WGA/SAGAFTRA Strike Discussion Thread | SAG Ratifies Contract

[dudalb]

41 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

I think you are going to be surprised. Its matter of time before they are indistinguishable from human written ones. They are improving at a scary rate now. You should read this.

Sorry, I refuse to beleive, that a alogthrotim can give us a Tolstoy, a Shakespeare, or a Dickens. They can give us hackwork at best.

[dudalb]

Longest WGA strike was in 1988...153 days.

It  badly hurt Television. The making of documenatary on the Blu Ray of :Star Trek:Nexe Generation season 2 goes into detail on how badly the strike hurt the show.

[lorddemaxus]

Call me cynical but Hollywood is almost definitely going to start using AI to write stuff sometime in the future. The best writers can do slow this down from happening. It sucks but it's inevitable imo.

 

All this AI talk has me tempted to rant about how I hate AI (from a developer/student POV) and every arrogant prick I know who is involved with it but I feel that's too off-topic.

[filmlover]

Don't think this was posted but here's the list of almost everything movie-wise that is or isn't affected by the strike. The TLDR version: everything that is currently filming, in post, or already have an officially set date as to when filming begins will be fine due to legal obligations from other unions* while the strike is ongoing.

 

Writers Strike Movie Production Impact: ‘Gladiator’ Sequel, ‘Beetlejuice’ Brave Shoots – Deadline

 

*: now is the time to mention that both SAG-AFTRA and DGA have contracts that expire on June 30, so it's going to be a busy summer as the entertainment industry works overtime to avoid a complete shutdown.

Edited May 3, 2023 by filmlover

[WorkingonaName]

AI can easily write better scripts for most modern Hollywood movies. 

[Porthos]

15 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

AI can easily write better scripts for most modern Hollywood movies. 

 

[tonytr87]

Of course the stooge above has an Elon avatar. 

[filmlover]

I wonder if the studios are about to release all the trailers they premiered during CinemaCon not available to the public yet over the next few weeks to break up the monotony of the endless "this is how the strike is impacting the industry today" articles that will be dominating the news cycle for the foreseeable future, especially when they'll already need to begin promoting their fall and holiday titles (that haven't begun their marketing campaigns yet) over the next 2-3 months.

[keysersoze123]

i get a feeling this will be a long running one :-( But real impact wont be known until we see crappy movies that were shot during this time period. 

[The Panda]

Both of the doomerisms that AI is going to destroy the world and the AI homers are sounding quite silly in this thread imo. Both coming from a misunderstanding of what current AI models actually are, and what their current limitations are.

 

In context of the writers guild:

 

The risk is not that AI can outright replace the job of a writer, but that they'll be misused making it easier to worsen compensation for writers and worsen the quality of sceenplays. The point is to provide protections to ensure that AI is used appropriately as tool (which is potentially helpful for writing quality).

 

AI used inappropriately probably looks like base sections of a script being written by ChatGPT and then cleaned by a lower compensated writer. This would probably be used most often by a streamer trying to get cheap content produced to fill out their catalogue for a month. This results in more lower quality scripts and provides worse compensation / benefits for the writer. Premium projects probably wouldn't have the same level of AI contribution (at least not in their current state). 

 

The above scenario isn't great, but it's a far cry from some of the scenarios y'all have brought up in this thread. Those read more like fearmongering to me, at least with the current state of the tech and my knowledge about how current AI models work.

[filmlover]

11 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

i get a feeling this will be a long running one 😞 But real impact wont be known until we see crappy movies that were shot during this time period. 

With the very real looming threat of a possible almost total industry shutdown (due to the DGA and SAG-AFTRA contracts also expiring soon) in less than two months, one has to imagine there will be a lot of running around panicking over making sure that doesn't happen or else they really will have a complete crisis on their hands. Can forget about that fun Barbie press tour or the mega-star-studded Oppenheimer premiere, both of which the Internet is no doubt hoping for, if it comes to that.

[tonytr87]

19 minutes ago, The Panda said:

Both of the doomerisms that AI is going to destroy the world and the AI homers are sounding quite silly in this thread imo. Both coming from a misunderstanding of what current AI models actually are, and what their current limitations are.

 

In context of the writers guild:

 

The risk is not that AI can outright replace the job of a writer, but that they'll be misused making it easier to worsen compensation for writers and worsen the quality of sceenplays. The point is to provide protections to ensure that AI is used appropriately as tool (which is potentially helpful for writing quality).

 

AI used inappropriately probably looks like base sections of a script being written by ChatGPT and then cleaned by a lower compensated writer. This would probably be used most often by a streamer trying to get cheap content produced to fill out their catalogue for a month. This results in more lower quality scripts and provides worse compensation / benefits for the writer. Premium projects probably wouldn't have the same level of AI contribution (at least not in their current state). 

 

The above scenario isn't great, but it's a far cry from some of the scenarios y'all have brought up in this thread. Those read more like fearmongering to me, at least with the current state of the tech and my knowledge about how current AI models work.

 

 

Thank. You. 

[Jason]

9 hours ago, jeffthehat said:

The problem is that it is undectable. Algorithms can identify language that is consistent with AI-generated output. But they're prone to false positives (e.g., OpenAI's text classifier page shows sections of Don Quixote being flagged as AI-generated). And how can you stop a writer from using an LLM to generate the broad outline of a plot or a character? It will still be used even if it is banned in name. The productivity gains are too significant to ignore on an individual level. Those who aren't using it are going to lose out to those who are. The WGA's stance seems rose-tinted and doesn't help them from a negotating standpoint, I think.

