Black Widow | July 9 2021 | ScarJo secures the bag from Disney

[Barnack]

6 hours ago, dudalb said:

I though she would get more then  Henry Cavill or Gal Gadot got for their first superhero outing, since she was a bigger name then either of them, not to mention an Oscar winner, but not quite that much. And if Captain Marvel is a big hit, the money she gets for the sequels and appreances in other Marvel films will skyrocket. That is the way these contracts are structured to work.

 And as for the 7 film story, she might have been optioned for Seven films in the deal, but the FIve Million is only for the first film. ALthuough Larsen is not a A list star (yet) Five million for seven films is just too far below her market price to be accurate.

Her paycheck of the other films will be negotiate later. That is how these deals work.

This is a first time I ever heard something like that.

 

What being contractually obligated to do a movie without setting a price tag to be negotiated would even mean ? What if Larson say no to the negotiated price of Captain Marvel 2 ? Why have any contract ?

 

Has for the price skyrocket if the first one hit big, well yes an no, those deal are for covering the studio in how much they will have to pay the people if the movies become really big hit (and actor protect themselve in getting nothing if they do not get big hit), sequels compensation can have close with how much the previous made I imagine, but that could be fully encapsulated in the first movie compensation if your are locked for many.

 

Her, Paul Rudd and Cumberbatch would be people that could have started with an higher price tag than many yes, being well established the moment they signed on those.

[AndyK]

They need to prove they can carry a blockbuster on their own before demanding that kind of money.

 

Still think they left it too late for a BW movie.

[Barnack]

10 minutes ago, AndyK said:

They need to prove they can carry a blockbuster on their own before demanding that kind of money.

 

Still think they left it too late for a BW movie.

Not sure who they in that sentence, nor the kind of money you are talking about.

 

But no not necessarily, the twilight trio could ask life setting fortunes, same for the Harry Potters kids with most of them having no illusion they could ever carry a blockbuster on their own.

 

It work by Offer/Demand and not recasting a character has a lot of value that can be independent of the ability of the actor to carry blockbuster on their own  and how much they can get at a competitor.

 

If you by they a Cumberbatch / Rudd type getting more than those 300-500k type of rumors for the Thor/Captain america debut, it is because they did much more than that in other movies in the past, building their quote up over year's of work and building fanbase (in interesting market for Cumberbatch, strong in Asia).

Edited October 12, 2018 by Barnack

[DMan7]

She's already in 2 movies so that's 5 more movies to go. Most likely 2 more CM movies, 2 more avengers movies and maybe some cosmic team up movie down the road with the Guardians, Nova, The Eternals or maybe even Silver Surfer when Marvel attains those rights. 

[Barnack]

 

41 minutes ago, DMan7 said:

She's already in 2 movies so that's 5 more movies to go.

I think we should take has a near fact Brie Larson is not lying about the report being false. Could have been about the money too.

[Napoleon]

ScarJo got lucky DC did Wonder Woman and put pressure on Marvel to finally give female characters something to do. She would never get $15 million for a movie role again after so many bombs on her shoulders, and Marvel was never interested in giving her character a solo movie.

 

Before Wonder Woman, if ScarJo would start demanding more money, Marvel could easily give her the boot because they made her character very disposable, just like all the other women in the MCU that are easily left out when they don't want to pay the actress (Hulk fans are still asking where's Betty Ross).

 

This is why we need to celebrate and support diversity. If it wasn't for Wonder Woman we would probably see Marvel treating female actresses that way for another 10 years. Since people started demanding a Black Widow movie, Marvel felt forced to make one, thus giving ScarJo some negotiating power.

[Arlborn]

9 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

ScarJo got lucky DC did Wonder Woman and put pressure on Marvel to finally give female characters something to do. She would never get $15 million for a movie role again after so many bombs on her shoulders, and Marvel was never interested in giving her character a solo movie.

 

Before Wonder Woman, if ScarJo would start demanding more money, Marvel could easily give her the boot because they made her character very disposable, just like all the other women in the MCU that are easily left out when they don't want to pay the actress (Hulk fans are still asking where's Betty Ross).

 

This is why we need to celebrate and support diversity. If it wasn't for Wonder Woman we would probably see Marvel treating female actresses that way for another 10 years. Since people started demanding a Black Widow movie, Marvel felt forced to make one, thus giving ScarJo some negotiating power.

While I think you are a bit too harsh on Marvel here(as usual), I can't really disagree with your main point. They could have done better by their female heroes and I'm glad to see it changing.

[ChipDerby]

IDK the way Marvel treats their comic writers... They seem like they don't embrace diversity willingly.

[ZeeSoh]

Lol, thats a cute narrative. And coming from Napolean it was obvious it would reek of Marvel hate and praise of DC. But the fact of the matter is simply that the reason for the lack of diversity in the MCU till 2014 or so was due to Ike Perlmutter. A simple google search will easily reveal this. Once he was ousted and Kevin Feige took the reins, diverse projects such as Black Panther and Captain Marvel took off. So a female MCU led movie would have been made regardless of Wonder Woman or not. Of course Wonder Woman’s importance and most importantly its achievements must be praised (it did after all show that a female led movie can be incredibly successful). But this narrative that if it werent for WW then we wouldnt have seen a female MCU movie is nonsensical and coming from a known hater is obviously ludicrous. 

