Avatar: The Way of Water (2022)

[Eric the Fall Guy]

I see you. Sorry for not getting this up earlier 😕

[WrathOfHan]

[titanic2187]

I think the kids steal the entire show, Spider , Kiri and Lo'ak make the most impactful impression throughout the movie.  

[glassfairy]

Went to see this today only because I was Christmas shopping in my nearest mall which happens to have a movie theatre and when I finished my shopping I said why not and bought a ticket. For full disclosure I thought the first Avatar was bang average. This one was hard to rate. The last quarter/third really saves this movie. That and of course the visuals which were the only good thing about this movie until the end. Thankfully film is a visual medium so just being pretty to look at can carry you far, far enough that cringe worthy dialogue and teen plots that would have been trite in a 2000s CW drama can be mostly forgiven.

 

B+

Edited December 16, 2022 by glassfairy

[Stewart]

Wow, a lot to unpack here. 

 

Went to the first evening showing of it today (OD in UK), at a sold out IMAX 3D showing with ~450 people. Weirdly not much for audience to react to, I distinctly remember one moment where everybody laughed, but outside of that nothing which the whole audience reacted to. 

 

Preface to this, I have watched the original Avatar maybe 10-12 times since its release. Three times in theaters, once when it released, once on a random re-release about 5 years ago and then the official remaster in September. It is probably one of my favourite movies ever.

 

First, let's talk the good stuff:

• The water! Almost everything related to the water scenes was pure beauty, it felt like I was transcended to another world.
• The kids, all the children had epic moments and really shined well.
• The single "fuck" allowed in PG13 movies was perfectly placed
• Spider was a very interesting and complex character
• I "bought" Quaritch's backup plan and return, it felt suitable for the character
• The submersion of the water ship was very epic and sometimes reminiscent of Titanic (intentionally).
• Kiri was a very interesting character to follow, especially her connection to Eywa.
• Time flew by, never felt long or slow.

Now... the problems I had:

• The first part about the family went by too quick and felt very rushed. I didn't connect with the kids to begin with because it was rushed in their introduction.
• The first act felt unnatural to me, because the Na'vi were too human. Too focused on technology, and too much war scenes, it felt off-tone. 
• A few scenes clearly hadn't finished rendering, notably a few seconds here and there when the whole sea clan went to notify their whales of the danger. It was like the water dripping from the characters wasn't lit properly, quite offputting in that short time frame.
• Kiri's voice was straight up wrong. It felt like an adult, I could not imagine her being a child.
• The jumping between the kids learning the way of the sea people and Spider's time with Quaritch felt very abrupt and offputting, like it suddenly just cuts to the other scenes.

And finally, the parts I felt were vacant from the film, which made me really enjoy Avatar 1:

• Eywa - yes she was here a bit, but she had a much more prominent role in A1, and here she just never really made much of an appearance.
• Similar to the above, but the connection between all living things was not emphasised much here. It was constantly prioritised by Grace and the Na'vi in A1, but here it's like an after thought. Little things like the wisps didn't seem to be a big deal here, and when animals were killed they were not given "prayers" like Neytiri taught Jake to do in A1.
• The Sully's never really had a moment of complete distraught. In A1, there was a very very notable moment (which still makes me goosebump and tear up to this day), when it feels like all hope is lost, everybody is dying, there's no chance in hell they can win. And then at the very last moment there's a switch when Eywa starts acting, and Neytiri screams "Eywa has heard you!!". This was a pivotal moment of joy in A1 which was never replicated in A2 because they never really got to a point where it was needed.
• "Community moments", in A1 we had several scenes (typically around the Tree of Souls) where all of The People would gather to pray and commune to Eywa. In A2 this was lacking that sense of community. Outside of the main Na'vi, you never really saw or interacted with anybody else.
• Lack of "good humans". In A1 you had a band of rebels which were very very likeable. Here, you had Spider (who grew up with Na'vi anyway) and the leftover good ones from A1. There was no "trudy" or anybdoy like that for people to root for. (Who doesn't love a good rebellion?)

