Weekend Thread (12/10-12) | WSS 800K Previews

[Cmasterclay]

Also, I agree with Eric's points alot but I have zero problem with Red Notice or Extraction or anything of that ilk. As @Cap said shitty and fluffy movies have existed since the dawn of Hollywood and often been the main money makers. I really wish they had been released in theaters and been nice original hits, even if they were forgettable ones. My problem is directed towards the reference-filled and shared universe fanboy wank IP bullshit.

[Legion Again]

29 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

mostly because I find the idea of liking things because of "references" inane

This isn’t why people like the things 😛    
 

Anyway I mostly agree that the theatrical death of midsize adult originals is unfortunate. Mostly what I try to push back on is the (imo baseless but fairly common) idea that they’re a necessary part of the ecosystem financially. 
 

 

[Cap]

18 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

Also, I agree with Eric's points alot but I have zero problem with Red Notice or Extraction or anything of that ilk. As @Cap said shitty and fluffy movies have existed since the dawn of Hollywood and often been the main money makers. I really wish they had been released in theaters and been nice original hits, even if they were forgettable ones. My problem is directed towards the reference-filled and shared universe fanboy wank IP bullshit.

To be honest, we need to go back to block booking. You want Spider-Man, You need to play West Side Story. 🤷‍♀️
 

my problem is directed towards people (both on the internet and in Hollywood) who fail to understand that Marvel is set up uniquely for that shared universe fan boy wank IP bullshit. They’re basically a little unicorn factory.
 

And when you try to apply what they do to other projects, it fails. Marvel has 75 years of an interconnected universe that they can draw from with their comic book backlog. That’s why it works. Because they’re approaching it as if they’re writing comics.

 

Marvel also took 10 years to set up their universe, and establish themselves in a way where they can just go for ham on Multiverse inner connected storytelling, and most of the Fanbase will roll with it. The big issue with the shared universe is, is that no one’s willing to put in the time to properly nurture them. They just want to go for the big finish immediately because they assume that the big finish is going to give them the most money for the least amount of work.

 

There’s a couple other IPs that probably could pull this off. But most of them have been farmed out to television adaptations, or they just couldn’t manage to do it. 🤷‍♀️

[filmlover]

Any updates from @charlie Jatinder for today? The theater I saw WSS at tonight was really busy (FYI see this thing on the biggest screen you can find because oh man has God Spielberg put together a beautiful cinematic experience).

[Cmasterclay]

I would be fine if it was just Marvel doing this, but Star Wars, Godzilla, Ghostbusters, Fast and Furious, and of course the nearly as big DC movies are all doing the same thing. I'm sure it will happen with Uncharted and Jurassic World and everything else next year too. 

 

I have a theory that Last Jedi and Godzilla 14 are the two big inflection point blockbusters of the decade. My opinions on the IP stuff are what they are, and I love those two movies as creative franchise blockbusters. Almost invariably, the people who disagree with me on the IP stuff hate those two movies with a passion. I really think those two movies can tell you alot about how people process these things (not universally, obvs).

Edited December 12, 2021 by Cmasterclay

[Cappoedameron]

If anything the Box Office drops during the 2nd weekend just goes to show that audiences now are becoming patient to just wait till the movies hit streaming rather than go to the theaters.

 

No Way Home is the first movie in almost half a year that I go see in the theaters. I was patient enough to wait for BW and Shang Chi with no issues. 

 

I also live in the cesspool that is Florida where they think COVID is just a political thing and will go anywhere without a mask so you get my hesitation on going to a theater without wearing at least two masks in this dump of a state.

