The Little Mermaid | Disney | May 26, 2023 | Queen Halle will rule the summer!

[Hatebox]

25 minutes ago, ThePrinceIsOnFire said:

I also think that is unfair to claim racism on the european when they are the one whose culture is being appropriated over and over again (and always has been, hitorically) by american disney and rearranged to fit US politcal agenda.

 

 

You've said 'blackwashing' about 17 times so I'm not sure you're helping your case here.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Hatebox

[ThePrinceIsOnFire]

19 minutes ago, Hatebox said:

 

 

You've said 'blackwashing' about 17 times so I'm not sure you're helping your case here.

 

 

Just twice, actually! But still, how would you describe this phenomenon? Race-bending is too large/vague of a term (also, is "latin" a race? there is much of a debate on that, still). 

Anyway, this is not the first time a white female character gets the "disney black" threatment. We've seen it recently with the Blue Fairy in Pinocchio. Mind you, this really upset many italians (Pinocchio is an italian story by an italian author set in Italy, and the blue fairy is as white and fair as she can be, as she is first disguised as a child coming from nobilty) but probably had a minor echo due to A) the character having a very small side role, B ) Pinocchio not being as anticipated/popular as TLM, C ) the movie coming out straight to disney+.

 

I think the uproar will be more with TLM, and I don't think people will pay a theatre fee to hate-watch this. We will see how it will turn out, but I don't think that a good performance at the US box office will be enough for this to be a success or get back its hefty budget. 

[Valonqar]

LOl, this movie already has almost twice as big awareness as Black Adam. 🧜‍♀️

 

Poor Rock.  

[Inceptionzq]

3 hours ago, ThePrinceIsOnFire said:

by american disney and rearranged to fit US politcal agenda

You say this but she was noticed by the director because of her 2019 Grammys performance and was asked by him to audition.

3 hours ago, ThePrinceIsOnFire said:

People also think Bailey is quite ugly with her eyes set really wide apart, and many just comment on her with the Eye emoji - space space space space - eye emoji.

The fact that people are stooping down to this level speaks volumes.

[ChipDerby]

It's hilarious that the group who loves to say "just hire the best person for the job!!!" never actually considers that maybe the black person IS the best person for the job.

 

I wonder why that is...

 

(also, if they cast a black actress for Ursula, they would have never complained because they don't care if black people play villains)

[ChipDerby]

5 hours ago, ThePrinceIsOnFire said:

I think people are in for a rude awakening regarding the B.O.  performance of this one.

The trailer has more than 2m of dislikes, greatly outnumbering the likes. The general consensus in EU (as an Italian who just came back from some months off in France I can speak for this two main markets, at least) is negative and there is outrage at the blackwashing. People also think Bailey is quite ugly with her eyes set really wide apart, and many just comment on her with the Eye emoji - space space space space - eye emoji.

Americans need to understand that their society/culture is peculiar and does not reflect the WW sentiment/taste. 

 

This will probably do well in USA and flop everywhere else much like Nope did. The diseney brand/nostalgia factor will be neutralized by the blackwashing which most non US disneyfans are not ok with.

I also think that is unfair to claim racism on the european when they are the one whose culture is being appropriated over and over again (and always has been, historically) by american disney and rearranged to fit US politcal agenda. For example, Snow white is so important to German culture that it literally was compiled by the brothers Grimm in hopes of awakening a nationalist spirit in german people of the time. Folk tales and lores should be respected no matter where they come from. Just imagine the uprising that a white - non faithful- adaptation of a Japanese folk tale (aka a tale coming from a non minority- rich powerful country) would cause.

 

As for the next remakes, I think Hercules and Hunchback have a certain room for success, but they need big stars and proper adaptations that stay true to the originals tone (comedy for Hercules, epic drama for Hunchback). Whether disney can do that, remains to be seen. So far their remakes have been horrible cash grabs, the sooner forgotten the better.

 

Glad you're able to just admit how racist the rest of the world is.

[ThomasNicole]

Isn't this the same person who agreed that critics gave Jordan Peele movies good reviews because of political agendas? 

 

I'm sensing a pattern here but i won't go further 

[ThomasNicole]

If the movie is good, it will do well. 

 

It's time to accept that many times online hate means nothing. Honestly, anyone really believes these 35 year old guys whining about a black mermaid would see the movie if it's a white actress? They don't care about this movie, they just want to be the shitty racists they are. 

 

Kinda like everyone keeps saying the problem isn't the black actress and the fact that the industry should create new characters for black actors, and still The Woman King is being attacked the same way.

 

It's better to just let them scream.

[Ozymandias]

6 hours ago, ThePrinceIsOnFire said:

I think people are in for a rude awakening regarding the B.O.  performance of this one.