Overall, a very pretty and beautiful film, with many good moments and characters, but lacking some key feelings and emotions from Avatar 1. I would give it a 7.5 out of 10. (Avatar 1 is a 9 / 10 for me)

[Nostalgia]

It's a poor show in each and every aspect except for Visuals.

 

Bad Story - Colonel returning in avatar form to Jake Sully running away to colonel trying to get Sully head by burning villages or capturing his children.... Seriously ? 

 

Poor Screenplay - Most of first two acts especially second act is filled with one point less scene after another , the only thing good about third act is something happens in it compared to first two acts , the screenplay is so poor that film can be easily edited to 1.30 hours.

 

Characters - Too many characters and none gets registered . Lead characters are reduced to supporting characters . 

Everything related to Jake is so uncharacteristic to what we have seen from him in first part , his character is extremely selfish to protect his family and mostly he is anything but Heroic , what a shame . Most of the movie runtime is filled with 5 children characters and none is well written , mostly half baked . Water clan characters are so badly (they just disappear in final action scene ... are they too selfish & decide it's not their fight ?)  written unlike Navi clan characters in part 1. 

 

Action Part - The action part is less for it's enormous run time and it's okay , neither good nor bad . 

 

Music - The background score of tree falling down in Avatar 1 striked so hard with me when I watched first time in the theatre , It almost instantly gets recalled in my head when ever I remember Avatar1 . The background score of Avatar 2 is absolutely blank , it just passed over my head .

 

Dialogue - Half of dialogues is filled with family and Bro .

 

VFX / Animation - Absolutely Gorgeous and best part of the film .

 

Direction - As if almost entire focus was getting it visually right and nothing else matters 

 

This film doesn't have anything to remember not even a single scene or character or dialogue or score or shot or action or set piece , literally nothing .

 

This film is extremely bad in terms of story , screenplay & characters , probably first time from Cameron (I didn't watch piranha movie) and am pretty sure this is going to continue if he keeps making only Avatar sequels.

This is clearly pretty forced sequel where Writer/Director doesn't atleast have a decent idea what to make , but desperately wanted to make it and made it . This happens with lot of sequels but Cameron is taking it to whole new level by getting ready to make over 5 + forced sequels . Spider saving colonel Avatar at the end of film is clear indication that Avatar 3 is going to be another pointless , soulless sequel . 

 

Avatar1 7.5/10

Avatar2 3/10

 

Also really surprised that the drop in Rotten Tomatoes rating and average ratings compared to part 1 is very minimal. There is enormous difference in quality 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stuart360]

Just saw the film a second time. I have a 3D showing booked for Monday, but my Dad called me earlier and asked me if i wanted to go see the film with his as a friend had reccomended it to him (i reccomeneded it to him as well but he never listens to me ha).

 

Anyway i want to revise a few things i said in my earlier review.

 

I said in that review how i could see casual movie fans watching this once and be done with it in terms of repeat viewings, due to the film feeling like a middle film in a longer story.

Well after seing the film a second time i feel i could be wrong.

The film felt so much better second time, and that final hour is amazing. Combine that final hour with the mesmerizing nature doc style scenes with the kids and animals underwater, and i feel even casual movie fans may see this more than once.

 

Spoiler

I also feel i was being a bit harsh when i said the final battle is short. The part with the sea clan and Jake attacking the ships and boats, yes thats only about 10mins, but combine the startof the battle with the kids being chased underater by the subs, the main battle with the boats and humans, and the last major part of the battle with Jake and Quarritch fight and the boat sinking with characters on board, well put it all together and i feel its actually quite an bit longer than the final battle in the first film.

 

I feel my head must of been elsewhere on my first viewing becauae i missed a lot of stuff for some reason. Its pretty funny actually lol.

 

I gave the film a 9.2/10 frist time, i'm changing to 9.4/10.

