Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[ThomasNicole]

3 hours ago, marveldcfox said:

Mediocre. Other channels haven't blown up like the first teaser which did well on other official YouTube channels ex: fox star studios India. Also, twitter / facebook count is less compared to teaser. Don't know about china. Hard to predict box office, but I think TGM will be #1 domestic.

Lol what? The trailer did pretty much the same numbers of the teaser on YouTube. Yes, it's less spread on other channels than the teaser, but also almost double on the main channel. 

 

Both teaser and trailer did around 30M on it's first day on YT. 

 

I didn't track on other platforms but it's definitely not mediocre overall, especially because it's very common that the teaser ended up having way bigger views than the trailer, even on Marvel this happens all the time.

Edited November 3, 2022 by ThomasNicole

[Lion Roar]

Just because Cameron has never failed before doesn't mean he will never fail in the future. I'm not saying this movie is going to be bad, but past performance does not guarantee future results. 

[Dale Cooper]

I mean, the movie might well dissapoint box office wise, but that will not be because of a lack of hype. That's more about quality, which is basically impossible to know anything about yet. It's not like the teaser and trailer have dissapointed stream wise, the first teaser has something like 130M views only on youtube and the full length trailer is doing really well as well. It's gonna get a huge start, the question is just if it can get anywhere close to as big staying power as Avatar had back in the day.

[dignam]

18 minutes ago, marveldcfox said:

Like I said, I think this will be the first James Cameron movie to dissapoint at BO expectations wise. Just not feeling it. I thought the teaser did well in China, but trailer kinda flopped. Maybe fans are overestimating the appeal. Lot has changed since 2009.

 

 

Sure mate, cuz a chinese twitter account with just 420 follower said so. Should i remind you what the re-release one year ago did in china? Nearly the same it 2022 worldwide except china. If avatar gets a release in china, it will do well, i have no doubts.

[Deuce66]

 

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[Deuce66]

55 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

A movie bigger and better than everything else will always have appeal

 

 

Way of Water will do just fine, the overall reaction to the trailer has been extremely positive. My only issue with it is the lack of any RDA footage, no humans. Where's Giovanni, Michelle, Edie, Jermaine?

[SchumacherFTW]

14 minutes ago, Deuce66 said:

 

Way of Water will do just fine, the overall reaction to the trailer has been extremely positive. My only issue with it is the lack of any RDA footage, no humans. Where's Giovanni, Michelle, Edie, Jermaine?

Michelle Rodriguez is back? Thought she got exploded by Quaritch? Or is any human killed on Pandora just reincarnated as a freaking Na'vi? 😅

[hw64]

14 minutes ago, SchumacherFTW said:

Michelle Rodriguez is back? Thought she got exploded by Quaritch? Or is any human killed on Pandora just reincarnated as a freaking Na'vi? 😅

 

He means Michelle Yeoh. But she's not actually in Avatar 2, only 3 and beyond it looks like.

[Porthos]

*catches up on the last few pages*

 

Wait a tic.

 

Are we now saying that JJ Abrams Style "Mystery Box Marketing" is a GOOD thing again?  After railing against it for the better part of a few years?

 

Now I know that some people probably have no issues with "holding things back" for the movie and on balance might prefer it, so I'm more talking about Board Vibe here.

 

But, gotta tell ya, I find this phenomenon... interesting.

 

====

 

Yes yes, Cameron is leagues better than JJ Abrams when it comes to telling a story — so the comparison is unfair on its face.  Point taken in advance.  No need to say it.

 

But.... After being inundated with Mystery Box Marketing from multiple franchises for the better part of a few years, you know what would be a breath of fresh air?  Someone saying "nuts to that" and actually promoting the story of their movie.

 

Maybe one of the reasons for perhaps pedestrian trailer views is because this might not be the type of movie that should have Mystery Box Marketing. 

 

Doesn't mean "give away everything".  But perhaps a little more meat on the bone wouldn't be amiss.

 

Mind, it'll make for killer legs should Cameron deliver as he nearly always does.  At the same time, some of us are very tired of Mystery Box Marketing.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

[Maggie]

I don't get the panic over trailer reception. The Avatar trailer is doing very good on social media. The TG2 trailer doesn't even have 300k likes and this after the movie is released. Avatar 2 is a movie aimed at the general audience and they don't spend their time liking youtube videos.

