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Eternals | Marvel Studios | Nov 5 2021 | Magnum-Opus by Oscar winner Chloe Zhao - Marvel's first rotten movie | Dips into the 40s on RT, B CinemaScore

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5 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Bi men dating women or vice versa does not magically make them not bi.

Why is their sexuality even important? This is a comic book property. I couldn't care any less about that stuff when I'm watching movies and shows about superheroes. That's just my take. It's just a distraction. It's a not so subtle wink to the political discussion and identity politics going on in the real world (which I know is not new to films or other entertainment).

 

Anyway, good takes from everyone about the writing and stuff. Like everything else, it's very subjective.

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23 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Bi men dating women or vice versa does not magically make them not bi.

 

That's not the point I'm making. Despite having very vaguely bi characters they still opted to depict a traditional het romance so basically having a cake (they are bi if you caught/understood the reference) and eating it too (but we only showed a safe traditional romance on the screen). Not a deal breaker but not nearly as brave and powerful as bots and astroturf accounts made it out to be. 

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"too political" in translation means "political allegory/part wasn't handled well". OT Star Wars is political but nobody complains because it works well. It's anti-monarchy, pro-republic, pro-democracy, anti-fascism/autocracy, etc. It's well incorporated into the universe. It's when politics feel out of place because they don't fit in the universe/aren't organic with the universe that people notice and get hung up on it. 

 

Long story short, people are not against politics in fiction, they are against bad politics in fiction, just like they are against bad comedy, bad romance, etc but not against romance, comedy, etc itself. 

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Just now, Valonqar said:

"too political" in translation means "political allegory/part wasn't handled well". OT Star Wars is political but nobody complains because it works well. It's anti-monarchy, pro-republic, pro-democracy, anti-fascism/autocracy, etc. It's well incorporated into the universe. It's when politics feel out of place because they don't fit in the universe/aren't organic with the universe that people notice and get hung up on it. 

 

Long story short, people are not against politics in fiction, they are against bad politics in fiction, just like they are against bad comedy, bad romance, etc but not against romance, comedy, etc itself. 

Well put. Thank you my friend. I understand the sarcastic replies to my post because I didn't word it very well. I'm also quite exhausted with real world issues and just want to escape so maybe the politics that were always there just stand out more. 

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7 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

"too political" in translation means "political allegory/part wasn't handled well". OT Star Wars is political but nobody complains because it works well. It's anti-monarchy, pro-republic, pro-democracy, anti-fascism/autocracy, etc. It's well incorporated into the universe. It's when politics feel out of place because they don't fit in the universe/aren't organic with the universe that people notice and get hung up on it. 

 

Long story short, people are not against politics in fiction, they are against bad politics in fiction, just like they are against bad comedy, bad romance, etc but not against romance, comedy, etc itself. 

The OT has politics that is almost completely uncontroversial in the West, at least on the surface. There is a Vietnam allegory but it's extremely hidden. That's why it wasn't noticed. 

 

There was outcry in TFA even from the trailer when people saw a black stormtrooper. There were calls to boycott Rogue One before the movie was even out because people thought it was "political" to have a diverse cast. Besides "politics that fits into the universe", in practice, usually means "politics that I agree with."

Edited by Menor
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Just now, Valonqar said:

OT Star Wars is political but nobody complains because it works well. It's anti-monarchy, pro-republic, pro-democracy, anti-fascism/autocracy, etc. It's well incorporated into the universe

They way princess Leia character is portrayed and how little involve any kind of population or elected anything is portrayed I am not sure.

 

I think often it is easy to mistake a filmmaker using real life element has a shortcut on audience to save on exposition or harnessing pre-made emotion and doing an political allegory or statement.

 

If you want to portray has menacing an army and decide to give it a German army late WW1-WW2 look and use all the emotion with it to all is audience, I am not sure thats political, in itself. A bit like all the Roman-Latin imagery-words in the Hungers Games franchise or the Mongol empire in Game of Thrones, usage of political-history has an design inspiration can have many apolitical aim.

 

Maybe we are saying the same here, one has a story with a list of goals in it, it harness political emotion has a tool to hit the emotional story beat (those are the scary and bad people, use Nazi imagery like one would use smaller eyes character in a fictional world) when the other seem to have at any point, wanted to have the political element in it.

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17 minutes ago, Menor said:

"politics that fits into the universe", in practice, usually means "politics that I agree with."

 

So the whole reason why there was an attempt to destroy Joker, then? 