 

2.5bil here we come!😇

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by stuart360

[NCsoft]

5 hours ago, stuart360 said:

Just saw the film a second time. I have a 3D showing booked for Monday, but my Dad called me earlier and asked me if i wanted to go see the film with his as a friend had reccomended it to him (i reccomeneded it to him as well but he never listens to me ha).

 

Anyway i want to revise a few things i said in my earlier review.

 

I said in that review how i could see casual movie fans watching this once and be done with it in terms of repeat viewings, due to the film feeling like a middle film in a longer story.

Well after seing the film a second time i feel i could be wrong.

The film felt so much better second time, and that final hour is amazing. Combine that final hour with the mesmerizing nature doc style scenes with the kids and animals underwater, and i feel even casual movie fans may see this more than once.

 

  Hide contents

I also feel i was being a bit harsh when i said the final battle is short. The part with the sea clan and Jake attacking the ships and boats, yes thats only about 10mins, but combine the startof the battle with the kids being chased underater by the subs, the main battle with the boats and humans, and the last major part of the battle with Jake and Quarritch fight and the boat sinking with characters on board, well put it all together and i feel its actually quite an bit longer than the final battle in the first film.

 

I feel my head must of been elsewhere on my first viewing becauae i missed a lot of stuff for some reason. Its pretty funny actually lol.

 

I gave the film a 9.2/10 frist time, i'm changing to 9.4/10.

 

2.5bil here we come!😇

 

 

 

Really happy to hear that you enjoyed it even more the second time, I'm planning to go for my second viewing in the next few days but not sure when yet.

I'm invested in the 2.5B number because I participated in this avatar bet over at resetera which has the threshold of $2.5B, which to be honest, a week ago I thought it would have no problem reaching at all!

Right now, I'm feeling slightly more optimistic about $2B than yesterday, we'll see how it legs out. I might be dreaming bigger when evidence of good legs start to show. 

 

Oops, I completely forgot this is the review thread I thought it's the Avatar thread

Anyway just adding in my score then:

It is a 8.5/10 (A-) for me.

Visually stunning, part of it felt like an out of body experience, the under water scenery was so beautiful that even as I realized that it was a little indulgent, I was still perfectly fine with it dragging on. But narratively it is messier than I imagined and I wished it was just a bit more neatly executed; I wasn't the biggest fan of a certain character but I loved all of the Sully kids and I thought they were all distinct and memorable. I loved the last hour of non-stop action, thought the final scene with the ship could have been shorter.

The ending scene brought me to tears and it was very emotionally effective.

I'm invested in the sequels and immediately want to do a second viewing, might like it even better the second time.

Edited December 18, 2022 by NCsoft

[filmlover]

Unquestionably the most visually stunning movie ever made, and manages to evoke the same sense of wonder and beauty as the original did when it was released in '09. Overall I think this might be a step down from the first, as the earlier movie's "stranger in a new setting" plot connected better than the "protecting the family" one here, but it expands the world of Pandora well, manages to be pretty engaging throughout its very long 192 minute runtime without many moments that drag, and the 3D is absolutely breathtaking (all those diving/underwater sequences: WOAH!).

 

But most importantly, this is evidence that there is arguably no filmmaker as capable of putting together a stellar action sequence or a breathtakingly pretty shot as James Cameron is. What he accomplishes here manages to surpass his efforts on the first movie, which is no easy achievement. He makes you feel like you are very much inside the movie experiencing this universe instead of simply marveling at beautiful images. It's a truly BIG SCREEN experience.

 

While this isn't an actor's movie, there are still solid performances across the board from both those returning and those new. Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana are once again perfect leads for these movies even though Jake and Netyiri don't get nearly as much development here as they did in the previous one due to Cameron's choice to give their kids the spotlight. Stephen Lang makes Quartich a truly iconic villain: it's no easy feat for an actor to somehow humanize a genocidal madman who will do whatever it takes to accomplish his goals. Kate Winslet (giving us a Titanic reunion with Cameron) and Cliff Curtis fit perfectly within this universe. I actually thought all of the young performers did well here (the Spider character could've easily been a nuisance but Jack Champion makes the only notable "human" character in the movie more engaging than otherwise might've been the case), although I did have to chuckle at and applaud the audacity of Cameron for bringing Sigourney Weaver back to have the 73-year-old play a teenager (eat your heart out, Ben Platt). 

