Thor: Love and Thunder | July 8, 2022 | Directed by Oscar Winner Taika Waititi | Ninth most profitable movie of 2022

[Pinacolada]

 

I'm honestly surprised that this is the one that's breaking everyone's brains. Definitely surprised it's even mixed among general audiences.

Performance wise I thought everyone showed up. An effectively creepy villain, Christian Bale crushed it. The only thing missing was a sequence or montage of him butchering gods (which it sounds like there was but they cut it???). Russell Crowe was pretty funny. An actual visually creative 3rd act action setpiece, unlike No Way Home, Black Widow, Shang Chi, Black Panther, Eternals, and on and on and on and on.

The biggest criticism I've seen was the absolute barrage of comedy. Trust me, you won't find many people who absolutely loathe the soy banter and the seeming necessity of these MCU movies to have a joke every 16 seconds. This movie has a lot of jokes and all that, but I thought the majority of them were actually funny. Good recurring bits (the goats, the weapons). There were like 2 sequences that were clearly just "improv. Do whatever" that fell flatter, but besides that, funny stuff

The thing I hate the most about the MCUs humor is the necessity to undercut a dramatic moment with humor. The lamest thing in modern cinema. Having heard so much about this movie, I thought it would be filled with that. But that never happened. This movie let its emotional and sincere moments actually play-out and have effect.

So I gotta say, I liked it ok. Not great, but how many of these really are...

[John Marston]

Marvel thought they could just send actors to party in Australia, call it a movie, and release it to an easy billion. Glad people are pushing back and demanding better 

Edited July 17, 2022 by John Marston

[John Marston]

4 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

I see this as a growing pains issue. Doing more stuff means they're letting directors have more leeway. Also doing more stuff means by law of averages there's just going to be things that some people don't like that others will. Between and covid productions just been a bit tricky, but once things stabilize (specifically now that almost all their productions that were impacted by covid are complete) I think people will see thaibrecent turbulence as a blip on the radar. Even with a 68 drop it's still likely to pass Ragnarok WW

Uh no 

[Rebeccas]

10 hours ago, Valonqar said:

If there's MCU problem post Endgame, I'd say it's delegation of duties. D+ made overseeing by one unifying figure impossible, so you can feel that people who oversee different parts of MCU or projects are kinda pursuing their interests rather than interest of the whole. And they may not be as good at creating the synergy of talent's signature style and MCU needs so we get the feeling of "director is let loose to do whatever he wants". 

Can’t say I’d blame Feige if he chose to manage the burgeoning tv side more, especially since he got very reliable directors for the movies this time around like who would’ve thought Chloe Zhao would make the first rotten MCU film? Or Waititi AND Rami would make such polarizing films? 

[Valonqar]

10 minutes ago, John Marston said:

Marvel thought they could just send actors to party in Australia, call it a movie, and release it to an easy billion. Glad people are pushing back and demanding better 

 

even MCU characters agree. 🍹

[John Marston]

https://collider.com/thor-love-and-thunder-reactions-reviews-is-it-good/
 

 

cam someone explain how these early reactions are this much more positive than the actual reaction of the film? Are these paid shills? Are they being told they will get less access if they are hard on it? 

[ThomasNicole]

20 minutes ago, John Marston said:

https://collider.com/thor-love-and-thunder-reactions-reviews-is-it-good/
 

 

cam someone explain how these early reactions are this much more positive than the actual reaction of the film? Are these paid shills? Are they being told they will get less access if they are hard on it? 

People that liked it simply liked it very much. 

 

You can see this pattern on Rotten Tomatoes, it´s unusual to have the % very close to the actual average because of their metrics, but it happens when a movie is divisive which is the case here. Despite the dangerously low 68%, it have 6.5 overall average which is decent. On top critics is even worse, despite a very bad 50%, it still have an positive 6.2 average.

 

Thor average is not really far from other MCU overall averages like Ant Man / Black Widow [6.9] or Captain Marvel [6.8], but these have way better % because they´re not that divisive. And it´s not very far because there is a group that really liked Thor a lot and give it high praise compensating the ones who hated it, these reactions are simply the group that liked it being loud after the premiere.

