New Year's Day Weekend Thread: Late Friday estimates (DHD) - TLJ 19.5M, Jumanji 17.5M, PP3 6.7M, TGS 5.3M

[NoLegMan]

Robert Frost sucks at poetry, said no one ever.

Edited January 1, 2018 by NoLegMan

[CJohn]

3 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

So a Picasso is trash if CJohn says so?

 

Do you have any you want to give away.

 

I'll throw them away for you. 

Yes.

[grey ghost]

20 minutes ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

It's entirely subjective, just like any other kind of art, be it music, photography, literature, theatre, and yes, film as well.

 

It is widely considered by most people as high quality art. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with those people, because if you disagree with them, that's what should matter more: what you think. Art is something that's pretty much impossible to be universally agreed on, and it's meant to be that way. Even Picasso - or Da Vinci for that matter - must have his detractors out there, and whether I disagree with them or not, it's impossible to say that they are factually or objectively wrong.

 

The same thing applies with movies. If 90% of professional critics agreed that a movie is good, that may be seen as more credible source than an opinion of some shmuck regarding what they should expect going into a film that they haven't seen yet. That doesn't mean that they HAVE to obligatorily agree with those critics, though, cause they can just as easily end up siding with the shmuck who disagrees instead, and there would be nothing wrong with that. That's the nature of art.

 

So, the quality of Picasso's art depends entirely on your point of view, and if someone think that it's bad, then it really doesn't matter if a lot of people like it - to those people, it's bad. End of story. Exact same applies to films well scored on RT.

I put critical consensus over random opinions when judging a film's overall quality.

 

(that's different from judging my FAVORITE films)

 

I'm not saying any opinion is an objective fact.

[Maxmoser3]

2017 had 4 record breaking months(March, April, September, and December)

 

Whereas 2016 only had 2 record breaking months(March, and August),2015 had 2(September, and December), 2014 had 2(August and October), 2013 had 3(May, June, August), 2012 had 3(February, March,and November), 2011 had 4 récord breaking months(April, May, July, and September), and 2010 had 3(January, March, and April). 

 

So 2017 had the same as 2011, but 2017 had better stories than 2011.

 

2011’s stories were basically the success of R-rated comedies in the summer, the amazing number of sequels,  and lots of yawns. 

 

2017 had big breakouts like the horror genre having 4 films make over $100 million domestic.

 

Modest budget surprise hits like Baby Driver & Girls Trip had outgrossed The Mummy, Blade Runner, Baywatch, Alien, and Valerian. Even indie hits like Lady Bird & The Big Sick outgrossed comedies with Scarjo and Will Ferrell which is rare to think of.

 

also overseas was crazy! With four films making over $1 billion worldwide. A foreign film(Wolf Warrior 2) that only made $2 million domestic, however its worldwide total outgrossed Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2 and Wonder Woman’s WW totals.

[CoolioD1]

my dad, big star wars nerd, finally saw last jedi today. asked him about it but he went to mcdonalds after and they messed up his order and he was too into ranting about that to get into any star wars talk.

 

this has been my WOM report.

[grey ghost]

4 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

my dad, big star wars nerd, finally saw last jedi today. asked him about it but he went to mcdonalds after and they messed up his order and he was too into ranting about that to get into any star wars talk.

 

this has been my WOM report.

If he complained that the service was "too slow" and that the Big Mac "isn't true to the original" Big Mac then it's probably coded criticisms of TLJ.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by grey ghost

[WrathOfHan]

3 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

my dad, big star wars nerd, finally saw last jedi today. asked him about it but he went to mcdonalds after and they messed up his order and he was too into ranting about that to get into any star wars talk.

 

this has been my WOM report.

Sounds like something my dad would do  

[Frozen]

So will Star Wars beat Beauty and the Beast worldwide or no?

[narniadis]

So we just got home from seeing Jedi.... I need a 2nd viewing mainly because I missed some stuff taking care of the baby. 

 

The wife's take,  it didn't advance the story at all other than setting up the final Rey / Kylo showdown. Can understand some of the complaints witnessed on the bored but overall the film was fine. No big grin on my face leaving like with TFA which I totally see making it less likely to have great wom. 

 

Sold out show though (front row only left) and the theater was crazy. 

[Taruseth]

4 minutes ago, Frozen said:

So will Star Wars beat Beauty and the Beast worldwide or no?

I will with the Dom Monday TLJ is at $1,056.4M and BatB is at $1,263.5M, so TLJ needs to gross another 207.1 Mio, it should do $80M Dom and $60M in China, that leaves $67.1M for OS-China and Uk + Germany + Japan alone should gross more than that.

[mikee11]

6 minutes ago, Frozen said:

So will Star Wars beat Beauty and the Beast worldwide or no?

I would say yes..since international performance without china is +1% domestic, and china will add at least 40 million if it really does badly 

[grey ghost]

7 minutes ago, Frozen said:

So will Star Wars beat Beauty and the Beast worldwide or no?

It'll be close but TLJ should manage to get close to 1.3 billion to take the 2017 WW crown.

[MCKillswitch123]

58 minutes ago, ThiagoMaia said:

If it is so subjective why is there so much agreement?

Because opinions on certain things can simply be the same in a lot of areas? Why does the fact that a lot of people have the same opinions change in any way the fact that they are still opinions on things that are meant to be subjective?