 

These movies will never be revered for their writing, but when the filmmaking is just on this level of perfect, who is really going to complain? I absolutely enjoyed my second trip to Pandora 13 years after my first, and I look forward to revisiting this universe again two Christmases from now when the third movie arrives.

 

A-

[titanic2187]

1 hour ago, filmlover said:

While this isn't an actor's movie, there are still solid performances across the board from both those returning and those new. Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana are once again perfect leads for these movies even though Jake and Netyiri don't get nearly as much development here as they did in the previous one due to Cameron's choice to give their kids the spotlight. 

 

A-

I think the moment when Neytiri turns semi-villian during final battle was in particular a stand out, not only it gives character a dimension, the VFX manage to capture that facial expression so accurately and real to paint near-out-of-control raged mother.  

[hasanahmad]

It’s a tech demo for what cinematic visuals can achieve without a story or characters to care about unlike avatar 1 .
 

This a movie that was not needed and was needed at the same time . Not needed because it doesn’t exist to tell a story . It was needed because it exists to tell the future of cgi of movies.

 

As a movie goer I would feel better if James Cameron focused on movies where characters drive the story more than the tech . Avatar 1 was tech driven but it had characters which shined like Michelle Rodriguez.

 

Terminator 1/2 had characters which shined . Titanic was a technical achievement but people remember the characters . True lies was all about characters. The abyss was all about characters .

 

With avatar 1 Jc achieved the perfect balance , here he had abandoned the story , the characters , the music to showcase the visuals . Sure the characters return from first film but they only exist for us to wow at the visuals, not for the visuals to be a backdrop to their essence

 

this Movie will not flop but it will hopefully fail to make enough money to convince James Cameron to not make a 4th because the third is a given and I don’t say this lightly I hope it fails because I want James Cameron to give us characters which we emotionally attach ourselves to while his technical feats serve as a backdrop. Also don’t get me started on music , James Cameron’s previous movies were known for the themes , now it’s a failed retread 

 

4/10

Edited December 19, 2022 by hasanahmad

[Godzilla]

This movie was an experience. Yes, the dialogue is clunky, and some storylines are cliched but the whole experience of it washes all that away from me. I was in complete awe and wonder at what I was watching. I actually teared up by the incredible beauty, took my breath away. I thought the whole family angle was quite moving at times. I really liked this film.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Godzilla

[Daxtreme]

It's a good and audacious movie that's also too long and over-indulges in itself a bit too much.

 

The Great — The visuals are expectedly utterly awesome.

 

The Good — James Cameron is one of very few American filmmakers who understand how to put together an exciting action sequence. The action climax in this movie was delightful. Just clean, well shot action that you never lose track of. Wonderful editing.

 

The Bad — Too long. I do admire the fact that James Cameron seems to have been able to put in any scene he wanted in this movie, including completely pointless ones, and while those scenes contribute to the overall feel and aesthetics of the movie, it still felt overlong to me. A lot could have been cut, especially since the story is stretched… quite thin.

 

The Ugly — The recycled soundtrack. It felt very sterile to me. Jamer Horner was sorely missed.

 

Still, I'll take this kind of blockbuster over many other uninspired regurgitated fare coming out of Hollywood.