[Barnack]

Captain Marvel was announced in October 2014 with a 2018 release date a year before Ike departure:

https://www.theverge.com/2014/10/28/7083641/captain-marvel-movie-announced-marvels-first-female-superhero

 

I imagine they sometime do not do announced movies, but even with him they would have one day made some I would imagine.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Barnack

[terrestrial]

I think I read some years back, way earlier than WW was anounced, about Feige wanting to do a female lead film (I am only not 100% if it was with Captain Marvel as a lead then already, but she was at least in the top 3 or so), way before they finally got that.... dinosaur Perlmutter out of  Marvel Studios.

Perlmutter and similar minded (usually rather very old)... are the ones who do not belief in female heroes, female toy interest, female merchandise customers.... and as such did not allow it, did a lot to avoid it.

 

Betty Ross non involvement has as far as I know more to do with the film rights not laying with Marvel than any other reason.

 

I think to include her in the MCU movies already released would have slowed down the stories a lot, Hulk is an Avenger, yes, but too much private life details (see IM & Pepper also not getting that much time in the Avenger movies), already having so many characters... makes no sense to try to include her too in them IMHO.

 

Would I prefer to have more female SH in the MCU (and others) already? Absolutely. But I do also think based on the increasing amount of characters, giving them time with several movies till the next team up film is needed too.

At first we got Black Widow as the only fighter (not counting Peppers fighting part in IM), than Scarlet Witch on earth, Gamora, followed by Nebula and Mantis,....  on the 'other side of the Galaxy' part. Thor lost based on the back breaking injury of the actress his fighting comrade Sif, but got Valkyrie, so Asgardians do need a few more (there are some reasons out of producers influence, why Thor didn't have more females in part 3 too).

 

But than we got Back Panther, and that movie alone added how many fighters at once? General Okoye, Nakia, in a way Shuri, ... the Dora Milaje.

BP is a movie that has all in, that/what Perlmutter never would have allowed, never would have believed in, maybe even despises (I am even wondering if he isn't spitting in rage over the success)

 

I think too many ppl forget how long a time between a pitch and the release especially for the MCU movies is spent, especially including behind the scenes ... difficulties like Perlmutter and others, film rights of characters (also something a certain other studio never has to bother about). And including the size of the studios, the amount of creative ppl working for those studios,... can also slow down a bit the speed.

 

Also not to forget, e.g. the deal with Sony was the reason they had to move some release dates, but the moves caused also some script changes, as the MCU general story changes with ever newly released title. So Captain Marvel, Black Widow,.. getting their movies later than hoped for? IMHO not based on resistance by Feige, who is now since a few years the leader of the Studio (but not without a boss himself, and not the boss of distribution,...)

= I think we will see quite some changes in the next some years based on the differences between him and Perlmutter alone, plus hopefully good BOs for Captain Marvel and way later Black Widow will help to support those changes too. Because in the end the real companies bosses, owners,... do not do movies for the movies, but for earning money. Money speaks still.

 

edit:

 

I see @Barnack wrote the details during the time I needed to write my lenghty text, it was CM

Edited October 12, 2018 by terrestrial

[GraceRandolph]

So scar jo is getting 15 million? Woah

[Ozymandias]

Whats Black Widow's superhero abilities?  Kicking and a handgun?

[GraceRandolph]

29 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Whats Black Widow's superhero abilities?  Kicking and a handgun?

Looking sexy. Captain Marvel can’t relate. 

[TwoMisfits]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

Whats Black Widow's superhero abilities?  Kicking and a handgun?

She's Batman without the detective skills...if you want them all, wiki has them...    
Expert tactician, hand-to-hand combatant and secret agent
Slowed aging, and enhanced immune system
Expert marksman and mastery of various other weapons
via gauntlets:
grappling hook
knock out gas
taser
explosives
tear gas pellets
radio transmitter

 

I'm interested in how they set this movie up and who her supporting heroes will be (if they don't have many of the original 6 make it out of Avengers 4)...

[terrestrial]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

Whats Black Widow's superhero abilities?  Kicking and a handgun?

Depends on which earth she is part of.

In one the old comics worlds (Earth-616, again: different earth-versions existing) she got the Russian version of the super soldier serum, means a less strong one than Captain America got, but still a super soldier serum. It's the Red Room serum, she has also enhanced mental abilities (including multi-calculating situations and...), heals faster, is enhanced against damage, extreme durance, has also extreme balance and so on... (above Olympic nouveau)

She is trained in a LOT of martial arts versions, espionage, tactics & strategy,... also in psychological war... art? (not sure about the term), I think also hypnosis, weaponry,...

She ages very very slowly (she was born way before WW II, maybe a bit later than Steven, but never got frozen) and is as such far more combat and undercover.... experienced and knowledgeable as an average older human also working in the spy... area

Training started at a young age (brutal methods, around the clock training....).