 

Movie will be big. At least 800M

[Borobudur]

41 minutes ago, Deuce66 said:

 

Way of Water will do just fine, the overall reaction to the trailer has been extremely positive. My only issue with it is the lack of any RDA footage, no humans. Where's Giovanni, Michelle, Edie, Jermaine?

That is why we are in need of 3rd trailer. I still believe human characters is essential to reach out to maximum number of audiences.

 

Also, I am curious just how many % of the movie are live action? I mean, they spent whole 2019 and some months across year 2020 to shoot the live action scenes after all. The teaser and trailer look like 100% CGI to me.   

[hw64]

25 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Maybe one of the reasons for perhaps pedestrian trailer views is because this might not be the type of movie that should have Mystery Box Marketing. 

 

Doesn't mean "give away everything".  But perhaps a little more meat on the bone wouldn't be amiss.

 

Mind, it'll make for killer legs should Cameron deliver as he nearly always does.  At the same time, some of us are very tired of Mystery Box Marketing.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

 

I agree that a more narrative-focused trailer would have been a good idea to appeal to the plot-obsessed [American] audiences of current year (especially those who will be watching Black Panther in about a week), but I don't agree that this is "Mystery Box Marketing." My intuitive intepretation of that phrase would be the teasing of potential (but not necessarily actual) plot points and/or character arcs as a means of driving interest. The fact that the trailer hasn't given much away about the plot doesn't mean it's "Mystery Box Marketing."

 

"Mystery Box Marketing" is giving the audience speculation fodder. The Avatar 2 trailer doesn't do that: it point-blank refuses to reveal any significant, non-obvious plot details, instead relying on vibes, spectacle and feeling to generate interest, which I think it does very well. The trailer's very effective, and I wouldn't necessarily replace it with a more narrative-focused trailer given the chance, but I think having a more narrative-focused third trailer would be ideal to appeal to certain sections of moviegoers.

 

In any case, as others have pointed out, regardless of the outcome it's hardly going to affect the box office in the long term; it's just a choice between a lower opening and better legs, or a higher opening and worse legs.

Edited November 3, 2022 by hw64

[Porthos]

3 minutes ago, hw64 said:

), but I don't agree that this is "Mystery Box Marketing." My intuitive intepretation of that phrase would be the teasing of potential (but not necessarily actual) plot points and/or character arcs as a means of driving interest. The fact that the trailer hasn't given much away about the plot doesn't mean it's "Mystery Box Marketing."

 

"Mystery Box Marketing" is giving the audience speculation fodder. The Avatar 2 trailer doesn't do that: it point-blank refuses to reveal any significant, non-obvious plot details, instead relying on vibes, spectacle and feeling to generate interest.

 

Might be splitting hairs, but the interviews that JJ gave which birthed the term talked about how he wanted his surprises/story of his movie told in the movie. How the sense of wonder and astonishment should be better served fresh and not hunched over a screen.

 

And he's right. He's very very right.

 

Unfortunately, we've somewhat shifted from "don't spoil the third act" (sensible to the point of being self-evident) to "don't tell anything about the story" (not so much).

 

As always, this is something of a continuum, but I do think too many marketing departments have learned the wrong lessons when it comes to Mystery Box Marketing.  It was those comments from Cameron which, paraphrasing, guaranteed that "no one" could guess surprises in the movie + the... curious decisions of the marketing surrounding this movie which crystallized this in my head this morning.

 

As I was just saying to Cap off thread, the marketing of this movie is near textbook Mystery Box Marketing, in my opinion.  Heavy on vibes and world setting selling, light on character beats or actual story points.

 

And I'm not so much criticizing it as having an "aha!" moment.  

 

Needless to say it can work.  It has worked and worked amazingly well, so this is in no way shape or form a concern troll post.  Hell, it's not even a "wonder if the bet will pay off" observation, as I'm sure it will.  Just something clicking in to place for Yours Truly.

 

Admittedly, given SW marketing on both large and small screen for the last seven years or so (with the welcome and notable exception of Andor), this would be something of a Sore Spot for me — so something to keep in mind when I occasionally harp on this.

[hw64]

17 minutes ago, Porthos said:

As I was just saying to Cap off thread, the marketing of this movie is near textbook Mystery Box Marketing, in my opinion.  Heavy on vibes and world setting selling, light on character beats or actual story points.