 

★★★½

[Webslinger]

It’s high praise that even after seeing all 192 minutes of it, I’m still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Avatar: The Way of Water exists. After 13 years and a big blockbuster landscape that has shifted so radically in that interim, I really did not know what to expect out of James Cameron returning to a story that felt like it was already concluded rather cleanly and clearly in the original film. And after that film raised the bar on visual effects work so high that no movie since feels like it has been anywhere near as big of a breakthrough, I was also left wondering what Cameron and company could possibly do that would feel as impactful as what they accomplished 13 years ago. Yet, somehow, The Way of Water is a singular viewing experience that leaps well ahead of its predecessor in ambition and technological innovation. Though I don’t think it’s quite as effective as the first film in its storytelling and character development (which were always better than their much-dumped-upon reputation would suggest), it takes big swings in opening up the world of Pandora and its inhabitants in such grand fashion that – if anything – a running time in excess of three hours feels short for everything it’s trying to explore. Visually, it is an overwhelming experience – the underwater sequences in particular are awe-inspiring and feel like a gigantic leap forward in terms of what a film can do. (And that’s just in regular 3D – I’m definitely interested in seeking out a high frame rate presentation to see what Cameron accomplishes in that format.) The action sequences, in characteristic Cameron fashion, are also stunning in their construction and execution. Like the first Avatar, it also boasts sneakily strong performances. It’s true that lead Sam Worthington is mostly still a blank slate, but Sigourney Weaver and Stephen Lang are once again terrific in their roles. Weaver does inspired, emotionally resonant work as the teenage daughter of her character from the prior film, while Lang once again commits fully to playing the villainous Quaritch, but this time with a vaguely haunted edge added to it. The performances from the young actors are convincing and succeed in selling many of the film’s biggest emotional beats. Though it doesn’t register as forcefully as the original did with me – a tall order for any sequel given how much I vibed with the original’s “protagonist in an exciting new world” during my freshman year of college – Avatar: The Way of Water is a stunning cinematic achievement whose immense strengths far outweigh any of its limitations. It’s a grand cinematic experience that I can’t wait to see again.

 

A-

[Morieris]

I always love the idea of found family and I really love it here. The story is one we've mostly seen, but I appreciate the fresh touches.

 

Spoiler

And knowing that Lang's character will probably return.

 

Over the past 12 years, Avatar kind of sunk into the public -- and my -- consciousness as something of a laugh, but Cameron came back to shut us up.

[solaris]

I just couldn't really connect with this at all. Found myself zoning out A LOT. It's far, FAR too long, and has none of the efficiency and economy of storytelling that it needs to properly propel it along.

 

Kiri was a great character, and perhaps the only one that I felt any emotional connection to. The other kids all felt generic - I really, genuinely couldn't distinguish between the two brothers at all. 

 

James Cameron is responsible for making my absolute all time favourite film (Aliens). The *only* time I felt any kind of excitement to remind me that we're talking about the same filmmaker was the much-vaunted final act (which even here felt overlong). The severed arm/whale moment, and pretty much all of the stuff on the sinking boat, were great.

 

A gripe - every single action scene seems to have some kind of crash zoom shot at the beginning. It all feels a bit (unnecessarily) Zack Snyder-y.

 

Small praise - the whale creatures were cool.

 

I really, really hope that after Avatar 3 JC decides to turn his attention to something else (stay on as producer and let someone else direct the rest). He's too talented a filmmaker to be bogged down making this elaborate nonsense for the rest of his career. I know my wish will be futile.

[IndustriousAngel]

A-, 8/10 ...

spectacular visuals, very simple plot which is definitely not filling the running time. I'd prefer this movie to be at least 30min shorter (or spend those 30min developing the kid's characters) but overall, an enjoyable cinematic experience. Despite CPU time getting cheaper all the time, this is way ahead of other CGI-heavy movies.

[Flip]

6/10.

James Cameron has perfected the nature of the four quadrant blockbuster that appeals to all; it's a shame he decides to apply his visionary talents only to the world and visuals of Pandora. So disappointing that an auteur who is genuinely revolutionary in visual effects is so standard with his plotting.

 

Loved whenever the movie focused on Lo'ak, Payakan, and Tsireya and Kiri (except for the deus ex machina ending and the jarring nature of a 70 year old voicing a young child). The rest... 🙃.

