Steve Rogers Birthday Bash Weekend Thread | 5-Day #s: Indy 83.4, Elemental 18, Spidey 17.65, Sound of Freedom 14.2, No Hard Feelings 11.3

[rebelscum86]

1 hour ago, JustLurking said:

TLJ is so weird, in terms of direction snd cinematography it is by far the best SW endeavor but storywise everything except the kylo and rey plots is just really stupid imho

 

but none of it really mattered as much as the real shitshow in the trilogy which is that it had no cohesion, it was 3 films where each one tried to undo what its predecessor did. the fact that this was allowed is hilarious.

 

fwiw, one of my main pet peeves with the ST is how uninventive it is. the prequel trilogy had 2 films that were laughably bad in all ways of film making, be it direction, story, script, or acting, but they still setup some good pieces of lore. the ST feels almost afraid to even try.

 

I whole-heartedly disagree. Acting is abysmal but narrative directing is good. Rewatched PT rcently for the kids, and was shocked how much I like TPM. After a decade of directionless action as exposition and protagonist who win by getting angry and hitting harder instead of something that was set up earlier in the script, TPM was a breath of fresh air. And the pod race is one of the finest things ever filmed, especially the sound editing.

[Boxx93]

4 hours ago, screambaby said:

Pretty sure it was solo.

 

Another of things I can get past but han and chewie in the shower scarred me

That scene and the annoying activist droid killed all my enthusiasm for SW or anything Lucasfilm made ever since. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Boxx93

[Krissykins]

6 hours ago, BestPicturePlutoNash said:

Saw the Joy Ride sneak preview tonight...

 

If this and No Hard Feelings are meant to revive the theatrical studio comedy.... well, let's not cancel the funeral just yet

 

(But what do I know? The theater was going insane throughout. But I miss when comedies had... comedy. And not "jokes" about how white a show Friends was or sprinkling profanity into every sentence. The raunchy comedy died 10 years ago, let it rest. Apatow, Todd Phillips, the Farrelly Bros, Ben Stiller.. they all did!)

Glad to hear it got a good reaction, the trailer always does. Not sure how well it’ll do though. 

[scytheavatar]

3 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

TFA was their only real success imo, it successfully relaunched Star Wars and was liked by pretty much everyone at the time before it became apparent nobody had a coherent vision for the trilogy with the 2nd and 3rd movies.  Yes, it was a safe retro movie but they didn't really have a choice after the PT. 

 

TFA was the beginning of the end of Disney Star Wars........ it was the one chance to set the tone for everything afterwards, tell the world how Disney Star Wars will be different from George Lucas era Star Wars. And they chose the creativity bankrupt route which means we could expect that from every Star Wars afterwards. The PT was a mess but ended in a strong note with RoTS so to blame the PT for Disney being cowards is nothing short of nonsense.

[Issac Newton]

 

@The GOAT

[FunkMiller]

I see the Lucasfilm post mortem has begun again.

 

Take the politics out of it, and it’s plain to see that while Kennedy’s run as studio head hasn’t been a disaster because she champions female characters… it very much has been a disaster because she’s terrible when it comes to planning, storytelling and character. Absolutely woeful. What kind of idiot starts a Star Wars trilogy without having a plan for the whole thing?

Fans or YouTubers haven’t destroyed Lucasfilm. Kennedy has. Hopefully someone will realise this after this latest flop and do something about it.

[scytheavatar]

2 hours ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

New trilogy and DC are the worst examples of fan culture and internet trolls driving execs into panic mode. If KK and Lucasfilm had stood by TLJ and seen the set up through in the final film, the discussion around the films would be very different right now.

 

Ditto for DC where execs bailed TWICE on the leadership's plans (Snyder and Hamada respectively) at the worst possible moment.

 

Question though, what exactly was TLJ setting up? The last movie of the trilogy was always in big trouble precisely because the second movie was doing nothing but tearing down everything the first movie was setting up. You think the audience would have wanted to watch Rey beat Kylo like once again?

 

JJ had the right idea when he wanted to make one more movie. So that he can have a 3rd movie set up things to be resolved in the 4th one. Alas the Disney and Lucasfilm leadership were too short sighted and incompetent to see that was the only option.

