Dune: Part Two (2024)

[dudalb]

24 minutes ago, ZackM said:

20,000+ years in the future.  10,000 years after the Butlerian Jihad/Spacing Guild.

I stand corrected.

[excel1]

3 hours ago, BoxOfficeZ said:

 

Literally Stilgar the whole movie. Made for a wonderful hypeman. 

 

*Paul trips a branch*

Stilgar: A brilliant move! This is exactly what the Messiah would do

 

Anton Chigurh was the only person in the film who looked to be having an ounce of fun, probably bc he was just waiting for Josh Brolin roll up.

[BoxOfficeZ]

2 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

Anton Chigurh was the only person in the film who looked to be having an ounce of fun, probably bc he was just waiting for Josh Brolin roll up.

 

Bardem did a great job of bringing that funny uncle energy to the movie. I didn't knowhe had comedic chops. Much needed comic relief for a heavy film. 

 

But what starts out humorous eventually makes you realize into that they're all fundamentalist fanatics at the end of the day. His transformation into an unquestioning follower at the end was complete. 

[vale9001]

7 hours ago, von Kenni said:

Yeah, wanna echo on this.

 

In a larger context I don't either like how the story is tried to be framed in this way or talking about white saviors (more with Part 1) or such in some parts of ecosphere which in my opinion is diminishing the nuances and depth of what Herbert tried to convey and make it into a one dimensional childish modern day representation. I saw that a bit in how Chani's and Paul's relatio ship was portrayed in the film, even though I tried to remind that they both are still late teenagers with moods...but still.

 

Villenuve understood what can make dune relevant for a modern audience...the metaphor of colonialism, the west vs east tensions, the discussion if women at Power would change the world and command It in a new way could make It better after millenia of men's Power (It's fascinating the idea secretly women have controlled the politics of an universe to have finally a man ..represents their powers and under their control). It makes this the centre of the story.

 

Imo anything else is too much about the political strategies between the houses, clonations, space travels, people with mental powers for a modern audience is too much derivative.

What makes this movie so loved and impactful is It's almost like watching Lawrence d'arabia, a real history movie, and not "another star wars- star Trek". 

You don't need to really explain the power of the Spice (basically the movies don't) cause what people need to understand to enjoy this specific version of the story is spice is a metaphor of petrolium-oil. And they just got It from the context.

Edited March 7 by vale9001

[Liiviig 1998]

Explaining more about the spice wouldn't really be that difficult. Even with the spacing guild ,they still would have simplified it 

 

It has life extension properties,expands consciousness and helps in interstellar travel.

 

Watched 1984 dune (the spicediver cut) yesterday . Not a great movie but explains certain aspects of the world better.

 

Spice and hints of butlerian jihad would have sceamed through in well placed exposition.

 

For spacing guild and great houses. That's definitely being left for messiah so didn't mind.

 

Dennis pretty great God job in adapting the dune story . He focuses on the main theme of the whole story. Captures the aesthetics,culture  and visual splendor the world.

 

1984 gets bogged down in covering much of the adaptation as from the book,second half is rushed as hell and completely misses on the major theme of religious fanaticism and danger of messiahs . That movie is so unpalatable for GA .

[eddyxx]

Did GRRM get any inspiration for AGOT from Dune? These 2 Dune movies feel like a sci fi game of thrones to me. Just needed some boobs lol.

[vale9001]

2 hours ago, eddyxx said:

Did GRRM get any inspiration for AGOT from Dune? These 2 Dune movies feel like a sci fi game of thrones to me. Just needed some boobs lol.

 

Well probably. The plot of starks going to Kings landing cause Ned Stark becames the Hand of the king...despite him and his wife smelling the risk could be a conspiracy and they don't trust about their enemies the lannisters...but the honour comes First for Ned...all the family leaves home and goes there and then he ends like he ends....well seems the same ehm... very similar 😇

Edited March 7 by vale9001

[Daxtreme]

https://ew.com/how-dune-part-two-handles-alia-jessica-pregnancy-8599667

 

"Dune Director Was Super Impressed With Anya Taylor-Joy And Florence Pugh. I love her [Taylor-Joy]. I would love to make Dune Messiah just to work with her and Florence more. They give me chills and the will to do another one.”

 

 

Me too, Denis. Me too...

[Inceptionzq]

On 3/4/2024 at 9:59 AM, ZackM said:

The Fear the Moment scene has been occupying 90% of my brain space for a week now.

Watched it again last night, man this scene is so good. It will also be occupying most of my brain space for the foreseeable future

[lilmac]

Outstanding. I have seen it 5x already. Acting, direction, action, pace, structure, cinematography - all on point. A couple of minor nitpicks: 1) I thought the Zimmer score was a step down but still excellent. 2) Chani's hostility towards Paul towards the end were a tad overdone. It seemed like the filmmakers were attempting to mitigate the "white messiah" trope with a cynical 'native' character. Yet in the books, Chani did have internal struggles between Paul and her people (Fremen), so i'll give the movie half a pass. But no, I didn’t like the Chani hostility. And there was too much of her (but I guess Hollywood can’t have the last shot be on a non diverse person nowadays,can they?). Overall though, I have enjoyed Dune 2 more and more upon repeated viewings.

While it may not quite reach the heights of Part 1, it's 95% as good, and stands as one of the finest cinematic experiences of the past decade.

 

[Daxtreme]

The last shot of the movie is literally anyone but Paul because as Denis said, as soon as Paul wakes up from drinking the blue water, we are done following things from his perspective. 

 

He is now a stranger to us. It's almost not the same character, so changed he is. We see the remainder of his actions through the lens of other people until the end of the movie. His perspective is lost to us. It's fully intentional.