 

Her weak point is, that she is out of the Red Room project, means she got a lot of mind influencing 'treatments' with the same type of machine as the Winter Soldier got. The Russians caught her in the comics repeatedly, even again after a long time and brain washed her again, she did very bad things after those 'mind-washing-treatments' for a time.

 

She started out as a villain to the heroes, was sent to assassin a lot of ppl, in the times of brainwash again

 

In the movies it never got explicit explained, but if you remember e.g. the scene in the 1st Avenger movie, where she gotten thrown / jumped via the shield to one of the flying things.... how she manipulates the Russian general, Loki, and even the Hulk, and...I guess the did imply some special ...lets say talents at least. Also some hints all over the other movies with her too, if you are aware about her comic back story you can see a lot of hints that might not be as clear otherwise, I guess.

 

edit: I am definitively a too slow writer, see @TwoMisfits 's post

 

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by terrestrial

[Spidey Freak]

8 hours ago, ZeeSoh said:

So a female MCU led movie would have been made regardless of Wonder Woman or not. 

Captain Marvel maybe because Marvel made a concentrated push to make her "their Wonder Woman" (which funnily comes back to Wonder Woman again). But these other projects like Black Widow and The Eternals do seem like direct responses to DC projects like WW, Birds of Prey and New Gods. At least I don't see Marvel agreeing to a 15M pay day for SJ if WW hadn't overperformed the way it did and DC wasn't considering half a dozen Margot Robbie Harley Quinn projects.

 

So Napolean is not that far off. The Marvel fanbase has a habit of downplaying the company's shortcomings since even when Perlmutter was in charge. I remember some people who are ready to throw Perlmutter under the bus NOW whining about how "whatever Marvel did would never be enough for SJWs" circa 2013-15. Once Wonder Woman came along and proved that those demanding, ever unsatisfied SJW's were pretty easy to please, the narrative quickly changed to "Oh, it was just Perlmutter all along and Marvel is great now". Which as a statement is not all that inaccurate but the same people were defending Perlmutter's regime just a few years back so 

 

So yes, Wonder Woman and to be fair WB/DC do deserve all the praise they get in this particular context. 

[Barnack]

15M is Wahlberg Transformer 4 deal (19 and 20 for the sequels would they occur), is point started at 0% going to 4% and reaching  ultimately 7.5% of the revenue made after the first 825m WW at the box office. Unlike Johansson, he did not play that characther anytime before and it was an full open casting for the studio.

 

I don't think 15M would have been an issue in Johansson right after Lucy mega-success era before Wonder Woman giant run, that does not sound particularly high, the 20M + 10% gross regular A-list deal she was maybe asking, that a different story. 

 

At that level specially for movies certain to make a giant amount of revenues, just telling the advance payment is really telling a small part of the story,

 

15m V 7.5%

15M + 10% first dollar gross  

15m + 20% CB0

 

Trades call those 3 contract, 15M for the movie and people read the trade talking about 15M for those 3 scenario has if they were equal, they are not close at all.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Barnack

[terrestrial]

Nothing against DC (I watch the most of them too), but I do think ppl really underestimate the speed difference between WB and Marvel Studio (pitch to release) incl their way less experience, logistic,... partly not even existing staff / departments in their early years, their smaller staff amount even today....

I mean, WB does usually per year more films than all of the MCU films together count. Many many reasons for differences

Btw, Perlmutter is/was not the only one slowing down or .... such films, then studio boss Avi Arad too didn't see is.

 

Money-wise Marvel had at the beginning not the backing of Disney, again old men to convince to give a lot of money for the first few ones.

 

Black Widow was some years back in development at IMDb, then not, then again, for whatever reasons it is still not being in the 'real' making. Not a new idea, but nowadays probably more expensive, see salaries and mb getting the full movie rights back.

Are ppl even aware about the movie rights for her character got sold in the '90?

That Lionsgate let write a script for their version in 2004 that never got made after some female lead films made not enough BO then?

 

Marvel has some rather unusual legal problems, that WB never has/had. WB can pick their most well known characters, Marvel has to build-up partly C-list characters (and constantly check for legality, as their characters did and do a lot of crossover, see Scarlett Witch / Quicksilver being in Fox and MCU films), add their more lengthy production cycles, has bigger character teamsbas a goal, blabla, ....

 

I really do not understand why ppl even try to compare the behind the scenes situations and forget to fast details like:

Wonder Woman & Captain Marvel both got announced in Oct 2014, that WW (or more strange, WWs success) was the reason for Captain Marvel / Marvel female lead is, what I disagree with the most.

WW got released in 2017, CM will get released in 2019, see my earlier posts, I think it shows a bit of what I meant.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by terrestrial

[expensiveho]

You can see Perlmutter influence in Phase 1/2 vs Phase 3 when it comes to reception and success. There's really nothing to argue about. 

 

WW is the most iconic female SH, SO I think she deserved to be the first to get a movie, but to say its success influenced Marvel Studios is just dumb, it might have given them confidence but both CM/BW have been in development years before WW smashed. 

 

Also lol at Eternals. Are people just being dense about where they're trying to go or they're just one of those people that didn't see IW/can't add 2+2?