[MightyDargon]

Raunchy comedies died because there's only so far you can push the envelope until it actually grosses out the audience.

[JustLurking]

2 hours ago, rebelscum86 said:

 

I whole-heartedly disagree. Acting is abysmal but narrative directing is good. Rewatched PT rcently for the kids, and was shocked how much I like TPM. After a decade of directionless action as exposition and protagonist who win by getting angry and hitting harder instead of something that was set up earlier in the script, TPM was a breath of fresh air. And the pod race is one of the finest things ever filmed, especially the sound editing.

To each their own I guess? TPM is a disaster of a film imho, it's filled with some of the worst comedy relief I've ever seen in a film if not the worst, plot elements that are criminally underutilised (i.e. the queen double) or just plain lame stuff (i.e. midichlorian), bad dialogue and obviously terrible acting, though I don't really blame the actors for it since they are going off a ridiculous script and poor directing. That's not to say there isn't salvageable stuff in it (namely the darth maul fight and the pod race to a degree), but as a whole...yeah.

 

What I do give it and especially AotC credit for is setting up cool lore stuff that will end up better utilised in other works, but as films they do not work at all.

Edited July 2, 2023 by JustLurking

[scytheavatar]

2 minutes ago, FunkMiller said:

I see the Lucasfilm post mortem has begun again.

 

Take the politics out of it, and it’s plain to see that while Kennedy’s run as studio head hasn’t been a disaster because she champions female characters… it very much has been a disaster because she’s terrible when it comes to planning, storytelling and character. Absolutely woeful. What kind of idiot starts a Star Wars trilogy without having a plan for the whole thing?

Fans or YouTubers haven’t destroyed Lucasfilm. Kennedy has. Hopefully someone will realise this after this latest flop and do something about it.

 

She did have a plan. What we saw was the plan in action, the first film was supposed to reset everything to what it once was. Second film was supposed to go off the rails and third film was supposed to end in an epic if not nonsensical manner. The directors were chosen to execute that plan. Of course stuff like the death of Fisher was unfortunate and threw a spanner to the works, but let's not pretend Kennedy and her team didn't know what they wanted. It's just a question of whether that plan made sense.

[George Parr]

33 minutes ago, scytheavatar said:

 

Question though, what exactly was TLJ setting up? The last movie of the trilogy was always in big trouble precisely because the second movie was doing nothing but tearing down everything the first movie was setting up. You think the audience would have wanted to watch Rey beat Kylo like once again?

 

JJ had the right idea when he wanted to make one more movie. So that he can have a 3rd movie set up things to be resolved in the 4th one. Alas the Disney and Lucasfilm leadership were too short sighted and incompetent to see that was the only option.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with reality...

 

No, TLJ most definately did not "tear down everything the first movie set up". That's just the usual lazy attempt at "criticism" that ignores what is actually happening in the movies. You might be confusing that with not doing what you wanted to see, which is something else entirely.

The first movie did not set a specific path. It offered broad strokes that could have gone in many different ways, while purposefully avoiding anything that was too definitive. That was the entire point, leave everything as open as possible. There was only a very limited number of things TFA set up clearly. The Republic basically being decapitated and its fleet being destroyed for one. The First Order having suffered a setback but not being defeated yet. Han Solo being dead. Rey and Kylo Ren being the main protagonist / antagonist the story would revolve around. The heroes being split up for the next adventure. Luke leaving everything behind because he blamed himself for what happened. TLJ did follow that to the letter.

 

And where does this idea that JJ Abrams pushed for a four sequel even come from?

That sounds more like clickbait rubbish from the usual "sources" than something JJ Abrams actually asked for.

Edited July 2, 2023 by George Parr

[scytheavatar]

7 minutes ago, George Parr said:

That has nothing whatsoever to do with reality...

 

No, TLJ most definately did not "tear down everything the first movie set up". That's just the usual lazy attempt at "criticism" that ignores what is actually happening in the movies. You might be confusing that with not doing what you wanted to see, which is something else entirely.

