The Batman | March 4, 2022 | Warner Bros. | Certified Fresh on RT | 7th Most Profitable Movie of 2023

[excel1]

55 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Yeah, the idea that Ledger's death was the main reason TDK did so incredibly well is just plain silly.

It is wierd to remember that TDK was almost not greenlighted ; Batman  Begins did not really make the kind of money that Warners had hoped for, and there was a real debate whether or not to continue the franchise.

 

Ahem.

 

A someone who followed the production of both films, from the day Nolan was announced as director, and is basically a box office expert on the time period given how closely I followed/worked with it...

 

THE DARK KNIGHT, with Ledger alive throughout the release, is no doubt a big hit from day 1, before WOM had spread. The expectations were for an opening in the $100m range, which would probably would have increased to $115-120m with actuals. BATMAN BEGINS, though very popular, was not THAT popular. Hell, for summer 2005, Mr. and Mrs. Smith & Charlie & the Chocolate Factory had decidedly better legs than BEGINS. But let use a basic comparison:

 

Pirates 1: $45m weekend/$70m 5-day/$306m total = ELITE legs

Batman 1: $45m weekend/$72m 5-day/$205m total = QUITE GOOD legs

Pirates 2: $136m ow/$435m total

Batman 2: $115m/$325-350m would be a logical, reasonable prediction. WOM would have obviously pushed the total further in reality. 

 

Going into 2008, many analysts expected Indiana Jones 4 to be the biggest film of the summer, with Narnia 2 and Batman to battle it out for 2nd. Obviously that went very differently because Heath Ledger dying changed everything. That was a HUGE pop culture news story, and every single article mentioned his role as The Joker in the upcoming Batman film. Ledger was one of the biggest young stars in the world circa 2000-2001, his star faded dramatically 2002-2005. Brokeback Mountain was already viewed as a "comeback film" for him, and the internet was legendarily outraged (I remember this very well) when his casting announced. His death meant public awareness for the film was basically 100% 6 months before release. It gave WB the unprecedented position of being able to focus solely on building "definite interest". Further, nearly every piece of coverage mentioned Ledger's supposedly unforgettable performance as Joker. With it being his final mainstream film, people were predisposed to view it favorably. That the films quality delivered to the extent that it did was icing on the cake. 

 

It is morbid but also 100% true - Ledger's death was the difference between a $115/120m opener/$360/$380m finisher and the $158m/530m run the film had. For anyone to deny it is ignorant to the facts of the time. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by excel1

[Ozymandias]

7 hours ago, Madhuvan said:

I have a strong feeling this might be BP next year. Box office will pull through and movie definetly gonna be good. 

 

I think its more likely to mirror LOGAN, an unusually great CBM released in March that is no longer generating awards buzz 10 months later when it really matters.

 

2 hours ago, Maggie said:

This will break out of course, but why? What is it about the Batman that has people exicted, especially so soon after not so well received two movies with the Bat? It's possible this will make more than Tom Holland's first Spidey.

 

Short answer: It reminds people of the days. 

 

It looks like a real movie with a voice behind it, not some hodgepodge of nonsense designed to be part of another cinematic universe.

 

 

 

[belblazer]

 

 

 

 

[JWR]

2 hours ago, dudalb said:

I am convinced they were trying to do a over the top intentionally silly, tongue in cheek Batman like the 1966 TV series but they failed spectacularly. The 1966 series was  ...for the first season and the first half of the second Season  often drop dead funny (though after that it went downhill fact..primarily because the core writers for the series left in a dispute over money) but B and R is just plain unfunny.

Camp, silly shows like the 1966 Batman look like they are easy to do, but in reality they are pretry hard to pull off sucessfully.

 

It baffles me that they thought audiences wanted a regression in storytelling only 8 years after the 1989 film broke away from camp.

[Menor the Destroyer]

2 hours ago, WittyUsername said:

It’s kind of funny that Spider-Man needed to interact with other heroes to rejuvenate his franchise, while Batman apparently needs to stay away from the rest of the DC universe. 

Because the DCEU is not popular. If the DCEU was going strong then Batman interacting with it would only benefit the box office.

 

Like imagine if we were coming off smash hit Superman and a really beloved Justice League, this exact same Batman movie, with maybe a couple of references to said films, would be doing even bigger numbers I think. The fact that it still is going to do very well is just because Batman is a very popular character with a high floor, and probably because it feels distinct from the Affleck incarnation (moreso than Holland's felt from Garfield's). 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Menor Reborn

[WittyUsername]

8 minutes ago, JWR said:

 

It baffles me that they thought audiences wanted a regression in storytelling only 8 years after the 1989 film broke away from camp.

