Weekend Thread (11/17-19) | Early Deadline #s - Songbirds 5.75-6M Previews, Trolls 2M

[JustLurking]

1 minute ago, DInky said:

 

A film can still reinforce negative stereotypes even if the filmmakers' intentions are good. That applies to most white savior movies. 

How about giving some examples of "negative stereotypes being reinforced by the film" here?

[Kon]

16 minutes ago, BadOlCatSylvester said:

Speaking of, they're taking The Marvels's performance pretty hard. One user in particular with a Kamala Khan profile picture is especially pissed and is adamant to blame racism and misogyny for the movie tanking. That same user was also a major Blue Beetle simp and was also similarly pissed when that bombed. Hopefully they read the room and realize that bigotry alone doesn't lead the sequel to a billion dollar blockbuster to nosedive to the level of Morbius.

 

Well, we can just hope that Hollywood executives don't think that's the reason. That would be pretty bad for representation.

[DInky]

5 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

How about giving some examples of "negative stereotypes being reinforced by the film" here?

 

It boils down to the Na'vi needing a white guy to lead them to victory. Jake is the one who rallies and organizes them into a fighting force. Without him taming the orange bird and gaining the title of Toruk Makto they wouldn't have managed to gather the clans. The notion that is reinforced here is that native people on their own are not smart or capable enough. They need help from a white man who comes from a superior civilized culture.

[Bob Train]

1 minute ago, DInky said:

 

It boils down to the Na'vi needing a white guy to lead them to victory. Jake is the one who rallies and organizes them into a fighting force. Without him taming the orange bird and gaining the title of Toruk Makto they wouldn't have managed to gather the clans. The notion that is reinforced here is that native people on their own are not smart or capable enough. They need help from a white man who comes from a superior civilized culture.

lol

[ringedmortality]

Avatar is cool cause it’s entertaining and a pretty movie

[Barnack]

51 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

This needs to be repeated 1000 times.  Movie going is no longer the cheapest activity.  Both "Netflix and ..." and "Let's just game online" are both wildly cheaper than movie going activities now

Yes watching tv always been (well outside some cable option) cheaper than movies even renting a vhs movie always been cheaper than going to the movies (specially if mentally not all the cost are being amortized).

 

By cheaper it is relative to all going out of the house options that movie has been and is still cheaper, there 12inch subways sub that cost more than movies tickets.

 

Competition is bigger-better, free by the air tv was much cheaper than YouTube via broadband internet, just less addictive.

[AMC Theaters Enjoyer]

Watched the trailers for The Fall Guy and Argylle before Hunger Games today. those two are gonna be in a duel for Worst Movie of 2024 if those trailers are anything to go by.

[Eric Prime]

1 minute ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

Watched the trailers for The Fall Guy and Argylle before Hunger Games today. those two are gonna be in a duel for Worst Movie of 2024 if those trailers are anything to go by.

Would be really fun to have an action comedy that wasn't just Diet John Wick starring Ryan Reynolds.

[JustLurking]

17 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

It boils down to the Na'vi needing a white guy to lead them to victory. Jake is the one who rallies and organizes them into a fighting force. Without him taming the orange bird and gaining the title of Toruk Makto they wouldn't have managed to gather the clans. The notion that is reinforced here is that native people on their own are not smart or capable enough. They need help from a white man who comes from a superior civilized culture.

I thought we were talking about "negative stereotypes" being propagated but somehow we just went back to your initial claim

 

Jake being the one to rally makes sense given that the rest of the na'vi were still coping both with losing their lifelong home, a religious symbol and just coming to terms with the sheer power they witnessed and the fear that instills

 

Not to mention the na'vis wouldn't be desperate to go after Toruk as they do not have any need to win the clan's trust back - Jake had to do it as otherwise he wouldn't even be allowed to get close

 

Even then, Jake's way of fighting back literally fails. Eywa did all the work, they were all going to die otherwise

 

I will again repeat that this sounds like a critique moved by someone who read the synopsis, and that your way of reducing the narrative (which is already quite simple by design, but perhaps not enough) to some buzzword is quite the opposite of the "critical thinking" high ground you're trying to take

Edited November 18, 2023 by JustLurking

[CaptainJackSparrow]

2 hours ago, Reed121 said:

Aquaman was a genuine 1 billion film. It wasn’t boosted by other movies like Captain Marvel. It was fun. Visually good. Momoa is a charismatic lead unlike Larson. Wan makes movies audiences like. It’s has way more going for it to avoid a huge drop like this.

All 1 billion films are "genuine". 

[AMC Theaters Enjoyer]

7 minutes ago, Eric Gray Baird said:

Would be really fun to have an action comedy that wasn't just Diet John Wick starring Ryan Reynolds.

Every new movie David Leitch makes reaffirms my belief that Chad Stahelski is responsible for why John Wick worked so well. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by AMC Theaters Enjoyer

[Mr Impossible]

2 hours ago, John Marston said:

 

One has a budget of $220 million probably more and is in the biggest film franchise of all time by far! The other has a $100 million budget in a dormant franchise in a genre that’s been on life support for years now.

[titanic2187]

1 hour ago, VanillaSkies said:

The difference with the Holdovers though is it very shortly will be getting some awards show love. Critics circle nominations and winners are coming up in a few weeks, then Golden Globes, then Oscar noms and awards show. 
 

