Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Nov 11 2022 | Starring 2023 Best Supporting Actress Oscar Nominee Angela Bassett. She did not do the thing!

[Nikostar]

Black Panther was the first MCU film to get major Oscar nods and now Basset is the first actress to possibly get a nod and win for an MCU film. Ryan Coogler and his power. Happy for the success of WF. 

[filmlover]

Rooting for Bassett to pull through for that Oscar nom (because she's amazing and it's criminal that it's been nearly 30 years since her first) but also am sure there will be cringey articles about how the only way an MCU performance can get nominated for anything is by engaging in capital-A acting that we usually see from more "traditional" Oscar fare. We can probably attribute the fact that it's definitely not a subtle performance - the BIG!!! speeches ("HAVE I NOT GIVEN EVERYTHING?!?!"), the elaborate "Royal Queen" costumes - to her getting as far as she has.

[Factcheck]

19 minutes ago, Menor Reborn said:

The "T'Challa tribute factor" is the reason it was a passing of the torch lmao. If Chadwick had been alive it obviously would've been a T'Challa movie. 

If the passing of the torch from Steve to Sam is possible, then T'Challa to Shuri was also possible when Chadwick was alive, if Disney wanted it. So I'm just stating a hypothetical situation

[Nikostar]

Congratulations on the PGA nod. Second Marvel film score a nod. Black Panther was the first. Crazy that this could get the same nods as the first. Trade out score for supporting actress 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Nikostar

[eddyxx]

On 1/11/2023 at 10:34 AM, Factcheck said:

If the passing of the torch from Steve to Sam is possible, then T'Challa to Shuri was also possible when Chadwick was alive, if Disney wanted it. So I'm just stating a hypothetical situation

Chadwick was in only one BP movie and had only been in the role for 4 years as opposed to Evans’ trilogy and near decade. Please don’t be obtuse.

[Factcheck]

4 hours ago, eddyxx said:

Chadwick was in only one BP movie and had only been in the role for 4 years as opposed to Evans’ trilogy and near decade. Please don’t be obtuse.

Don't you understand the meaning of the word "hypothetical"? Disney is a corporate company; they take decisions that suit them better financially. If this idea of changing BP's gender had come to their mind when Chadwick was alive and if that had suited them more financially, they could have done that by giving any excuse like T'Challa wanting to spend time with his family now after blip so he is passing the mantle, etc.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Factcheck

[Porthos]

51 minutes ago, Factcheck said:

Don't you understand the meaning of the word "hypothetical"? Disney is a corporate company; they take decisions that suit them better financially. If this idea of changing BP's gender had come to their mind when Chadwick was alive and if that had suited them more financially, they could have done that by giving any excuse like T'Challa wanting to spend time with his family now after blip so he is passing the mantle, etc.

 

This is all well and good, except we already know what BP2 would have been had Chadwick not tragically died.  So, like, kinda a moot point.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Porthos
Wrong link slipped in - Sigh

[Porthos]

24 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

This is all well and good, except we already know what BP2 would have been had Chadwick not tragically died.  So, like, kinda a moot point.

And since I'm headed to bed, another point, @Factcheck.

 

52 minutes ago, Factcheck said:

Disney is a corporate company; they take decisions that suit them better financially. If this idea of changing BP's gender had come to their mind when Chadwick was alive and if that had suited them more financially,

 

The other central problem with your hypothetical is: Disney would have to have some reason to tell Kevin "I've made Disney more money than Scrooge McDuck could swim in" Feige that whatever plans he had for Marvel needed to be tossed out the window because they came up with an idea that would make even more money.

 

And while egos are in no short supply in Hollywood, if there was one producer in Hollywood that had little fear of micromanagement from Corporate Overlords, it was Kevin Feige circa 2018-2021.

 

It might make a bit more sense if Kevin Feige himself ordered Ryan Coogler around, except given how well BP did much of the same calculus applies (whatever story Coogler wanted to tell, Feige was almost certainly willing to let him tell it due to the success of BP1).

 

Ultimately, hypotheticals need some basis in believability.  And neither one of the above hypotheticals passes the smell test for me.

[Legion Again]

Hypothetically, what if Disney decided it would make more money to have T’Challa pass the torch to Howard the Duck? Can’t prove it wouldn’t have happened, checkmate

[Factcheck]

13 minutes ago, Porthos said:

And since I'm headed to bed, another point, @Factcheck.

 

 

The other central problem with your hypothetical is: Disney would have to have some reason to tell Kevin "I've made Disney more money than Scrooge McDuck could swim in" Feige that whatever plans he had for Marvel needed to be tossed out the window because they came up with an idea that would make even more money.

 

And while egos are in no short supply in Hollywood, if there was one producer in Hollywood that had little fear of micromanagement from Corporate Overlords, it was Kevin Feige circa 2018-2021.

 

It might make a bit more sense if Kevin Feige himself ordered Ryan Coogler around, except given how well BP did much of the same calculus applies (whatever story Coogler wanted to tell, Feige was almost certainly willing to let him tell it due to the success of BP1).

 

Ultimately, hypotheticals need some basis in believability.  And neither one of the above hypotheticals passes the smell test for me.

Then why they didn't recast T'Challa if Feige had plans for him? Why they tossed out T'Challa out of window? Why did this idea of a female Black Panther come to their minds? They did this because they sensed more D+/Disney Parks benefits out of it, so yes, Disney cared about extra money and tossed Feige's and Coogler's plan for T'Challa out the window. Now don't say they did this because they wanted to give respect to T'Challa or Chadwick, as no one believes that.