There’s plenty of camp in the Tim Burton films. They’re just more gross about it. 

[Lighthouse]

5 hours ago, excel1 said:

 

amazingly

 

4 hours ago, RiddlerXXR said:

As expected. It’s a limited number of shows and all in IMAX/PLF, so they were going to sellout (for the most part). We won’t really know anything significant until the first 24 hours of presales happen (Thursday into Friday) then we can use our comps.

I checked a few shows and since they weren't sold out I thought it wasn't doing good. Thanks

[Knights of Ren]

I’d rather watch a solo batman flick just like I’d rather watch a solo spider man flick.  I’m not here for the big character team ups.  

[Macleod]

28 minutes ago, JWR said:

 

It baffles me that they thought audiences wanted a regression in storytelling only 8 years after the 1989 film broke away from camp.

 

The 89-97 Batman movies are the perfect example of rapid genre evolution and The Hero's Journey as described by Joseph Campbell.  Batman '89: The Monomyth, Batman Returns: The Descent into Hell, Batman Forever: The Return/Rebirth, Batman & Robin: Elevation to the Dream/Heavens 😅    

 

Batman '89 redefines the superhero genre on film and Batman Returns fractures it immediately, which is what's fascinating about it.  Batman Forever attempts a combination of Film 1 and 2, recapturing of heroic ideology, struggling with inner psychology, but pushed into a return to mainstream loopy comic-book villainy -- proving not fully successful at any one area.  Batman & Robin: is what's called "Ironic Hybridization" -- where the form and elements contained within (characters, iconography, narrative) all become self-referential at the expense of the natural order of storytelling.  Batman Begins is the "New Sincerity" -- a return to "authenticity" but with new twists on familiar origin myths.  

 

The same cycle repeated itself during the Zack Snyder years -- only more rapidly.  With "THE BATMAN" -- we are now once again at a "New Sincerity."  Back to the core elements, re-establishing the myth with new twists on familiar themes.  

Edited February 9, 2022 by Macleod

[CloneWars]

when do tickets go on sale

[grey ghost]

17 minutes ago, CloneWars said:

when do tickets go on sale

 

Thursday, the 10th.

 

I'm not sure what time though.

[TheDude391]

2 hours ago, Macleod said:

 

The 89-97 Batman movies are the perfect example of rapid genre evolution and The Hero's Journey as described by Joseph Campbell.  Batman '89: The Monomyth, Batman Returns: The Descent into Hell, Batman Forever: The Return/Rebirth, Batman & Robin: Elevation to the Dream/Heavens 😅    

 

Batman '89 redefines the superhero genre on film and Batman Returns fractures it immediately, which is what's fascinating about it.  Batman Forever attempts a combination of Film 1 and 2, recapturing of heroic ideology, struggling with inner psychology, but pushed into a return to mainstream loopy comic-book villainy -- proving not fully successful at any one area.  Batman & Robin: is what's called "Ironic Hybridization" -- where the form and elements contained within (characters, iconography, narrative) all become self-referential at the expense of the natural order of storytelling.  Batman Begins is the "New Sincerity" -- a return to "authenticity" but with new twists on familiar origin myths.  

 

The same cycle repeated itself during the Zack Snyder years -- only more rapidly.  With "THE BATMAN" -- we are now once again at a "New Sincerity."  Back to the core elements, re-establishing the myth with new twists on familiar themes.  

I'd love to see the director's cut of Forever bc it does come close to capturing the inner psychology but cutting the red book subplot really hampers it.

[grim22]

Since there's debate about whether Batman and Robin was knowingly tongue in cheek or not, I recommend watching this very revealing featurette. It gave rise to the word Toyetic and is basically the entire cast and crew apologizing for 30 minutes straight

 

 

 

[Spidey Freak]

 

[thesmoothknight]

Biggest theater in Europe sold out for their March 1st preview screening.

 

 

[TrevorBelmont9078]

Extremely random info but looks like Kanye West is buying out a theater (and distributing free tickets) for The Batman.

 

He did this for DUNE and TENET before, I believe. 

[Juby]

11 hours ago, excel1 said:

Ahem.

 

A someone who followed the production of both films, from the day Nolan was announced as director, and is basically a box office expert on the time period given how closely I followed/worked with it...

