The Flash | June 16 2023 | Ezra Miller, Michael Keaton | We’re stoping the count at a Nice 69% RT (it’s 72% For Real) | Please Remember that Your Enjoyment Of The Film is Not Based On Others Opinions And To Be Nice To Each Other

[AniNate]

I don't hate Anthony Ramos so there's that

[21C]

4 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

I get it, but man I just also do not get it lol. Like, Transformers is a completely tired franchise and this new one brought almost literally nothing new to the table and had super strong audience reactions/walkups. I'd love to actually know why Flash just isn't clicking? Is it because there was an 8 season long show? Is it because of the ZS baggage? I have a really hard time thinking it's the VFX when everything in the trailers/tv spots (which the majority of the population would see, rather than the clips) is mostly fine.

 

I'm seeing it on Thursday, and obviously it's not like it's going to be a continuing series. It's just a bummer to see it faltering like this. Especially since it has decent reviews, the Batman aspect, etc etc.

The thing is that every time one of those things have been released, there's been genuinely hundreds and I mean hundreds of comments on Twitter mocking how bad the CGI is and pointing it out. It has been extremely noticeable in all of their marketing material. I do think it's playing a factor here. Is it THE factor? No, but it's been clearly affecting reception somewhat. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by 21C

[Mulder]

The things everyone keeps mentioning is Ezra's antics behind the scenes, the CGI, and just it not looking good. Critical reviews that are kind of mediocre only reinforces it. Absolutely nobody's saying "I hated Zack Snyder so I'm not seeing this.". 

[LVB]

The movie was so overhyped that now that the nerds know it's not perfect they're trashing it all over social media. Plus, we've heard reactions for so many weeks now, that it seems like its cultural peak has already passed and the movie hasn't even been released yet.

[ZattMurdock]

26 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

I get it, but man I just also do not get it lol. Like, Transformers is a completely tired franchise and this new one brought almost literally nothing new to the table and had super strong audience reactions/walkups. I'd love to actually know why Flash just isn't clicking? Is it because there was an 8 season long show? Is it because of the ZS baggage? I have a really hard time thinking it's the VFX when everything in the trailers/tv spots (which the majority of the population would see, rather than the clips) is mostly fine.

 

I'm seeing it on Thursday, and obviously it's not like it's going to be a continuing series. It's just a bummer to see it faltering like this. Especially since it has decent reviews, the Batman aspect, etc etc.

It opens in my town next week iirc and I will watch it during that weekend, but I’d argue that the problem here is that it’s angling heavy for nostalgia with a character that is barely known for the audiences and that most of all the general audiences don’t have any actual attachment with. It’s a multiverse movie featuring a Flash played by an actor famous for doing some heinous shit last years, an old Batman and a brand new Supergirl, it’s just an uphill battle and a hard sell, in my opinion. 
 

Transformers might suck for you and me, and trust me I have no interest on seeing Transformers, but there is an actual built in audience with people that love those films and characters. Flash is a DC film that would be a tough sell even without the baggage. Add the fact that we just had two successful and beloved superhero films - and I’d argue that some of the best of the genre - back to back with one of them taking the whole genre to class on how to properly conceive a multiverse story that satisfies both the GA and the hardcore superhero and comic book fans and it’s, well, mission impossible. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[ChipDerby]

32 minutes ago, 21C said:

The thing is that every time one of those things have been released, there's been genuinely hundreds and I mean hundreds of comments on Twitter mocking how bad the CGI is and pointing it out. It has been extremely noticeable in all of their marketing material. I do think it's playing a factor here. Is it THE factor? No, but it's been clearly affecting reception somewhat. 

 

I could say the same thing about 90% of blockbusters these days though, regarding CGI (Avatar as the exception)

[GambitPool]

I do wonder if this being the 4th Multiverse comic book film in 2 and a half years has maybe burned people out on the concept - especially when a widely praised multiverse comic film just released 2 weeks ago. 

 

Then we have to consider what characters they are using. 

 

NWH was gonna be huge anyways as Tom's is beloved and growing bigger. Adding in two generations of fans with the Raimi trilogy and Garfield's two films was a massive bonus. Audiences would've accepted any concept with all those characters together. 

 

Multiverse of Madness was riding off NWH hype. Then they had a multitude of rumored characters appearing that sent hype onto overdrive (and disappointment lol). The film wasn't afraid of showing of Prof X which made people think we were getting some crazy cameos. 

 

Across the Spider-Verse had everything going for it. 5 years of goodwill and hype from ItSV. Incredible artwork. Stellar reviews. Rumors of Tom, Tobey, and Andrew with every animated Spidey also rumored. 

 

Flash though... Flash has Keaton and Supergirl - who's played by a newcomer with no pre-established connection. Keaton can't carry everything on his own. He's not even the beloved Batman of the past 18 years. That'd go to Bale. Also, this may be the biggest factor against it, the title character really isn't cared about by the general public. Flash showed up in a legendary bomb and a fan-driven director's cut that did low numbers on HBO Max after years of demand and build-up. 

 

Doesn't help the lead actor can't do promotion for their own film. 

[ChipDerby]

26 minutes ago, Mulder said:

The things everyone keeps mentioning is Ezra's antics behind the scenes, the CGI, and just it not looking good. Critical reviews that are kind of mediocre only reinforces it. Absolutely nobody's saying "I hated Zack Snyder so I'm not seeing this.". 

 

Hyperbole is off the charts my dude. 