The first movie did not set a specific path. It offered broad strokes that could have gone in many different ways, while purposefully avoiding anything that was too definitive. That was the entire point, leave everything as open as possible. There was only a very limited number of things TFA set up clearly. The Republic basically being decapitated and its fleet being destroyed for one. The First Order having suffered a setback but not being defeated yet. Han Solo being dead. Rey and Kylo Ren being the main protagonist / antagonist the story would revolve around. The heroes being split up for the next adventure. Luke leaving everything behind because he blamed himself for what happened. TLJ did follow that to the letter.

 

And where does this idea that JJ Abrams pushed for a four sequel even come from?

That sounds more like clickbait rubbish from the usual "sources" than something JJ Abrams actually asked for.

 

TLJ killed Snoke and went out of the way to paint Kylo as not a villain........  at the point who the fuck can be the antagonist? Like even if we accept Kylo as the "main antagonist" then why would anyone be excited to see him get his ass kicked by Rey, when we have already seen it?

 

And I forget where that JJ pushing for a forth sequel came from, but it definitely happened and was from one of his interviews. Too lazy to dig it out.

Edited July 2, 2023 by scytheavatar

[efialtes76]

11 hours ago, DAR said:

We didn’t deserve that summer.

The biggest flop that Summer was The Last Action Hero.

A fantastic movie imo.

Edited July 2, 2023 by efialtes76

[setna]

I think Ford is not the person to decide this.  Force Awakens was made for a company called Disney and they decide what to do with its product.
Of course Ford could decide not to participate if the character don´t die, but Disney could decide, then, not to hire Ford, and Keep Han Solo alive,.
 

Han Solo is an all time hero, and this kind of heroes can´t die, at least this is how i feel it. Bad for Disney to accept that from Ford.

[Liiviig 1998]

1 hour ago, scytheavatar said:

 

Question though, what exactly was TLJ setting up? The last movie of the trilogy was always in big trouble precisely because the second movie was doing nothing but tearing down everything the first movie was setting up. You think the audience would have wanted to watch Rey beat Kylo like once again?

 

JJ had the right idea when he wanted to make one more movie. So that he can have a 3rd movie set up things to be resolved in the 4th one. Alas the Disney and Lucasfilm leadership were too short sighted and incompetent to see that was the only option.

JJ did set the ball rolling with safe rehash but for at least characters Kylo, Rey,Finn were solid characters and they were some interesting threads they could use going forward. TLJ either throws them out the window or give boring lazy answers .

 

As normie at the time was excited to get more lore on the first order, more on Finn and the storm stroppers, Luke and Rey training  .... but what we got  was a movie so obsessed with disconstructing the past instead of giving us answers ,character and plot development. 

The only thing I liked was the conclusion to Rey's parentage, the rest is pretty much underdeveloped or unnecessary.

Kylo's arc in this was pointless.

 

First act. Kylo destroys his mask signifying his transition from tantrum crybaby and casting away his idolization of vadar

 

Third act. He tells Rey to let the past die and do away with the whole empire -rebel shit and they unify to form something different . Interesting and this is where the movie should have ended. But we'll they had to fuck it up.

 

2nd third act. Kylo is a tantrum crybaby again at  hoth ,wait sorry it's crait and don't worry it's covered by salt!! . And it's rebel vs empire again at the end....

 

What a waste of time.

 

TLJ basically pays lip service to trying to give us something new but in the end it's still the same fanservice unieventive story telling while destroying previous plot threads and character development .

 

The whole point of deconstruction is to break something and to mold it into something new

 

but TLJ deconstructs and molds it to the same thing again but worse some parts are damaged, or in the wrong place (world,force and Jedi training,character potrayals, ignoring previous plot threads) and it's all a mess.

 

Note: some of the criticisms here are after my second viewing after watching the whole saga.

 

On my first watch as  a normie it was mid and dissapointing (6/10).

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Liiviig 1998

[BadOlCatSylvester]

I feel like another problem plaguing Indy 5 is the fact that its target demographic, old men, just don't go to the movies anymore. And the ones who do nowadays don't care about an old-timey dormant brand like Indy. This is the same problem Bond faced a couple of years back, and Indy 5 is set to open in the same vicinity as that. Hopefully Warner is taking serious notes and will keep the budget under control by the time Bee2lejuice starts filming.

[Brainbug]

Star Wars makes me really sad.