 

While I disagree that politics that fit in the universe always mean politics that I agree with (I neither agree nor disagree with OT politics from my example, I simply enjoy the universe that happen to be pro this and anti that as a backdrop for the story), Joker brouhaha was very much ignited by "I think this movie is pro_______ and I'm vehemently anti________ and therefore vehemently anti-this movie.".

Edited by Valonqar
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5 hours ago, TwoMisfits said:

I don't read the Eternals, but I am shocked they are trying to fit 11 new characters into one movie.

 

I always find this amusing.  Every new movie or TV show we see introduces us to new characters, sometimes even 10 or 11 of them.  They're all meant to work into a larger narrative.  Some have big parts, some have small, but if written well, they should all indicate something tied into the themes of the film.  Comic book characters [should be] no different than Scarface or Malcolm X or the three women in The Hours.  If people think a movie has "too many characters to introduce" or keep track of, then that's a problem with the script or film...it's not endemic to superhero movies.  Uber-fans set their own high [and arguably low] expectations for this... no one else has them.  People just want a good story.  Which brings me to...

 

1 hour ago, Val357 said:

Why is their sexuality even important? This is a comic book property. I couldn't care any less about that stuff when I'm watching movies and shows about superheroes. That's just my take. It's just a distraction. It's a not so subtle wink to the political discussion and identity politics going on in the real world (which I know is not new to films or other entertainment).

 

I like stories about people, and sometimes aliens or monsters, too.  People have sex.  Or at least some of them do.  Personally, *I'm* kind of bothered by how sex-LESS these movie are, lately.  "Just a distraction" = You have trouble equating these two worlds of superheroes and sex.  And that's not necessarily your fault, it's getting fed 10 or 20 years of these movies by the system that mostly don't really confront these issues (props to Snyder's 'Watchmen' for coming along fairly early in this era and legitimately dealing with this -- props also to The Incredible Hulk for not ignoring that issue with Bruce and Betty!).  If we don't want superheroes to "live" then where does that leave us as a culture?  Bubblegum comic books had sex, too...much more so, actually...and problematic stuff... That's interesting!  Look up you-know-who from the comics, speaking of the not-so-protected post-credits reveal...  

 

So, then... if fans want their popular Marvel movies to replicate signature elements from the comic books...why don't they want them to replicate the sex?  That's the real question we should be asking...

Edited by Macleod
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2 hours ago, Darth Lehnsherr said:

Next thing we'll have is fans complaining the new X-Men films are "too political"

If anything I’m afraid that the X-Men films won’t be as political as the older ones.

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8 hours ago, Mojoguy said:

The Winter Soldier

The Dark World

Civil War

Infinity War

Endgame

 

One does not belong with the others.:hahaha:

I thought they were only credited because they were brought in for rewrites? Joss Whedon did uncredited rewrites too.

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7 hours ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

I don't read the Eternals, but I am shocked they are trying to fit 11 new characters into one movie.

 

I mean, the Avengers have 100s of Avengers...but when they plotted the intro, yes they had 4 solo movies, but when you got team up number one, they only introduced 2 more Avengers, both of which had been seen in other movies, so you could have a big team movie without the baggage of having to intro characters and then also introing a team...that's a LOT of set up before a plot, and explains so many of the current Eternals reviews which say the 1st act is SLOW and dense and the 2nd act is better...how could it not be slow and dense with all the time you need to make folks care before you even tell the real story?

 

 

You don’t need solo movies to set up a team

movie. Avengers is a team-up movie starring individual heroes. Not a team movie like say X-men or fantastic four.

Edited by eddyxx
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4 hours ago, Valonqar said:

"too political" in translation means "political allegory/part wasn't handled well". OT Star Wars is political but nobody complains because it works well. It's anti-monarchy, pro-republic, pro-democracy, anti-fascism/autocracy, etc. It's well incorporated into the universe. It's when politics feel out of place because they don't fit in the universe/aren't organic with the universe that people notice and get hung up on it. 

 

Long story short, people are not against politics in fiction, they are against bad politics in fiction, just like they are against bad comedy, bad romance, etc but not against romance, comedy, etc itself. 

 

This isn't really true. There are folks on the right who would complain Brokeback Mountain is too political. 

 

And there are folks on the left who don't like it when comedians thumb their nose at their brand of cancel culture. 

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58 minutes ago, tonytr87 said:

 

This isn't really true. There are folks on the right who would complain Brokeback Mountain is too political. 

 

And there are folks on the left who don't like it when comedians thumb their nose at their brand of cancel culture. 

The backlash towards Dave Chapelle and Netflix is utterly hilarious!

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