 

Hoping that this was all set up for Lo'ak as the main character of Avatar 3. 🤞

 

Would definitely watch a nature documentary of Payakan. (explains why those scenes are my favorite in the whole movie)

 

The character of Spider is by far the worse of all, and Cameron wastes a massive chance by not choosing to portray him as an outcast of the Omaticaya hated due to his 100% demon blood, which could be juxtaposed with how both Lo'ak and Payakan feel outcasted. If Spider was neglected by both the Sullys and the Navi, only to be "saved" and nurtured by Quaritch, I really feel like Cameron could've chosen to display more effectively the indecision he faces between his loyalty to his adoptive and blood family. The relationship Spider also has with Quaritch seems to change on a whim, depending on whatever scene needs to progress the plot. As for Quaritch, I think he's more emotive here than 13 years ago, but he plays a much more delightfully devious character in the original that I was more entranced by. Weirdly I was hooked by the (Australian I think?) whale hunter guy, his exuberant glee in doing his job and general jovial attitude caught my attention for some reason. As for Jake and Neytiri (especially the latter), they essentially just are there until the final action set-piece and I'm a little bit dissapointed that Cameron decided to abandon their story to focus on their children. I do like how Jake is portrayed, with his extensive military background and the rough enviornment of Pandora, it makes sense that he would be an overly strict and stern parental figure, but he basically stays stagnant for the whole movie. All the other characters (Ronal, etc.) are bland enough to the point where I can't psyche myself up to have any opinion about them that isn't generally apathetic.

 

Although the plot of the movie is very barebones, I think it actually works well: it sets up a simple dynamic and I was pleasantly surprised that the whole whale subplot had tangible relevance to the final act and wasn't just a fun deviation from the story that gave Cameron the opportunity to ego trip. 

 

Final thoughts: Even though I didn't love it, I'm much more invested in whatever comes next then I was after watching the first one, and if the rumors are true this world will only get crazier and maybe better with time. 

[Ozymandias]

So I just re-watched this on Disney+ and it took me 2 days so yeah my opinion hasn't really changed.  It re-affirms my belief that this is James Cameron's first real misfire, this is a shockingly sloppy movie from someone like him.  It is so long and so dull with a very clunky and meandering screenplay.   We can bitch about Avatar 1's stock characters / recycled story/cliches all day until we're blue in the face, but at least that movie was paced pretty well with little to no fat on it.   Here, so much of the movie just feels like random scenes happening playing in a sequence without any real forward narrative momentum.  A lot of the dialogue is really bad(bro, cuz, etc) and even the action in this underwhelming which you couldn't say for that big battle in the first movie.

 

Also, there is some real dumb shit in this movie stood out a lot more this time.  Stephen Lang's general just so happened to have a fucking newborn baby on Pandora in the last movie?  Also, did they just completely forget about the all important 'unobtainium' this time around or do the earthlings now only care about that fountain of youth whale juice now?  And Sygourney Weaver's Avatar gave a virgin birth to a new Sygourney Weaver Navi that has godlike powers over nature?  Really, this is what we're doing now?

 

Lastly, wtf is the Way of Water?

 

The only thing of note here is some of the visual sequences.

 

3/10

[Bob Train]

I found it much better than Avatar 1 personally. The kid characters are much more engaging than anyone in the first one. It has lots of heart and emotion, whereas the first one didn't affect me emotionally at all. It drags a bit, but the world is so mesmerizing, so the runtime is only felt a small amount. While the plot is simple like all James Cameron movies, I found it much more engaging than the first Avatar, which was just a redux of Pocahontas/DWW, whereas while this is obviously a bit derivative and cliched, it still doesn't feel like I'm watching another movie just with blue people VFX like the first did. Not that it is really doing anything original story-wise, but it is drawing inspiration from other plot/character arechetypes.The VFX are amazing as expected, and I am looking forward to seeing how Cameron will try to top himself for Avatar 3.

 

8/10