[WittyUsername]

1 hour ago, Factcheck said:

Then why they didn't recast T'Challa if Feige had plans for him? Why they tossed out T'Challa out of window? Why did this idea of a female Black Panther come to their minds? They did this because they sensed more D+/Disney Parks benefits out of it, so yes, Disney cared about extra money and tossed Feige's and Coogler's plan for T'Challa out the window. Now don't say they did this because they wanted to give respect to T'Challa or Chadwick, as no one believes that.

Why didn’t Lucasfilm recast Leia?

[thajdikt]

WF was never ever going to match it´s predecessor in awards and box office. But overall I think it´s done very well for itself. Especially considering all the problems that this movie has faced, first and foremost the loss of Chadwick. I also think this is a movie that´s going to age very well. 840M box office without China is respectable. Even thought it´s a big drop from the first one. It should get 1-3 Academy Awards noms aswell. Happy for Coogler and the team. PGA nom is awesome

[Porthos]

7 hours ago, Factcheck said:

Then why they didn't recast T'Challa if Feige had plans for him?

 

Because there is a severe allergic reaction to recasting major stars of franchise films when tragedy strikes.  The Carrie Fisher example is actually a very good one in that in retrospect it would have been better for all concerned if Lucasfilm had just recast Leia Organa. Not without its own controversy, naturally.  But "better" result, in retrospect.

 

But because these are fan driven franchises, all sorts of complicated (not to mention contradictory) emotions that come into play that overrides other concerns.  

 

(also, to be frank, "plans for the future" are never as ironclad as some folks might think — even the grand example of Babylon 5 has the famous example of the lead actor being written out of a heavily scripted in advance master plot due to at the time unknown health reasons)

 

Not going to reopen the debate on whether or not characters should be recast more often in fan properties, mind.  Just noting that in Hollywood today there is a severe resistance to the idea.  Not absolute resistance as it does happen on occasion.  But it is far far faaaaaaaaar rarer than it used to be.

 

(In fact Hollywood's changing attitudes on this subject is an interesting phenomenon on and of itself, but probably too off topic for this thread)

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Porthos

[Legion Again]

7 hours ago, Factcheck said:

Now don't say they did this because they wanted to give respect to T'Challa or Chadwick, as no one believes that.

That’s exactly why fucking lmao

[Factcheck]

6 hours ago, WittyUsername said:

Why didn’t Lucasfilm recast Leia?

They didn't recast Leia because they had some unused footage of her from The Force Awakens, so maybe they thought there was no need to recast her when her unused footage could be used to have a better impact on the movie.

[WittyUsername]

1 hour ago, Factcheck said:

They didn't recast Leia because they had some unused footage of her from The Force Awakens, so maybe they thought there was no need to recast her when her unused footage could be used to have a better impact on the movie.

You really think there was ever a scenario where they would’ve recast Princess Leia?

[Verrows]

Hypothetical or not, it's a pointless hypothetical @Factcheck because there's no way Marvel had any reason to shift gears with the character if Chadwick had not died. It would have been a typical Marvel sequel.

 

to be honest, I'm not even sure what the debate is about here. Yes, it was a tribute because Chadwick DID leave us. There's no need to ponder if Marvel would have went the Shuri route if he didn't. And yeah, you could say being a Chadwick tribute helped it because NOT having Chadwick propabbly hindered it (compared to a normal sequel with him). But again, what does it matter? Given the tragedy there was no way Marvel WASN'T going to make this film a tribute to him.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Verrows

[poweranimals]

I still don't understand why they didn't even explain what it was that caused T'challa's death. It was just "Oh he's dying" and then he's dead. It just felt kinda lazy.

Edited January 13, 2023 by poweranimals

[jedijake]

1 hour ago, Verrows said:

Hypothetical or not, it's a pointless hypothetical @Factcheck because there's no way Marvel had any reason to shift gears with the character if Chadwick had not died. It would have been a typical Marvel sequel.

 

to be honest, I'm not even sure what the debate is about here. Yes, it was a tribute because Chadwick DID leave us. There's no need to ponder if Marvel would have went the Shuri route if he didn't. And yeah, you could say being a Chadwick tribute helped it because NOT having Chadwick propabbly hindered it (compared to a normal sequel with him). But again, what does it matter? Given the tragedy there was no way Marvel WASN'T going to make this film a tribute to him.

I can't see a scenario where they would have past the torch to Shuri if Chadwick hadn't passed. It would have been an internal struggle for T'Challa and may have still been the father/son story we heard about. I also think there would be some moral dilemma that T'Challa would have to struggle with (whether to pre-emptively attack Talocan).

 

As for a lack of explanation being "lazy"-I don't think we can say that. I think it was purposely left ambiguous, but not lazy

 

To this day, there are 3 nit-picky things that puzzle me about the movie. NONE of them are enough to make me dislike it though.

1. Shuri became a good fighter and warrior pretty damn quick for a skinny girl. T'Challa was already physically strong.

2. Shuri being impaled and living without any problems seems a bit abrupt, even if the herb DOES heal. Have the spear go through her arm or leg or something more believable. 

3. Namor wanting Riri SO bad seems off a bit considering that anyone could come upon Riri's plans for a vibranium detector.

 

But, again, nit pick here and there. We can do that with EVERY movie EVER made.

[YM!]

 

Honestly, Ryan Coogler is the best MCU director and the only one who could challenge him is Gunn. Probably one of my favorite directors. It’s wild his worst movie is a solid 4/5.