The trailer has more than 2m of dislikes, greatly outnumbering the likes. The general consensus in EU (as an Italian who just came back from some months off in France I can speak for this two main markets, at least) is negative and there is outrage at the blackwashing. People also think Bailey is quite ugly with her eyes set really wide apart, and many just comment on her with the Eye emoji - space space space space - eye emoji.

Americans need to understand that their society/culture is peculiar and does not reflect the WW sentiment/taste. 

 

This will probably do well in USA and flop everywhere else much like Nope did. The diseney brand/nostalgia factor will be neutralized by the blackwashing which most non US disneyfans are not ok with.

I also think that is unfair to claim racism on the european when they are the one whose culture is being appropriated over and over again (and always has been, historically) by american disney and rearranged to fit US politcal agenda. For example, Snow white is so important to German culture that it literally was compiled by the brothers Grimm in hopes of awakening a nationalist spirit in german people of the time. Folk tales and lores should be respected no matter where they come from. Just imagine the uprising that a white - non faithful- adaptation of a Japanese folk tale (aka a tale coming from a non minority- rich powerful country) would cause.

 

As for the next remakes, I think Hercules and Hunchback have a certain room for success, but they need big stars and proper adaptations that stay true to the originals tone (comedy for Hercules, epic drama for Hunchback). Whether disney can do that, remains to be seen. So far their remakes have been horrible cash grabs, the sooner forgotten the better.

 

Isn't the little mermaid a fucking cartoon character created for little girls or am I missing something here?

[ThePrinceIsOnFire]

36 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

Isn't this the same person who agreed that critics gave Jordan Peele movies good reviews because of political agendas? 

 

I'm sensing a pattern here but i won't go further 

 

Actually, I'm the one who said that I would wait for european reviews of Nope as they would likely be not as positive, and that the movie would most likely bomb in EU. Both of those things turned out to be true. Nope is a bomb OS and the european reviews where in no ways as kind as the american ones.

 

That being said, we are in a forum about box office predictions, this is not the place to push anyone's political beliefs. As a european I say that I'm seeing a lot of hatred and complaints coming from europeans which will translate in poor revenues for the movie in the EU markets (bar maybe the UK which shares a lot more in common with USA than the rest of EU). I'm 99% confident that this will happen and the film will indeed flop in EU (and other foreign countries, for what matters).

 

(Does this make European racists? It's up to you to decide, but I think racism gets measured by way more important stuff, and some countries in Eu have certainly given more support and safety to their POC population than USA has ever done).

 

@Ozymandias The Little mermaid isn't just a cartoon character made for little girls. This is what disney's cultural appropriation made her into in the 90's, but she is actually the protagonist of a Danish fairytale from one of the most important Danish writer. The little mermaid is so important for the Danes that her statue in Copenaghen is believed to be the most iconic symbol of Denmark.

Needless to say, the Danes were not really keen on the 90's version of the little mermaid, nor are they excited for this new adaptation. But in all fairness, neither were the French when Hunchback of Notre Dame was downplayed into the animated movie...basically what american disney has done to the european cultural heritage has never been fully appreciated by the culture they vultured from (nor will it ever be).

Edited September 14, 2022 by ThePrinceIsOnFire

[lorddemaxus]

4 minutes ago, ThePrinceIsOnFire said:

 

Actually, I'm the one who said that I would wait for european reviews of Nope as they would likely be not as positive, and that the movie would most likely bomb in EU. Both of those things turned out to be true. Nope is a bomb OS and the european reviews where in no ways as kind as the american ones.

European press seemed to like Nope tho. For example, a 4.2 on allocine. So you're just wrong and dumb. And why are you comparing a Little Mermaid remake to an original film by a director whose base was always the US? 

[ThePrinceIsOnFire]

3 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

European press seemed to like Nope tho. For example, a 4.2 on allocine. So you're just wrong and dumb. And why are you comparing a Little Mermaid remake to an original film by a director whose base was always the US? 

I'm not comparing them, the other user brought this up to shade me. 

Also, who are you to say I'm dumb?

Nope had middling reviews in my country, Italy (3 out of 5 stars on average, with a 6.2/10 medium). It also had mild reviews in Spain and Germany, as far as I Know.  

 

[Eric Loves Rey]

I mean Disney's Americanized European fairy tales (and fairy tales in general of course) since the 1930s and the other remakes did just fine in Europe, even though they were made by those pesky culture vultures at Hollywood. Maybe Halle's casting really will make this a megabomb of epic proportions, which still seems unlikely to me, but that doesn't say anything about how "OMG DISNEY IS APPROPRIATING OUR CULTURE" and instead a much grosser side to some (not all) European viewers.