 

I don't watch many trailers, but my brain is telling me that this is something that's extremely rare, and that it's something really only Avatar 2 has done in recently memory (when it comes to big blockbusters). Other people seem to agree that the trailer is a highly unusual one for the class of film that Avatar 2 is in: https://www.polygon.com/23436717/avatar-2-way-water-trailer-breakdown-3d-release-james-cameron.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong because, again, I don't watch a lot of trailers, but what are some of the other examples you have in mind when it comes to "heavy on vibes and world setting selling, light on character beats or actual story points" marketing for a tentpole blockbuster?

Edited November 3, 2022 by hw64

[Deep Wang]

Yeah,  I wanted more from the trailer personally.  Am I going to go see it in IMAX 3D on opening night?  Sure.  However, I'm not the general public and I can't help but feel like this is a trailer that just wants to say, "Look, more Avatar!  Remember how this thing glows and that thing floats??"  

 

I'm going to go almost out of obligation as opposed to being impossibly hyped and counting down the days.  Does that ultimately matter since they are still getting my money?  No.  But, how many other people out there are needing a reason to go see it, because "more avatar" doesn't mean a thing to them?

[CaptNathanBrittles]

Cameron's formula for making sequels so far is: Remake first film + add a novel twist (this time they have weapons, this time Arnie is the good guy) + ramp it up to 11.

 

I don't expect AVATAR 2 to be any different. Maybe 3-5 will be.

[Elessar]

 

[Porthos]

56 minutes ago, hw64 said:

 

I don't watch many trailers, but my brain is telling me that this is something that's extremely rare, and that it's something really only Avatar 2 has done in recently memory (when it comes to big blockbusters). Other people seem to agree that the trailer is a highly unusual one for the class of film that Avatar 2 is in: https://www.polygon.com/23436717/avatar-2-way-water-trailer-breakdown-3d-release-james-cameron.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong because, again, I don't watch a lot of trailers, but what are some of the other examples you have in mind when it comes to "heavy on vibes and world setting selling, light on character beats or actual story points" marketing for a tentpole blockbuster?

 

Well, nearly all Star Wars trailers ever since TFA for one.  On the TV side, The Book of Boba Fett was a notorious example here of not selling the type of story being told and hiding a particularly important piece of the storytelling when it came to setting expectations of what was actually gonna happen.

 

That being said there is the example of The Last Jedi. That was pretty much Exactly What It Said On the Tin.

 

But it's also something of a commentary of how the spoiler-phobic nature of fans are being more and more catered to where the folks who say "I don't want to know anything about a movie" are actually being given more weight than perhaps they should.

 

I admit a certain irony that I'm mostly pointing to vibes and feelings within fandom here and not citing many concrete examples outside of Star Wars, but, well A] I'm incredibly focused on SW (nearly to the point of parody ) and B] I'm also pretty busy elsewhere on the forum (in the Streaming Tracking thread) so I can't really point to too many examples off hand.

 

What I can say is that this isn't a complaint unique to SW fans, as I've seen it casually in other conversations.  But since it is a casual observation I admittedly can't point to hard and fast examples, so apologies in advance.

 

(also apologies for any thread derailment that might be happening because of this observation)

[hw64]

1 hour ago, Deep Wang said:

I'm going to go almost out of obligation as opposed to being impossibly hyped and counting down the days.  Does that ultimately matter since they are still getting my money?  No.  But, how many other people out there are needing a reason to go see it, because "more avatar" doesn't mean a thing to them?

 

Again, those that are left wanting for a reason to go will be given one during the extended holiday period when word-of-mouth about the movie gets out. The only real advantage of frontloading like that is as a safety blanket if you think the movie is going to be mediocre or shit, in which case you want to cram as many gullible people into the opening weekend as possible; I don't think that's a danger here.

 

In fact, thinking about it now, doesn't the clear disinterest in providing any real narrative hooks itself signal a confidence in the movie's quality? As I say, if you were concerned about the quality of the movie or about general audience interest, then the optimal strategy would be to provide the audience with as many hooks as possible in order to frontload as much as you can before the word of mouth gets out.

Edited November 3, 2022 by hw64

[NCsoft]

1 hour ago, Borobudur said:

That is why we are in need of 3rd trailer. I still believe human characters is essential to reach out to maximum number of audiences.

So how likely do we think a third trailer is on the way?

I didn't think there would be one but after seeing this new trailer, not so sure anymore.

It just seems to me that a lot has been withheld and most if not all the scenes seem like they are from the first half of the movie, the vibe feels so different from the final trailer for the original that I think there is room for a final trailer.