Tubes Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 19 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said: My goodness, the "Rey couldn't have beat Kylo Ren" stuff is probably the most annoying post TFA storyline, unless somehow the "Han died offscreen" camp gains momentum. It's established early on in the movie when she beats up the gang members that she is skilled in hand-to-hand combat. These same people probably would have watched ANH and said "How could this untrained pilot possibly take down this super station without using his computer?!?! It doesn't make sense!!!!!!!" Luke was established as being a crack shot and decent pilot early on in the movie, and he's able to use the Force to transcend these skills and nail the shot. In this one, Rey is shown to be a street-tough survivor who knows how to fight, and she lets the Force in and wins. They're both able to win because she embraces the Force and uses it to guide them. They even spell it out for you when Obi says "Use the Force" and Rey stops and closes her eyes and says "The Force..." THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS FUCKING FRANCHISE. The entire saga is based around ordinary individuals using the Force to do amazing things. And even then, she barely beats a critically injured guy who just killed his dad and is actively trying to recruit her. This is some mentality straight off the IMDB boards or something. Except a more well trained Luke got the shit kicked out of him by Vader in ESB. And wise old Dooku beat the insanely powerful Anakin in AOTC. In the Star Wars universe, the Force isn't a power you entirely understand without training and guidance, none of which Rey had. She really shouldn't have gotten over a more experienced rage monster who just killed his father. It's the only part of Rey's story arc that I didn't like. If this is expanded on in the sequels, the entire criticism may be rendered moot. It did with Luke, as he and Rey share some of the same character problems in their first films. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpospoke Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 hour ago, Darth Rallax said: And I'm sensing an an emotional attachment to a character that you can't let go of. I'm not ignoring movie history here. I don't have a big problem with Han dying....I just couldn't help noticing I didn't actually see him die and I know what that has meant in past movies (and in this one with Poe). If Ford doesn't want to play the part, then I get that...but the evidence in the movie isn't convincing at all. I'm certainly not going to be surprised if Han shows up again after miraculously avoiding death. This is a staple of movie making. No one else ever noticed that about movies? 1 hour ago, RichWS said: Like Rallax said: we see a lightsaber go through him, followed by falling into a chasm on a planet that explodes. What the hell are you talking about with "emotional attachment"? Are you being dense on purpose? Not sure what you mean. I'm telling you exactly what I saw. He definitely gets an unspecified saber wound through his mid-section and he definitely falls and the planet eventually explodes. That's all we know. That's hardly a sure death in movies. Again...Han dies off camera. That's not "dense"...that's the truth. And it should be common knowledge at this point what that can mean in a movie. There is no actual reason to be upset at this suggestion so that's why I suspect an emotional element to the responses here. Why the aggression guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orestes Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said: My goodness, the "Rey couldn't have beat Kylo Ren" stuff is probably the most annoying post TFA storyline, unless somehow the "Han died offscreen" camp gains momentum. It's established early on in the movie when she beats up the gang members that she is skilled in hand-to-hand combat. These same people probably would have watched ANH and said "How could this untrained pilot possibly take down this super station without using his computer?!?! It doesn't make sense!!!!!!!" Luke was established as being a crack shot and decent pilot early on in the movie, and he's able to use the Force to transcend these skills and nail the shot. In this one, Rey is shown to be a street-tough survivor who knows how to fight, and she lets the Force in and wins. They're both able to win because she embraces the Force and uses it to guide them. They even spell it out for you when Obi says "Use the Force" and Rey stops and closes her eyes and says "The Force..." THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS FUCKING FRANCHISE. The entire saga is based around ordinary individuals using the Force to do amazing things. And even then, she barely beats a critically injured guy who just killed his dad and is actively trying to recruit her. This is some mentality straight off the IMDB boards or something. I would say there is more basis for Rey being able to beat a wounded Ren than there was for Luke being able to blow up the Death Star. We actually saw Rey hold her own in the fight with the muggers, we only had Luke's word for it that he could bullseye womp rats back home. Edited December 21, 2015 by Orestes 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 23 minutes ago, Obi-Wan Telemachos said: But you don't understand. Kylo Ren's Force level is at least an 8.4, and Rey couldn't be 4 or 5, max. It just doesn't make any logical sense. You need a Force level of at least 8 to pull off high level Force Tricks like Jedi Mind Tricks and to be able to beat a trained Sith Lord in a lightsaber duel. In the beginning of the movie, Rey thought the Force was just a myth, so its really hard believe she could have gone up to Force level 8 in such a short amount of time with zero guidance. You can't go past Force level 3 without it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Futurist Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Rey felt like a video game character with a power up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 34 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said: My goodness, the "Rey couldn't have beat Kylo Ren" stuff is probably the most annoying post TFA storyline, unless somehow the "Han died offscreen" camp gains momentum. It's established early on in the movie when she beats up the gang members that she is skilled in hand-to-hand combat. These same people probably would have watched ANH and said "How could this untrained pilot possibly take down this super station without using his computer?!?! It doesn't make sense!!!!!!!" Luke was established as being a crack shot and decent pilot early on in the movie, and he's able to use the Force to transcend these skills and nail the shot. In this one, Rey is shown to be a street-tough survivor who knows how to fight, and she lets the Force in and wins. They're both able to win because she embraces the Force and uses it to guide them. They even spell it out for you when Obi says "Use the Force" and Rey stops and closes her eyes and says "The Force..." THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS FUCKING FRANCHISE. The entire saga is based around ordinary individuals using the Force to do amazing things. And even then, she barely beats a critically injured guy who just killed his dad and is actively trying to recruit her. This is some mentality straight off the IMDB boards or something. Jesus, now I feel like a piece of shit for wondering aloud how Rey is so gifted with a lightsaber with no training. I'm sorry. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmasterclay Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 4 minutes ago, Tubes said: Except a more well trained Luke got the shit kicked out of him by Vader in ESB. And wise old Dooku beat the insanely powerful Anakin in AOTC. In the Star Wars universe, the Force isn't a power you entirely understand without training and guidance, none of which Rey had. She really shouldn't have gotten over a more experienced rage monster who just killed his father. It's the only part of Rey's story arc that I didn't like. If this is expanded on in the sequels, the entire criticism may be rendered moot. It did with Luke, as he and Rey share some of the same character problems in their first films. The whole point of Luke nailing that shot in the Death Star was that he LET GO of his conscious training and style and let the Force guide him. In the fight with Ren, Rey is getting her ass whooped by a half-dead dude until she takes a moment to close her eyes and let the Force guide her. Yes, it's not something you can use without training, but when you use the Force in combination with a skill you already had (she's clearly already a solid fighter), then you succeed. That's, again, kinda the point here. Also, those Vader and Dooku examples don't work. Darth Vader was a Sith Master who was uninjured (well, you know, for him...) and had been preparing for this battle, facing an emotionally unprepared Luke who had rushed to Cloud City irrationally. Count Dooku was a former Jedi Master and a skilled Sith Lord who destroys Obi Wan twice and holds his own with Yoda- and again, he's unijured and mentally prepared. Kylo Ren is an unstable, emotional headcase bordering on psychotic who had just killed his Dad, then proceeded to get shot with Chewie's super crossbow in the chest, and then stabbed with a fucking lightsaber- and even then, he still almost wins, despite not trying to kill her. So not exactly the best example. Not that it should matter- comparing power levels and battle health meters is pointless, because it's not a video game, it's a movie, and that plot point made thematic and cinematic magic. So who cares? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Futurist Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 So I googled Force Awakens spoilers and the second result is a Star Wars fansite that had it all, all the big spoilers of the movie in detail, available months ago for everyone to see, given by a traitor that spoke. Probably got executed or deported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 7 minutes ago, Harpospoke said: There is no actual reason to be upset at this suggestion so that's why I suspect an emotional element to the responses here. Why the aggression guys? Because you're so committed to a dumb idea. On one hand, it's admirable. On the other, I worry about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Futurist Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Rey s Flashbacks were Lucafilm s version of post-credit scenes. Just sayin'. Kevin Feige. His POWAH. Edited December 21, 2015 by The Futurist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmasterclay Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 5 minutes ago, RichWS said: Jesus, now I feel like a piece of shit for wondering aloud how Rey is so gifted with a lightsaber with no training. I'm sorry. Rich, you may be a piece of shit, but you're OUR favorite piece of shit. Seriously, though, I think the past week has seen a serious influx of power-level obsessed Redditors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75Live Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Ren also didn't complete his training either so it's not like he is all powerful or even a full sith/jedi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KATCH-2D2 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Anyone saw this in 3D? I'm considering 3D for my second viewing but only if it enhance the experience. And here are my short and sweet 2cs on some certain topics. 1.Han is deader than dead but somehow IF Ford wants to come back they do make sure that he can by NOT showing his dead body. 2.I believe Rey's power level is meant to be explore more in ep8 so I'm fine with it for now. However,a lot of people I know did make the comments about how it didn't make sense to them that Rey could beat Kylo and those people aren't power-level obsessed, just GA. Edited December 21, 2015 by KATCH-2D2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvikk Lunsj Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 minute ago, 75live said: Ren also didn't complete his training either so it's not like he is all powerful or even a full sith/jedi Ren had fought any with the force for prob lay 15 years as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingo Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Just now, KATCH-2D2 said: Anyone saw this in 3D? I'm considering 3D for my second viewing but only if it enhance the experience. Its worth it. Just get some good seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingo Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Just now, KATCH-2D2 said: Anyone saw this in 3D? I'm considering 3D for my second viewing but only if it enhance the experience. I saw it in IMAX 3D instead of regular 3D. So it could be different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan7 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 The 3D for this wasn't special, you're probably just better off watching it in 2D. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KATCH-2D2 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 ^^Thanks. I saw a few scenes that could turn out great with 3D so if I can see it in a bigger format I might try 3D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 28 minutes ago, KATCH-2D2 said: Anyone saw this in 3D? I'm considering 3D for my second viewing but only if it enhance the experience. And here are my short and sweet 2cs on some certain topics. 1.Han is deader than dead but somehow IF Ford wants to come back they do make sure that he can by NOT showing his dead body. 2.I believe Rey's power level is meant to be explore more in ep8 so I'm fine with it for now. However,a lot of people I know did make the comments about how it didn't make sense to them that Rey could beat Kylo and those people aren't power-level obsessed, just GA. In the novelization when Rey pulls the lightsaber away from him, Kylo says "it is you". I think this is one of the parts left out of the movie so that they could do it in Episode VIII instead. So yeah they will probably show that Rey was one of Luke's students when she was a kid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeCee Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 13 minutes ago, Caesar said: In the novelization when Rey pulls the lightsaber away from him, Kylo says "it is you". I think this is one of the parts left out of the movie so that they could do it in Episode VIII instead. So yeah they will probably show that Rey was one of Luke's students when she was a kid. Actually, that would be a good explanation. It would make Luke less heartless leaving someone he wasn't related to on Jakku. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