[ThomasNicole]

47 minutes ago, ThePrinceIsOnFire said:

 

Actually, I'm the one who said that I would wait for european reviews of Nope as they would likely be not as positive, and that the movie would most likely bomb in EU. Both of those things turned out to be true. Nope is a bomb OS and the european reviews where in no ways as kind as the american ones.

 

That being said, we are in a forum about box office predictions, this is not the place to push anyone's political beliefs. As a european I say that I'm seeing a lot of hatred and complaints coming from europeans which will translate in poor revenues for the movie in the EU markets (bar maybe the UK which shares a lot more in common with USA than the rest of EU). I'm 99% confident that this will happen and the film will indeed flop in EU (and other foreign countries, for what matters).

 

(Does this make European racists? It's up to you to decide, but I think racism gets measured by way more important stuff, and some countries in Eu have certainly given more support and safety to their POC population than USA has ever done).

 

@Ozymandias The Little mermaid isn't just a cartoon character made for little girls. This is what disney's cultural appropriation made her into in the 90's, but she is actually the protagonist of a Danish fairytale from one of the most important Danish writer. The little mermaid is so important for the Danes that her statue in Copenaghen is believed to be the most iconic symbol of Denmark.

Needless to say, the Danes were not really keen on the 90's version of the little mermaid, nor are they excited for this new adaptation. But in all fairness, neither were the French when Hunchback of Notre Dame was downplayed into the animated movie...basically what american disney has done to the european cultural heritage has never been fully appreciated by the culture they vultured from (nor will it ever be).

Nah, this is what you said: 

 

"There is definitely an issue with north american critics and their bias when it comes to african american directors...they seem to be more mellow and less inclined to sharpen their teeths the way they would do for a white director (I'm thinking about Joe Wright and the venomous reviews he often receives despite the quality of his movies being relatively high on average and pretty beloved by the general audiences)." 

 

 

Like i said i won't go further in this, but it is a weird pattern of keep saying how american culture (you want to say be more diverse?) is "peculiar" and using twisted phrases like blackfishing or bias for black directors.

[ThePrinceIsOnFire]

22 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

Nah, this is what you said: 

 

"There is definitely an issue with north american critics and their bias when it comes to african american directors...they seem to be more mellow and less inclined to sharpen their teeths the way they would do for a white director (I'm thinking about Joe Wright and the venomous reviews he often receives despite the quality of his movies being relatively high on average and pretty beloved by the general audiences)." 

 

 

Like i said i won't go further in this, but it is a weird pattern of keep saying how american culture (you want to say be more diverse?) is "peculiar" and using twisted phrases like blackfishing or bias for black directors.

 You won't go furhter yet you keep on posting, being unfair at it too.

My whole message:

 

There is definitely an issue with north american critics and their bias when it comes to african american directors...they seem to be more mellow and less inclined to sharpen their teeths the way they would do for a white director (I'm thinking about Joe Wright and the venomous reviews he often receives despite the quality of his movies being relatively high on average and pretty beloved by the general audiences). 

I think it would be wise to wait for the foreign press to review the movie before we call it a masterpiece or a good film even... we saw what happened with US and there is no way that film is worthy of the good reviews it got.

 

The bolded part, which you decided to cut for some reason, is exactly what I said in my previous message, After that, In other messages I said that Nope was going to flop OS (and got much hate for it), and then I never posted about that movie again.

How is "Blackwashing" (I've never said Blackfishing, you must have made a mistake) a twisted phrase? In my country there is a whole entry on wikipedia on the subject:

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwashing

Then again. I am tired. I won't be dragged further in this non-sense. You want to think that the whole world is happy about this movie and eager to see it? Stay delusional. I can't lie and say that the reactions I'm seeing from europeans is positive or that it will earn well at the B.O. Me saying it won't change the reality of its inevitable flop, YOU saying it won't change it either. Do you care to understand why Europeans might not be interested in this, or is "Racism" the only answer to you?

Edited September 14, 2022 by ThePrinceIsOnFire

[ThePrinceIsOnFire]

50 minutes ago, The Eric King said:

I mean Disney's Americanized European fairy tales (and fairy tales in general of course) since the 1930s and the other remakes did just fine in Europe, even though they were made by those pesky culture vultures at Hollywood. Maybe Halle's casting really will make this a megabomb of epic proportions, which still seems unlikely to me, but that doesn't say anything about how "OMG DISNEY IS APPROPRIATING OUR CULTURE" and instead a much grosser side to some (not all) European viewers.

The other remakes were somewhat more respectful of the culture they were vulturing from. 

Cinderella had a mostly european cast, (white) British leads and a British setting. It even had a european director. 

Beauty and the Beast had a mostly european cast, a French-born British actress playing Belle and a a French (even though it was not real locations) setting.