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Cappoedameron

[Alpha]

57 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

I admit I can probably be condescending towards the superhero people (mostly because I find the idea of liking things because of "references" inane, he says condescendingly), but alot of the IP defense warriors misunderstand what we are complaining about. At least for me, I'm not expecting Holy Motors 2 or something, or for weirdo shit like Annette or Titane to get 20m OW like they never would have. I'm thinking about my favorite stretch of movies ever, from 2005 to 2007. No Country for Old Men, The Departed, Inside Man, Children of Men, History of Violence, Munich, Michael Clayton, Gone Baby Gone, American Gangster, Eastern Promises.....all solid hits of varying degrees built around being star-powered thrillers for adults that balanced awards with box office. Would any of those movies EVER get funded for theatrical release after the year we just had, with all the flops we had like Last Duel and West Side Story? I don't think so.  Maybe the one directed by Marty but that's it. This year has crippled the mid-sized "adult blockbuster", and that's what scares me. I think the more indie fare will be fine, tbh.

Yeah, it's much easier for people to center the debate entirely around this idea of "Marvel vs. A24" because you can conveniently ignore the fact that the marketplace for mid-budget movies made for adult audiences has completely dried up. Now, if a film doesn't cost more than $150 million and doesn't tie into some preexisting IP from people's childhoods than it's strictly an art film with no mainstream appeal. 

[RRA]

It’s weird we’re having this debate when we just had a blockbuster flop this weekend. Thing is with no pandemic, would people have shown up for WSS? I’m not so sure. 

[Ryan Reynolds]

5 minutes ago, RRA said:

It’s weird we’re having this debate when we just had a blockbuster flop this weekend. Thing is with no pandemic, would people have shown up for WSS? I’m not so sure. 

probably not with no a-list stars

[Legion Again]

2022 and 2023 will be very interesting as we can finally start to disentangle pandemic effect from general audience preference shifts. 

[Cap]

15 minutes ago, RRA said:

It’s weird we’re having this debate when we just had a blockbuster flop this weekend. Thing is with no pandemic, would people have shown up for WSS? I’m not so sure. 

I consider myself the target demographic for a movie musical. I had no interest in rushing out this weekend to see it. Why do I need to face the crowds to watch a movie I could watch on TCM On Demand that I’ve seen multiple times? (And to be honest, I’m going to feel the exact same way if Tommy Kali actually gets his Fiddler off the ground.)
 

My aunt and mother also want to go, and both of them are still anti-movies on weekends. I think our plan is to catch it sometime next week. I might go see it and IMAX, but that depends on if we bring our grandmother or not. She cannot make it up the IMAX stairs. 

[BestPicturePlutoNash]

Spielberg isn't what he used to be but he's still one of the few draws as directors. BFG is the only real dud. War Horse with no stars and mediocre by his standards got to 79m. A raved musical wouldn't have struggled to match or greatly top that. I mean, it could still finish around that range nowadays. I would have predicted about 20m OW and 100m DOM--maybe 120m DOM in normal context

 

Dramas, adult prestige films can still perform better than not in winter with proper reviews or buzz (Little Women, The Mule, La La Land, etc) and musicals also tend to hit well enough with great reviews.

Edited December 12, 2021 by BestPicturePlutoNash

[charlie Jatinder]

The box office is suffering from weak slate rather than COVID. 2022 will again be quite under say 2018 or 2019 because slate doesn't look like of $11B year. Before COVID I was already expecting 2020 to be under $10B, had a club on that. 2019 was also terrible if you remove Disney films. 

 

We need studios to do better film wise. Market is there.

[Legion Again]

6 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

The box office is suffering from weak slate rather than COVID. 2022 will again be quite under say 2018 or 2019 because slate doesn't look like of $11B year. Before COVID I was already expecting 2020 to be under $10B, had a club on that. 2019 was also terrible if you remove Disney films. 

 

We need studios to do better film wise. Market is there.

Username strikes again    

[Krissykins]

6 hours ago, Eric Feels Pretty said:

Ariana DeBose the MVP. Her last few scenes at the end were simply chilling.

Agreed. She was incredible throughout. 