This, Pricilla and a few others will benefit greatly. They will linger through December and the holidays, having small drops/bumps that month as nominations get announced, etc. and then will likely re-expand in January/February with so few films out at that time to capitalize on the buzz. Their November openings were really meant to be just appetizers. 
 

KOTFM to an extent might be able to do the same if they keep it off streaming until after the Oscars.

 

I can agree with you if we are in pre-Covid era. But the typical award season long run have since disappear. Holdovers' PTA this week will only be in $1600+ and I guess the PTA will soon dip to below $1000 in a week or two. That is far weaker as compared to pre-Covid platform release. Even if the movie managed to linger through award season, their numbers are often minuscule (plenty of examples during fall/winter of 2022) and won't matter by then. 

 

 

3 hours ago, filmlover said:

Excellent start for Saltburn, think that's a minor breakout in waiting. Happy that the specialty market is making a recovery away from the "how the mighty have fallen" franchise drops.

I don't really see where the recovery. They may perform great under 10 locations but the real test was after the movie going wide. So far most of their expansion run are meh and they still stuck in 10-20m finish range, which really isn't much different from 2021. I would say there is a recovery when specialty market constantly contribute hit of >30m. 

[DInky]

10 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

I thought we were talking about "negative stereotypes" being propagated but somehow we just went back to your initial claim

 

Jake being the one to rally makes sense given that the rest of the na'vi were still coping both with losing their lifelong home, a religious symbol and just coming to terms with the sheer power they witnessed and the fear that instills

 

Not to mention the na'vis wouldn't be desperate to go after Toruk as they do not have any need to win the clan's trust back - Jake had to do it as otherwise he wouldn't even be allowed to get close

 

Even then, Jake's way of fighting back literally fails. Eywa did all the work, they were all going to die otherwise

 

I will again repeat that this sounds like a critique moved by someone who read the synopsis, and that your way of reducing the narrative (which is already quite simple by design, but perhaps not enough) to some buzzword is quite the opposite of the "critical thinking" high ground you're trying to take

 

I've seen the movie. The justifications built into the story as to why it needs to be Jake who rallies them don't matter. It's a white saviour narrative with all the harmful tropes associated with it.

Edited November 18, 2023 by DInky

[James]

Well, dropping 81% from opening day is still better than the -92% in China and is more in line with the rest of the known overseas drops so far. Though to have that as your silver lining…

 

Tbh I don’t even know what to say. I remember people saying Fantastic Beasts 3 was a flop but that made over 400m WW. This is locked to only make around 190m if lucky. Tbh I think this is history in the making. I don’t think we’ll see a bombage of this level again anytime soon.

[Noctis]

I'm almost impressed at the catastrophic drop from Marvels. Holy shit, falling close to 80% is insanity. That is flat out rejection on a scale I have rarely seen in box office. 

 

 

[JustLurking]

2 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

I've seen the movie. The justifications built into the story as to why it needs to be Jake who rallies them don't matter. It's a white saviour narrative with all the harmful tropes associated with it.

"Context and nuance does not matter, buzzword fits all"

[DInky]

4 minutes ago, Noctis said:

I'm almost impressed at the catastrophic drop from Marvels. Holy shit, falling close to 80% is insanity. That is flat out rejection on a scale I have rarely seen in box office. 

 

 

 

The fact that it will likely nab the record for the biggest second weekend drop in the superhero genre from Steel (STEEL!) is amazing.

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by DInky

[Kon]

20 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

I thought we were talking about "negative stereotypes" being propagated but somehow we just went back to your initial claim

 

Jake being the one to rally makes sense given that the rest of the na'vi were still coping both with losing their lifelong home, a religious symbol and just coming to terms with the sheer power they witnessed and the fear that instills

 

Not to mention the na'vis wouldn't be desperate to go after Toruk as they do not have any need to win the clan's trust back - Jake had to do it as otherwise he wouldn't even be allowed to get close

 

Even then, Jake's way of fighting back literally fails. Eywa did all the work, they were all going to die otherwise

 

I will again repeat that this sounds like a critique moved by someone who read the synopsis, and that your way of reducing the narrative (which is already quite simple by design, but perhaps not enough) to some buzzword is quite the opposite of the "critical thinking" high ground you're trying to take

 

I think this is a little unfair. DInky is explaining why he/she could be read the story as "white savior".

 

This reading won't be intentional from the writers side, since the Avatar movie shows na'vi as the better race. However, I've understand why it could be an issue that the native race needs help from the "civilized" person. The story could justify that, but that was the writers choice.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Kon

[titanic2187]

1 hour ago, Brainbug said:

Comparison of bombs this year:

 

Ant Man and the Wasp: Quantumania:

The Flash:

 

 

The Marvels:

 

 

Through there are plenty of mega-flops this year but I can't shed the idea that the Flash was the bigger embarrassment among all. It is not only the financial loss, it is that WB show the sheer amount of confident and marketing troops (the best CBM of all time) that make the eventual flop a bigger shame. None of other flops was positioned as a mega-event like the way Flash did. I would even argue that Flash has the most pre-release buzz. among all the flops.