 

If you go back to this thread you´ll find a lot of meh / bad reactions from the screenings post the premiere, we just thought they would be a minority and it ended up being kinda balanced to our surprise. 

 

There´s no conspiracy theory here, this is absurd. 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by ThomasNicole

[cedec0]

Quote

Can’t say I’d blame Feige if he chose to manage the burgeoning tv side more, especially since he got very reliable directors for the movies this time around like who would’ve thought Chloe Zhao would make the first rotten MCU film? Or Waititi AND Rami would make such polarizing films? 

 

People give Feige too much credit.

 

The first twenty films of the MCU were a giant build-up towards Thanos.  When Feige declared before endgame that "Captain Marvel is the most powerful in the MCU", this undercut the build-up  (this isn't about politics, it's about story telling).  A good villain is supposed to be stronger (think the scarlet witch).

 

If Thanos was Feige's baby, he would never have undermined him like that.  The vision behind the MCU was someone else and that person is probably gone.

Edited July 19, 2022 by cedec0
Fixed typo

[Hatebox]

This mild trend of MCU mediocrity does feel like it's putting more and more of a burden Black Panther 2, a burden I suspect it can't carry given the two best characters aren't around.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Hatebox

[reddevil19]

3 hours ago, John Marston said:

https://collider.com/thor-love-and-thunder-reactions-reviews-is-it-good/
 

 

cam someone explain how these early reactions are this much more positive than the actual reaction of the film? Are these paid shills? Are they being told they will get less access if they are hard on it? 

Yes

[Factcheck]

4 hours ago, cedec0 said:

 

People give Feige too much credit.

 

The first twenty films of the MCU were a giant build-up towards Thanos.  When Feige declared before endgame that "Captain Marvel is the most powerful in the MCU", this undercut the build-up  (this isn't about politics, it's about story telling).  A good villain is supposed to be stronger (think the scarlet witch).

 

If Thanos was Feige's baby, he would never have undermined him like that.  The vision behind the MCU was someone else and that person is probably gone.

What Feige shows in the movie matter more than what he says. Captain Marvel didn't come close to kill Thanos, it was Scarlet Witch who almost killed Thanos without much effort. So what you're saying is right in context of Endgame that villain should be most powerful but it was Scarlet Witch who undermines build up not Captain Marvel  because Scarlet Witch was more powerful than Thanos in Endgame so your example is wrong.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Factcheck

[Rebeccas]

6 hours ago, John Marston said:

https://collider.com/thor-love-and-thunder-reactions-reviews-is-it-good/
 

 

cam someone explain how these early reactions are this much more positive than the actual reaction of the film? Are these paid shills? Are they being told they will get less access if they are hard on it? 

They clearly choose the earliest access people based on what their taste aligns with, most of these nerd site critics give most things a positive review… same thing happened with WW84. I think AoU also had a waaay more positive initial reaction with some saying it’s better than the first before real reviews kicked in. 
 

Also I think any sequel to a beloved film gets a lot of people hoping it’s just as good and maybe in denial that it isn’t… 

[charlie Jatinder]

On 7/18/2022 at 3:39 AM, John Marston said:

Marvel thought they could just send actors to party in Australia, call it a movie, and release it to an easy billion. Glad people are pushing back and demanding better 

But it is doing billion level biz. So Marvel right?

[Liiviig 1998]

2 hours ago, charlie Jatinder said:

But it is doing billion level biz. So Marvel right?

You keep saying this  and I personally don't get what you mean?

Is 700-725m in currents markets adjust to 1bn with current ER ?

 

Is it after you add china and missing markets ?

 

Were are your raw numbers to prove this?

 

It has 250m budget and 700m+ WW it will just be fairly profitable which just wouldn't call billie level biz?

 

Business is not just about the raw money ,it's about the profit and return on investment.

Doubt disney will look at it this amount as a good return on investment esp considering the kind of money printing machine the mcu is?

