characters. The Snyderverse's two main heroes, Henry Cavill's Superman and Ben Affleck's Batman, were completely left aside, and those movies' storylines entirely ignored and even retconned.

 

They did try to change that late last year when WB realized fans had rejected the "new" DCEU, and started calling Cavill, Affleck, Momoa and Gadot to cameo in other movies in a desperate attempt to bring audiences back with a false sense of connection and shared universe again. Before the reboot starting in 2019, the DCEU was actually somewhat steady at the box office, with an average around $800m worldwide, with the big flop (Justice League) dropping to $656m, and the biggest hit at over $1 billion. The MCU has collapsed under the same leadership and doing what they always did, while we can easily point out what major changes made audiences lose interest in the DCEU.

Don't tell me, put Snyder back in charge and everything will be great..................

The SNyder fanboys will never, ever admit audiences did not like, overall, the Snyderverse.

Edited November 29, 2023 by dudalb

[Veclozy]

21 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Yeagm DC record was  just as bad. I think somebody here has it in for Marvel.

It's far worse, DC lost way more money this year than the MCU, they have 3, soon to be 4 big flops with no successful movies like GOTG3.

[dudalb]

14 minutes ago, Veclozy said:

It's far worse, DC lost way more money this year than the MCU, they have 3, soon to be 4 big flops with no successful movies like GOTG3.

And Aqua 2 is looking more and more like a underperformer by the day, I am betting Warners now thinks that Wonka will be it's big H9liday cash cow.

At least of the people posting in this thread has a long history of hating Marvel.  Which is his right, but when that hate causes you to ignore facts it is not a good thing.

[Issac Newton]

 

 

[Zak]

I don't see how having more uncreative executives on set would have saved The Marvels at the box office. Make better movies in the lead up to the film and stop acting like you can Thor Ragnarok everything. Not every MCU franchise should be turned into a comedy just because people adored Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 1. What about Winter Soldier? Why didn't they look into replicating what that film did for one of their characters? 

[Ryan Reynolds]

Iger is an idiot no wonder he thought he could make a US presidential run a few years ago, he would fit right in

[HummingLemon496]

This should've been like Winter Soldier for Captain Marvel