 

55 minutes ago, LinksterAC said:

There's a technical aspect of art that's objective, I think. 

In the case of film, there are certain ways to employ the camera, audio effects, music, editing, lighting, staging, acting, etc. to move the eye, induce certain emotional responses, communicate information, and so on.  They're pretty repeatable and measurable.  These things can be done correctly or incorrectly, and so there are objective ways to judge how "well" a film is made by looking at how well these tools are used.

Whether what's well executed appeals to the consumer of the art is a different story altogether, and I would agree that is, by definition, purely a subjective experience.  I think Michael Bay, for example, knows what he's doing on a technical level.  Despite that fact, I generally don't like his movies because I don't like how he applies his technical know-how.

I'll admit it's sometimes hard to parse out whether a high level of technical ability is being displayed in some things that are considered "great art."  For example, I seriously wonder sometimes if Jackson Pollock is a hack, and scratch my head at his work.  That said, I think this difficulty in assessing technical execution varies from medium to medium, and that it's easier to figure out in film.

I absolutely agree that the technical aspect of, in the case you mention, film is perhaps easier to judge objectively. But when it comes to the main meat of art, which is its actual content and how it makes you express emotion, it's a whole different story. Even the more objective aspects of film - such as lighting, cinematography, etc. - has that weight of emotional conjuring to it, I think.

 

43 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

I put critical consensus over random opinions when judging a film's overall quality.

 

(that's different from judging my FAVORITE films)

 

I'm not saying any opinion is an objective fact.

Doesn't come off that way when you become defensive about certain films being called bad by some people for what it seems like because they have high RT scores and not because you simply disagree with those opinions. But sure, man.

Edited January 1, 2018 by MCKillswitch123

[grey ghost]

2 minutes ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

 

 

Doesn't come off that way when you become defensive about certain films being called bad by some people for what it seems like because they have high RT scores and not because you simply disagree with those opinions. But sure, man.

 

Wut?

 

This whole thing started because I sarcastically said "TLJ is bad movie with over 90% on RT".

 

Then it became a big debate as to why personal opinion is all that matters because art is subjective.

 

Most of that debate I kept insisting that personal opinion shouldn't overshadow critical consensus.

 

(personal opinion determines favorites, critical consensus judges overall quality)

 

 

 

 

[narniadis]

Also I feel like I am the only one who views Rt for what it is, a site that tells you how many critics pulled the + or - lever, not a site that says with how much enthusiasm or why. 

 

I feel like some of you treat it like a God (and granted the studios have helped create the problem with their ridiculous "certified fresh" advertising) and forget that it simply counts the numbers and gives us the "data". Which only creates the perceived group think effect both on the reviewers and the film hobbiests like ourselves who are afraid in some ways of being out of the mainstream. 

 

Stop giving other people and places control over your own thoughts and enjoy being who you are, without penalizing others for doing the same. 

 

*steps off soap box*

[narniadis]

6 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

Wut?

 

This whole thing started because I sarcastically said "TLJ is bad movie with over 90% on RT".

 

Then it became a big debate as to why personal opinion is all that matters because art is subjective.

 

Most of that debate I kept insisting that personal opinion shouldn't overshadow critical consensus.

 

(personal opinion determines favorites, critical consensus judges overall quality)

 

 

 

 

Even the critics can get it wrong every now and then. But the critical elitism is nothing new, been around since the dawn of time lol. 

[IronJimbo]

Only objective measure we have is grosses. Rest just opinions.

 

For instance Avatar is bad, subjective.

 

Avatar made 2.78b dollars becoming the highest grossing film in the known universe of all time in all known timelines, objective.

Edited January 1, 2018 by IronJimbo

[TwoMisfits]

1 minute ago, grey ghost said:

Wut?

 

This whole thing started because I sarcastically said "TLJ is bad movie with over 90% on RT".

 

Then it became a big debate as to why personal opinion is all that matters because art is subjective.

 

Most of that debate I kept insisting that personal opinion shouldn't overshadow critical consensus.

 

(personal opinion determines favorites, critical consensus judges overall quality)

 

 

 

 

Here, I disagree...IMHO, critical + audience consensus judge overall quality...

 

Picasso wouldn't be considered great art without the buy-in of the general public.  Generation after generation have judged his works, long after the original critics have died off and their criticism faded away.  These generations of "commoners" (aka the non-experts) usually know the bare minimum about the art, something like "Picasso is some great artist from the past"...and yet, they find the value in his art without anyone holding their hand and telling them what to find...however, many, many other artists who were found to be superior in their time by critics have faded away...

 

And yet we also have works that have become classics that the original critics told us were trash...for any Tolkien fans, the Lord of the Rings originally had very mixed to negative critical reaction...and yet it was wildly adapted by the masses...now that decades have past and the popularity has remained, recent critical opinion has started to shift more favorably...but has the book gotten better, were the original criticisms off-base, or has recent criticism been pressured by the continued popularity of the work?  The answer to this question probably depends on your opinion of the book themselves...

[Porthos]

I tend to think TLJ's  8.1/10 score from RT is far more important, but that's just me.

[NoLegMan]

I was thinking about the most rememberable scene from film in 2017, and it has to be the end of GotG2 when the Cat Stevens song is being played, James Gunn is fantastic at conveying emotion through the usage of music, this isn't a perfect or even particularly great film but when it hits it really works.

Edited January 1, 2018 by NoLegMan