 

Back in 2015, before TFA came out, it was one of the most hype moments of my life up to that point. Everyone around me was excited as hell for the new Star Wars movie. The cinemas bursted of people like ive never seen it before. TFA was a true event. And then i saw it and ... i really liked it! I would be lying if i said otherwise. I always thought: "For this first one, theyre playing it safe and theyre laying the groundwork for the more ambitious things to come in the sequels."

 

Now, in 2023, Star Wars is to a certain degree dead to me. I still really love the Original Trilogy, i have a new big appreciation for the PT despite all their flaws and i actually do still like Rogue One a lot as well as the first season of The Mandalorian. But everything else - be it TLJ (which i loved when it came out and the more i thought about it over the years, the more i disliked it), TROS, the god-awful show of Boba Fett, the boring Mandalorian sequels ... theres 0 hype left for Star Wars for me.

 

Star Wars was once my third favourite franchise. Now ... i dont care anymore. Disney has succeeded in ruining it atleast for me.

[Zakiyyah6]

5 hours ago, Rebeccas said:

What I don't get is why they didn't get an appealing younger actor to pair with Harrison Ford. A Tom Holland type would've made so much sense and could've helped bridge the generation gap. Phoebe Waller Bridge is now several years removed from Fleabag (an acclaimed but kind of niche show) and she really hasn't done anything of note since. 

I thought the same thing. I like PWB (I thought her character was nothing special but it was okay) but she was not going to help sell Indy 5 to anyone. Her being chosen to co-lead the film is baffling to me. 

[Liiviig 1998]

1 hour ago, George Parr said:

That has nothing whatsoever to do with reality...

 

No, TLJ most definately did not "tear down everything the first movie set up". That's just the usual lazy attempt at "criticism" that ignores what is actually happening in the movies. You might be confusing that with not doing what you wanted to see, which is something else entirely.

The first movie did not set a specific path. It offered broad strokes that could have gone in many different ways, while purposefully avoiding anything that was too definitive. That was the entire point, leave everything as open as possible. There was only a very limited number of things TFA set up clearly. The Republic basically being decapitated and its fleet being destroyed for one. The First Order having suffered a setback but not being defeated yet. Han Solo being dead. Rey and Kylo Ren being the main protagonist / antagonist the story would revolve around. The heroes being split up for the next adventure. Luke leaving everything behind because he blamed himself for what happened. TLJ did follow that to the letter.

 

And where does this idea that JJ Abrams pushed for a four sequel even come from?

That sounds more like clickbait rubbish from the usual "sources" than something JJ Abrams actually asked for.

Everything to do with first order , give us absolutely nothing about snoke and how first order rose up 

knights of Ren is straight thrown out. 

 

Don't give me the OT didn't do that. Those where the original films ,the story set up was designed that way and we didn't need to ask those questions. But in Rotj empire was defeated .

 

TFA and TLJ are sequels to that movie. Just because TFA didn't do it doesn't take the blame from TLJ either . They both shoulder the blame for not answering world building questions.

 

This above was the problem with the ST ,they wanted payoffs but didn't want to work for the set up and development.

 

Now to continue . Finn is completely cast aside and basically reduced to a side character. Anything to do with him being the first defecting stormtrooper is forgotten and thrown out until that dumb fight with phasma another pointless  character.

 

Everything to do with Luke is lazy writing . They 180 the character and the substance to show is just two miniscule flashbacks . Luke in Rotj with the rebels dying and vadar who has done so many attrocities fighting him choses not to kill vadar and instead looks to redeem him .Jump to present " Kylo his nephew  sleeping ,bad thoughts and Luke draws his lightsaber!!

 

Don't have a problem with Luke being a fallen hero but the setup was beyond sloppy and just turns him into pathetic coward.

And to think what turned him is Yoda just coming down and saying

"  failure is the best teacher"(theme over substance) and not his friends and sister dying at the hands of the first order .

 

Luke 's arc is not character development but character assassination instead IMO.

 

Other than Rey parentage . TLJ is either throwing or ignoring plot points or give lazy answers to the set ups.

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Liiviig 1998

[Joel M]

After reading the last few pages, I gotta say I'm glad TLJ ruined so many peoples childhoods. Kinda deserved.