 

Pinocchio is the one who has taken the most liberties from its source material and it flopped hardly, panned by critics and hated by the italians.

Maleficent/Cruella/Alice don't really count as they were never meant to be faithful remakes but rather retelling/reimagining of the stories that share so little with the source material that it is hard to even expect cultural sensibility from them.

Edited September 14, 2022 by ThePrinceIsOnFire

[ThomasNicole]

21 minutes ago, ThePrinceIsOnFire said:

 Yes you won't go furhter yet you keep on posting, being unfair at it too.

My whole message:

There is definitely an issue with north american critics and their bias when it comes to african american directors...they seem to be more mellow and less inclined to sharpen their teeths the way they would do for a white director (I'm thinking about Joe Wright and the venomous reviews he often receives despite the quality of his movies being relatively high on average and pretty beloved by the general audiences). 

I think it would be wise to wait for the foreign press to review the movie before we call it a masterpiece or a good film even... we saw what happened with US and there is no way that film is worthy of the good reviews it got.

 

The bolded part, which you decided to cut for some reason, is exactly what I said in my previous message, After that, In other messages I said that Nope was going to flop OS (and got much hate for it), and then I never posted about that movie again.

 

How is "Blackwashing" (I've never said Blackfishing, you must have made a mistake) a twisted phrase? In my country there is a whole entry on wikipedia on the subject:

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwashing

 

Then again. I am tired. I won't be dragged further in this non-sense. You want to think that the whole world is happy about this movie and eager to see it? Stay delusional. I can't lie and say that the reactions I'm seeing from european is positive or that it will earn well at the B.O. Me saying it won't change the reality of its inevitable flop, YOU saying it won't change it either. Do you care to understand why European might not be interested in this, or "Racism" is the only answer to you?

What exactly changed in the part i cut? It's simply redundant, that's why i cut.

 

You said everyone should wait foreign press before call the movie good ... because american critics have bias for black directors. Is this supposed to make it look better? 

 

It's the same thing about The Little Mermaid to stay on topic, i know what blackwashing means (and yes i wrote it wrong in the previous post), it's not what this is since the skin color doesn't matter for this version of the character, it's an remake of the animated movie.

 

For danish people specifically i can see the problem that begun on 1990 and not now, and it's a old problem overall since Disney did this adaptations for a whole century now, but Europe overall never really cares about it, the 1990 version did just fine, what changed now? Why now people are so upset? There's no excuses.

 

Anyway, this is my final post and i'm only answering because i wasn't being unfair, the part i cut don't change anything in what you said. You have yours arguments that are usually fair even if i disagreed, but the way you write is always weird and questionable on this subject and i feel i should talk about it.

[YM!]

1 hour ago, lorddemaxus said:

European press seemed to like Nope tho. For example, a 4.2 on allocine. So you're just wrong and dumb. And why are you comparing a Little Mermaid remake to an original film by a director whose base was always the US? 

Nah, he sounds about white.

[YM!]

Also the book doesn’t really say what race Ariel is either just that her skin is free of blemishes and on top of that fairy tales have been adapted and changed multiple times over history, honestly don’t get why we’re taking bait from a less than subtle bigot.

[ThePrinceIsOnFire]

33 minutes ago, YM! said:

Also the book doesn’t really say what race Ariel is either just that her skin is free of blemishes and on top of that fairy tales have been adapted and changed multiple times over history, honestly don’t get why we’re taking bait from a less than subtle bigot.

This is simply not true though. From the original tale:

They were six beautiful children; but the youngest was the prettiest of them all; her skin was as clear and delicate as a rose-leaf, and her eyes as blue as the deepest sea; but, like all the others, she had no feet, and her body ended in a fish’s tail.

When something like a black cloud passed between her and them, she knew that it was either a whale swimming over her head, or a ship full of human beings, who never imagined that a pretty little mermaid was standing beneath them, holding out her white hands towards the keel of their ship.

He fixed his coal-black eyes upon her so earnestly that she cast down her own, and then became aware that her fish’s tail was gone, and that she had as pretty a pair of white legs and tiny feet as any little maiden could have; but she had no clothes, so she wrapped herself in her long, thick hair.

Then the little mermaid raised her lovely white arms, stood on the tips of her toes, and glided over the floor, and danced as no one yet had been able to dance.

Then her sisters came up on the waves, and gazed at her mournfully, wringing their white hands.

The little mermaid leaned her white arms on the edge of the vessel, and looked towards the east for the first blush of morning, for that first ray of dawn that would bring her death. She saw her sisters rising out of the flood: they were as pale as herself; but their long beautiful hair waved no more in the wind, and had been cut off.

 

 

https://andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheLittleMermaid_e.html from the official Hans Christian Andersen Center website.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by ThePrinceIsOnFire