[Mulder]

Just now, ChipDerby said:

 

Hyperbole is off the charts my dude. 

If you can find me one person who's not seeing this because of Zack Snyder I'll relent.

[ChipDerby]

Nah

[21C]

11 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

I could say the same thing about 90% of blockbusters these days though, regarding CGI (Avatar as the exception)

/You/ could say that you think the CGI in this is as bad as in any other blockbuster, but nah man, the visuals in this have clearly gotten a worse reception than most blockbusters though. When Guardians of the Galaxy trailers released, or Black Panther 2 trailers released, I don't remember there being as much criticism over the CGI as The Flash has received. Black Panther 2 received some in its later TV spots, but not to the same scale as Flash in all its marketing material so far. 

[Ohana]

Is it true? last time I saw It was 70k behind The Batman

 

#TheFlash is outgrossing #TheBatman in presales in China! pic.twitter.com/bhw7ZM6ShQ

— Home of DCU (@homeofdcu) June 12, 2023

Edited June 12, 2023 by Ohana
spelling mistake

[AJG]

Honestly I am just stumped by the projections for this thing. Normally I’m able to at least put together some reasons why a film like this could underperform, but here - this movie has everything going for it and it just isn’t popping off.

 

I do wonder if there would be some benefit advertising the movie as a finale, “The End of DC!”. The big Endgame conclusion. From the ads I don’t think most people would know that this film resets the franchise.

[Ohana]

1 minute ago, AJG said:

Honestly I am just stumped by the projections for this thing. Normally I’m able to at least put together some reasons why a film like this could underperform, but here - this movie has everything going for it and it just isn’t popping off.

 

I do wonder if there would be some benefit advertising the movie as a finale, “The End of DC!”. The big Endgame conclusion. From the ads I don’t think most people would know that this film resets the franchise.

I think the general audience is assuming it's yet another CBM like Shazam / Black Adam.
Add to that the Superhero movies fatigue that even Marvel is effected by and here we are...
Most people aren't aware like us so I think WoM will be crucial here, but It sure feels like the golden age of CBM is behind us. 
DC's reboot in 2025 will be a real case of late to the party.

[John Marston]

8 minutes ago, AJG said:

Honestly I am just stumped by the projections for this thing. Normally I’m able to at least put together some reasons why a film like this could underperform, but here - this movie has everything going for it and it just isn’t popping off.

 

I do wonder if there would be some benefit advertising the movie as a finale, “The End of DC!”. The big Endgame conclusion. From the ads I don’t think most people would know that this film resets the franchise.

Because it doesn’t have much going for it and people fooled themselves into thinking it did 

 

[Mulder]

Just now, John Marston said:

Because it doesn’t have much going for it and people fooled themselves into thinking it did 

 

Everyone got on you for it, but I also think your prediction of Keaton Batman not having as much pull as people thought he would was right.

[JWR]

3 minutes ago, Ohana said:

I think the general audience is assuming it's yet another CBM like Shazam / Black Adam.
Add to that the Superhero movies fatigue that even Marvel is effected by and here we are...
Most people aren't aware like us so I think WoM will be crucial here, but It sure feels like the golden age of CBM is behind us. 
DC's reboot in 2025 will be a real case of late to the party.

 

Superhero movie fatigue isn't a thing. At least not to the extent some here think it is.

[TheDude391]

I think a proper Burton Batman legacy sequel would've had more appeal than this. Because it's aimed at the younger audiences with no Keaton nostalgia, and older audiences who might go for Keaton don't care about this multiverse stuff. Ends up not really drawing either.

[ZattMurdock]

15 minutes ago, Ohana said:

I think the general audience is assuming it's yet another CBM like Shazam / Black Adam.
Add to that the Superhero movies fatigue that even Marvel is effected by and here we are...
Most people aren't aware like us so I think WoM will be crucial here, but It sure feels like the golden age of CBM is behind us. 
DC's reboot in 2025 will be a real case of late to the party.

Spider-Man: No Way Home made $2B during an ongoing pandemic one year and half ago. There is no superhero fatigue, like Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3 and Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse are proving to us.

 

Chris Miller hits the nail in the head here:

 

 

Not only that, WB and DC fans would be crazy to expect anything close to what Spider-Man: No Way Home for a Flash film with literally 0 build up. No Way Home was a 20 years in the making pay off featuring the 3 live iterations of Peter Parker and culminating after Avengers: Endgame, it was a snowball of a perfect storm. For DC to reach this sort of highs, they need proper build up, proper planning, not just cling to rush whatever the MCU is doing. Starting a Flash film by making it a multiverse story is a tough sell not because it’s novel, it’s because it has been done in the past with characters that people actually care about.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[AJG]

16 minutes ago, Mulder said:

Everyone got on you for it, but I also think your prediction of Keaton Batman not having as much pull as people thought he would was right.

 

They killed me for saying this too. They called me too young to understand.

 

I’m sorry but they’re Batman films directed by Tim Burton, where Jack Nicholson played The Joker, soundtracked by Prince, and they don’t hold much cultural recollection aside from the occasional Pfeiffer Catwoman Halloween costumes. That’s just strange. I kinda blame the Schumacher films. 90’s Cartoon Batman is probably more significant. 
 

If this were Nolan’s Batman I imagine interest would be way bigger. Especially amongst the 30 and under crowd. Someone that was 13 when Burtons Batman came out would be almost 50 years old today. I don’t think the elderly should be the prime market for these things.

Edited June 12, 2023 by AJG