Just stop including china for now ,We can estimate how much it would have made there but the fact is that that money is not  there and hasn't been for two years now for the mcu.

 

Exchange rates are fine to use because they are actually having a tangible effect on box office numbers.

 

At the end of the day  it's 700-725m minus ER adjustments on a 250m budget and that's the stastistic that matters.

 

So yeah DS2 made 954m on a 200m budget  . It was a rousing success and it made around 270m+ the original.

 

The same can't be said for thor 4 though.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Liiviig 1998

[TheDude391]

Taika took everything I dislike about the MCU cranked it to 11 and put it into one of the messiest most incompetently put together blockbusters I've seen in years. There's def been more boring entries but this might be my least fav on account of the SHEER laziness and obnoxiousness on display,

[Hatebox]

21 hours ago, charlie Jatinder said:

But it is doing billion level biz. So Marvel right?

 

Is it?

[reddevil19]

3 hours ago, Hatebox said:

 

Is it?

Obligatory

 

I do get his rationale. I also agree that especially domestically, the sensible expectations would have been for it to do much more. 390-410 would not be an unreasonable expectation. 

And to those saying "yes, and if it were good, it would make that much"... do you not think that's a problem, then? Let's say you don't think this is a sign of the brand deflating and diluting a bit with all the products out there, as well as the WOM from the likes of Eternals and MoM. And you put its underperformance exclusively on the quality. And I would assume you do the same with Eternals (and I suppose there is the idea that, given its opening, MoM should have done more too, so WOM there is an issue as well). So, let's see... how many of these until the brand is tarnished? 

 

Also, it's the kind of ridiculous logic that one would laugh at when applying to BvS. Opens very high, but plummets (while still doing big numbers when looking at them in a vacuum). "Oh, it's only because it was bad. Otherwise it would have done more". Well, ya...but it's an underperformance when looking at the potential and REALISTIC expectations. It's gonna make money, but not as much as it could have, so...it's an underperformer (while still far from a flop). I mean, it's not heresy to say that, right?

[infamous5445]

I can't believe I'm saying this but after watching L&T I'm starting to appreciate Ragnarok more

[charlie Jatinder]

I thought I probably don't need to explain myself after all these years but...

 

Anyways I am thinking $390M INT & $340M DOM for Thor 4 at the moment, i.e. $730M WW. Now the adjustment.

 

First off, ERs. I am gonna take 2019 ERs as normal ER. In current markets the ER adj gross (excluding those markets that have inflation catch up with ER) is $425M approx. 

 

Now for missing markets, Russia, Malaysia, Saudi & Gulf markets are $40M approx. Taking it to $465M. In same set of markets Far From Home did $535M. And if you remove Korea where the major difference between two is, Thor 4 is 90% of FFH.

 

That leaves $195M for China aka 32-33M admits.  Far From Home had 40M admits in China, I think 32M is quite plausible expectations for Love & Thunder.

Edited July 20, 2022 by charlie Jatinder

[Liiviig 1998]

1 hour ago, charlie Jatinder said:

I thought I probably don't need to explain myself after all these years but...

 

Anyways I am thinking $390M INT & $340M DOM for Thor 4 at the moment, i.e. $730M WW. Now the adjustment.

 

First off, ERs. I am gonna take 2019 ERs as normal ER. In current markets the ER adj gross (excluding those markets that have inflation catch up with ER) is $425M approx. 

 

Now for missing markets, Russia, Malaysia, Saudi & Gulf markets are $40M approx. Taking it to $465M. In same set of markets Far From Home did $535M. And if you remove Korea where the major difference between two is, Thor 4 is 90% of FFH.

 

That leaves $195M for China aka 32-33M admits.  Far From Home had 40M admits in China, I think 32M is quite plausible expectations for Love & Thunder.

Ok then so 340/425 

 

Kinda 765m with ER adjustments.

 

Still won't count missing markets because that will not be accounted for on disney ledger bse that's not money earned,it doesn't exist.

 

At the end of the day 730m actual/approx 765m ER adjustments off a 250m budget is not crazy business .