[Porthos]

2 hours ago, Alpha said:

Yeah, it's much easier for people to center the debate entirely around this idea of "Marvel vs. A24" because you can conveniently ignore the fact that the marketplace for mid-budget movies made for adult audiences has completely dried up. Now, if a film doesn't cost more than $150 million and doesn't tie into some preexisting IP from people's childhoods than it's strictly an art film with no mainstream appeal. 

 

To be fair, it's not exactly like this is new.  I "fondly" recall all of the handwringing on this board over The Death of the 200m DOM Grosser before the pandemic struck.  Feast or famine was brought up many many times in various discussions.

 

====

 

Ultimately I do think there are too many wild cards/variables at play this year to really say definitively that the picture of the future is a Digitalized Cape Stamping on a Movie-goer's face... forever.  

 

No, the real $64m question is when (or rather whether) the "missing demographics" start coming back to the theaters.  Once that question is solved then I think we have a clearer picture about The Fate of Films At The Theaters In the Mid Term.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Porthos

[titanic2187]

1990s and 2000s is the nearest golden age of moviegoing of Hollywood.

 

We have multiple franchise tentpole thriving , new and old alike such as 007, Jurassic Park, SW prequel, LOTR, HP, Marvel and DC, POTC, transfomer. While tentpoles taking over the main crowd, there was still multiple amateur's project that become iconic hit like Titanic, Gladiator, 300, I am legend, Apollo 13, pretty women, Ghost, wars of the world, the sixth sense or Trumanshow and tons of comedies. We even got some indie hit like My big fat greek wedding, Juno, Slumdog millionaire. Even the MCU or FF that we define for this 2010s was originated in 2000s. 

 

That was the age when the diversity of cinema really strike in.

 

Looking at 2010s, outside of Marvel vs DC, we hardly get any new tentpoles, new universe. Aside from Hunger game series and conjuring universe that become successful hit, almost every attempt launching new world failed. Not to mention the almost extinct amateur projects.  

 

We may see more colour of representation in the industry, but another layer of diversity is gone and waiting for miracle to revive it. 

 

 

[fmpro]

WSS are getting GLOWING reviews here in Denmark. Legs could be strong and run thru January. But then again. Will the older crowd turn out? Im in doubt

[vale900]

15 hours ago, thedast said:

WSS is not surprising i feel like. The buzz just hasn't been there from the get-go. Every trailer release made little noise and the Ansel drama didn't help. Others have said they don't know this movie was for. True too. But really no one asked for this. And I don't get the Marvel shade because this is LITERALLY a remake of a popular film. 

 

Yes, one could argue younger crowds don't care for musicals but I think the bigger problem is the younger crowds don't care for musicals with people they don't care about, which has been the case with DEH and ITH. I see younger folks getting excited about Timothee or Florence Pugh or Tom H  or Greta being attached to  a musical but none of them care for Ansel. It's a semi-dead genre and I think Hollywood has been taking the wrong approach to reviving interest. Forget remakes and broadway shows with no crossover audience, stop trying to entice older millenials and boomers look at maybe a light hearted romance (everyone's being crying about the death of theatrical romcoms after all) with young leads (under 30), a more futuristic or whimsical twist to appeal to those that need that extra spectacle.

 

Remakes are more miss than hit I don't know why we're doing this to ourselves still. 

 

98% of americans doesn't know who the f. Ansel elgort is, you can imagine how much americans know or care about whatever drama involved him on twitter. 

 

The reason this movie has no audience is if you watch the trailer is just west side story. You don't see anything new you haven't seen in the original or in in the theater versions. You have already seen it over and over. Not a new exciting factor. 

 

What is the IT factor for this movie for you to invest 150M dollars?. Spielberg making west side story? Come on, E.T happened 40 years ago. That man has a lot of flops even in his golden age. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by vale900

[juni78ukr]

West Side Story started outrageously bad in Russia. On average 3 people per show on Thursday, 5 on Friday and 7 on Satursday. 116k Thursday-Saturday. Around $165-170k for the weekend. Word of mouth is rather good but it doesnt matter with 2 blockbusters opening next week.