 

THE DARK KNIGHT, with Ledger alive throughout the release, is no doubt a big hit from day 1, before WOM had spread. The expectations were for an opening in the $100m range, which would probably would have increased to $115-120m with actuals. BATMAN BEGINS, though very popular, was not THAT popular. Hell, for summer 2005, Mr. and Mrs. Smith & Charlie & the Chocolate Factory had decidedly better legs than BEGINS. But let use a basic comparison:

 

Pirates 1: $45m weekend/$70m 5-day/$306m total = ELITE legs

Batman 1: $45m weekend/$72m 5-day/$205m total = QUITE GOOD legs

Pirates 2: $136m ow/$435m total

Batman 2: $115m/$325-350m would be a logical, reasonable prediction. WOM would have obviously pushed the total further in reality. 

 

Going into 2008, many analysts expected Indiana Jones 4 to be the biggest film of the summer, with Narnia 2 and Batman to battle it out for 2nd. Obviously that went very differently because Heath Ledger dying changed everything. That was a HUGE pop culture news story, and every single article mentioned his role as The Joker in the upcoming Batman film. Ledger was one of the biggest young stars in the world circa 2000-2001, his star faded dramatically 2002-2005. Brokeback Mountain was already viewed as a "comeback film" for him, and the internet was legendarily outraged (I remember this very well) when his casting announced. His death meant public awareness for the film was basically 100% 6 months before release. It gave WB the unprecedented position of being able to focus solely on building "definite interest". Further, nearly every piece of coverage mentioned Ledger's supposedly unforgettable performance as Joker. With it being his final mainstream film, people were predisposed to view it favorably. That the films quality delivered to the extent that it did was icing on the cake. 

 

It is morbid but also 100% true - Ledger's death was the difference between a $115/120m opener/$360/$380m finisher and the $158m/530m run the film had. For anyone to deny it is ignorant to the facts of the time. 

 

Hmmm.... Bullshit. Every year I hear the same bs.

 

If the second Shrek could have done +65% of the first Shrek domestic run, why Batman couldn't add even more? Batman Begins box office run was only "solid" because: 1) people didn't care about the Batman after Schumacher's B&R; 2) There was no famous villain in it. But!! After the best reviews from any Batman film so far, fantastic grades from the audience (Begins was in Top100 on IMDb) and a cliffhanger, hype for the sequel was huge. Begins DVD-sales was the second biggest from any 2005-film right after Revenge of the Sith, people just stopped carying about the Joel Schumacher's Batman films and wanted new Batman again, and the new Joker (the sequel had the most famous Batman's villain). The very first Batman from 1989 adjusted gross in July 2008 was $445.7 mln - why the new "Batman vs. Joker" showdown with even stronger marketing, better reception and IMAXes couldn't do the same or even more? I remember hype for TDK even in August 2007, or in December 2007 (after the film's prologue before I am Legend and the first trailer) - it was a monster already! Ofc Heath's death add a lot of attention to TDK, but the movie became gigantic succes not due to the fact everyone have heard he's dead, but because the film was fantastic and everyone have heard Heath's performance as the Joker is fenomenal. Anyone tryin' to give specific numbers how much his death add to the film's box office run is wrong. You say 120/380, I can say +140/470. Prove me wrong.

 

_{*Also, 4 years later TDKR with smaller hype, lesser-known villain and worse reception, than TDK did $448 mln DOM even after the tragedy from midnight screening and all the problems it caused to the box office that summer.}

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Juby

[XXR vs XXR]

1 minute ago, Juby said:

Prove me wrong.

You can’t tell someone to prove your unprovable numbers wrong while also calling BS on their numbers. Prove their numbers wrong first. You mentioned Shrek 2 going +65% of the first DOM. TDK doing the same is much closer to his $380M than your number.

[efialtes76]

1 hour ago, thesmoothknight said:

Biggest theater in Europe sold out for their March 1st preview screening.

 

 

The biggest theater in Europe is Kinépolis Madrid.

25 screens,9200 seats.

The biggest screen has 973 seats...

[Juby]

@RiddlerXXR

But I'm not trying to prove he's wrong. I'm saying everyone who's tryin' to do so is wrong, including me.

 

+65% from Shrek 2 is just one example. John Wick 3 did +86% of the JW2 (and Keanu didn't die 7 months before the release date ). Terminator 2 did +500% of the first Terminator run. My point is - such things happens in Box Office all the time. I don't see anything unbeliveble with +260% growth for a Batman seauel. Maybe TDK without Heath's death still could break OW record and gross over $500M domestically, we will never know.

 

The same thing might happen to The Batman. The "right" Batman film could be a break-out hit no matter what. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Juby