 

8 hours ago, keysersoze123 said:

Again how can one guarantee that LLM was not used. Its not just ChatGPT. There will be many others which will pop up. Facebook has Llama which is open source. Its possible to compile and run it locally on your machine. There will be other models as well. 

 

There seems to be a mistaken impression in that the WGA is advocating for a blanket ban on AI/LLMs. It isn't.

From: WGA Would Allow Artificial Intelligence in Scriptwriting - Variety
 

Quote

The WGA proposal states simply that AI-generated material will not be considered “literary material” or “source material.”
 

Those terms are key for assigning writing credits, which in turn have a big impact on residual compensation.

“Literary material” is a fundamental term in the WGA’s minimum basic agreement — it is what a “writer” produces (including stories, treatments, screenplays, dialogue, sketches, etc.). If an AI program cannot produce “literary material,” then it cannot be considered a “writer” on a project.

“Source material” refers to things like novels, plays and magazine articles, on which a screenplay may be based. If a screenplay is based on source material, then it is not considered an “original screenplay.” The writer may also get only a “screenplay by” credit, rather than a “written by” credit.

A “written by” credit entitles the writer to the full residual for the project, while a “screenplay by” credit gets 75%.

By declaring that ChatGPT cannot write “source material,” the guild would be saying that a writer could adapt an AI-written short story and still get full “written by” credit.

 

So "undetectable" usage of AI-generated material by a writer isn't an issue for the WGA. What they are arguing against is the AI can't be treated as a writer by studios - that is, studios can't present a writer with material from AI and tell them to edit it, and then screw them out of a writing credit to save money.

[tonytr87]

12 minutes ago, filmlover said:

With the very real looming threat of a possible almost total industry shutdown (due to the DGA and SAG-AFTRA contracts also expiring soon) in less than two months, one has to imagine there will be a lot of running around panicking over making sure that doesn't happen or else they really will have a complete crisis on their hands. Can forget about that fun Barbie press tour or the mega-star-studded Oppenheimer premiere, both of which the Internet is no doubt hoping for, if it comes to that.

 

There's a part of me that hopes SAG and DGA end up striking too, just to squeeze those CEOS even more. 

[keysersoze123]

Just now, Jason said:

 

 

There seems to be a mistaken impression in that the WGA is advocating for a blanket ban on AI/LLMs. It isn't.

From: WGA Would Allow Artificial Intelligence in Scriptwriting - Variety
 

 

So "undetectable" usage of AI-generated material by a writer isn't an issue for the WGA. What they are arguing against is the AI can't be treated as a writer by studios - that is, studios can't present a writer with material from AI and tell them to edit it, and then screw them out of a writing credit to save money.

I think that is a great proposal. Plus there is a bigger issue of copyrighting AI generated script. Who would own it?

[Jason]

1 minute ago, keysersoze123 said:

I think that is a great proposal. Plus there is a bigger issue of copyrighting AI generated script. Who would own it?

Based on existing copyright definitions, no one would own an AI-generated script as is. If it were sufficiently modified by human writers, they would have sole copyright.

[SpiderByte]

7 hours ago, dudalb said:

I also predict that AI written scripts will suck. 

AI can't create on its own. It can only approximate by cribbing from writing samples it learns from.

[ThomasNicole]

48 minutes ago, filmlover said:

With the very real looming threat of a possible almost total industry shutdown (due to the DGA and SAG-AFTRA contracts also expiring soon) in less than two months, one has to imagine there will be a lot of running around panicking over making sure that doesn't happen or else they really will have a complete crisis on their hands. Can forget about that fun Barbie press tour or the mega-star-studded Oppenheimer premiere, both of which the Internet is no doubt hoping for, if it comes to that.

Yeah, executives always treated writers as something lesser and just keeps going on without them during strikes but they all know nothing will move without actors and directors, period.

 

If that happens, the entire industry will shut down again just 3 years after COVID and everyone remember what happened, i´m pretty sure the demanding power will be way bigger if DGA and SAG put a deadline to start a strike, and studios will be willing to solve it very quickly as well because that would mean not only millions lost for future projects but also for the ones nearly ready to go that would be heavily impacted by a total shutdown. I really doubt something like this will happen.

[Jonwo]

5 hours ago, ThomasNicole said:

Yeah, executives always treated writers as something lesser and just keeps going on without them during strikes but they all know nothing will move without actors and directors, period.

 

If that happens, the entire industry will shut down again just 3 years after COVID and everyone remember what happened, i´m pretty sure the demanding power will be way bigger if DGA and SAG put a deadline to start a strike, and studios will be willing to solve it very quickly as well because that would mean not only millions lost for future projects but also for the ones nearly ready to go that would be heavily impacted by a total shutdown. I really doubt something like this will happen.

DGA and SAG tend to be the precursor to getting the WGA dispute settled, it happened in 2008, Hollywood execs aren't stupid, they can't afford to shut down Hollywood entirely. 

 

[Cap]

8 hours ago, keysersoze123 said:

i get a feeling this will be a long running one 😞 But real impact wont be known until we see crappy movies that were shot during this time period. 

 

The real deadline for this is June 30, when the DGA and SAG-AFTRA’s contracts are up. The true collective power to get what they want comes when all the Guilds go out at the same time.

 

But who knows if the WGA can, or wants, to stay out that long.