 

So no one remains but Chani to end the movie on. She's the second emotional core of the movie, so she's the only logical choice at this point. It has nothing to do with diversity. And I don't think Denis is afraid of the white messiah thing. He has already done great work showing us how terrifying a figure Paul is at the end here, before the 3rd movie is even made (which doesn't portray Paul in a positive light)

 

But you are right, what a terrific movie. Going a 2nd time in IMAX this week. I haven't had an experience in theaters like this in years. Must repeat! As written... 

 

Edited March 10 by Daxtreme

[Elessar]

As much as i loved the movie i share the sentiment that the last 30 minutes felt rushed. I have not read the books and i felt Paul's "transformation" wasn't really earned. From reluctant messiah swept up in the events he seemingly out of nowhere goes all bonkers and wants to rule the galaxy. Don't drink water that is blue, it's bad for you, i guess.

Edited March 11 by Elessar

[Daxtreme]

You have to understand that he instantly saw the 10000 years of his genetic line, his fate, his ancestors, the past, the future. The infinite present. He is now an omniscient being. It is inescapable. It's a bit of determinism too.

 

"Paul" dies when he drinks that blue liquid. Whoever comes out... is the Kwisatz Haderach. Doomed to be trapped in his destiny that he can't escape from.

 

I thought the movie explained it just enough for me, but I understand how it can be confusing. 

[Elessar]

5 hours ago, Daxtreme said:

You have to understand that he instantly saw the 10000 years of his genetic line, his fate, his ancestors, the past, the future. The infinite present. He is now an omniscient being. It is inescapable. It's a bit of determinism too.

 

"Paul" dies when he drinks that blue liquid. Whoever comes out... is the Kwisatz Haderach. Doomed to be trapped in his destiny that he can't escape from.

 

I thought the movie explained it just enough for me, but I understand how it can be confusing. 

 

If he knows all the possible futures then wouldn't he also know how to prevent it? How to prevent millions from dying? Why can't he escape from destiny?  Terminator taught me "There's no fate but what we make for ourselves". 

 

Edited March 11 by Elessar

[Daxtreme]

The movie also explains this, although the books go into more detail. If he does nothing, an even worse fate awaits the universe.

...We'll have to trust his word on this one 

But also, the path he chooses is the only path where he gets everything he wants. Revenge, among others.

 

We'll see in Dune 3 if Denis changes anything with that, but it's the gist of it. There are other futures, but they are of no interest to him.

 

Edited March 11 by Daxtreme

[ZackM]

On 3/10/2024 at 11:28 PM, Daxtreme said:

You have to understand that he instantly saw the 10000 years of his genetic line, his fate, his ancestors, the past, the future. The infinite present. He is now an omniscient being. It is inescapable. It's a bit of determinism too.

 

"Paul" dies when he drinks that blue liquid. Whoever comes out... is the Kwisatz Haderach. Doomed to be trapped in his destiny that he can't escape from.

 

I thought the movie explained it just enough for me, but I understand how it can be confusing. 

 

To be clear, Paul is not omniscient.  He can not see everything.  The book explicitly states that just as our eyes can not see beyond a mountain when you stand in a valley, prescient sight is also not absolute.  He also can't see other prescient beings, like guild navigators.

 

 

On 3/11/2024 at 4:50 AM, Elessar said:

If he knows all the possible futures then wouldn't he also know how to prevent it? How to prevent millions from dying? Why can't he escape from destiny?  Terminator taught me "There's no fate but what we make for ourselves". 

 

Paul is a product of his environment.  He believes he has a legitimate claim to the throne and he's willing to use the power of the Fremen to make that claim and destroy those that have betrayed him.  In his mind, the Jihad is an unfortunate byproduct that he reluctantly accepts because any path that prevents the Jihad also prevents him from claiming the throne.  This is why he's an anti-hero and not a villain.  In a vacuum, his actions against those who betrayed him are justified, and those people are more traditional villains that deserve to be destroyed.  But, he has prescience and knows the results will be catastrophic, thus he is not a hero.

[MOVIEGUY]

On 3/19/2024 at 1:17 PM, ZackM said:

 

To be clear, Paul is not omniscient.  He can not see everything.  The book explicitly states that just as our eyes can not see beyond a mountain when you stand in a valley, prescient sight is also not absolute.  He also can't see other prescient beings, like guild navigators.

 

 

 

Paul is a product of his environment.  He believes he has a legitimate claim to the throne and he's willing to use the power of the Fremen to make that claim and destroy those that have betrayed him.  In his mind, the Jihad is an unfortunate byproduct that he reluctantly accepts because any path that prevents the Jihad also prevents him from claiming the throne.  This is why he's an anti-hero and not a villain.  In a vacuum, his actions against those who betrayed him are justified, and those people are more traditional villains that deserve to be destroyed.  But, he has prescience and knows the results will be catastrophic, thus he is not a hero.

 

But what do his justifications matter if he knows his actions are going to lead to a genocide? I just can't see him as anything other than evil.

[IndustriousAngel]

On 3/11/2024 at 9:50 AM, Elessar said:

 

If he knows all the possible futures then wouldn't he also know how to prevent it? How to prevent millions from dying? Why can't he escape from destiny?  Terminator taught me "There's no fate but what we make for ourselves". 

 

It's not as if he isn't trying. And he succeeds (kind of), at least in the books, in that he removes himself from the picture as far as possible. But like when a dam bursts, there's only very little one can do to influence the disasterous course of the flood. And Paul, while removing himself, just manages to put the weight in someone elses hands (his children's). In fact, most of the later Dune books (starting with God Emperor) are about how Leto tries to escape from the forces of history.

[Torontofan]

Pretty much he is a guy who wants to get revenge for his house and creates space Taliban

 

Its a cool story really, not really seen a main character act in such a way often.